Government & Bitcoin - page 60. | Bitcointalksearch.org

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: americanpegasus on September 17, 2015, 02:43:41 AM

Quote from: BobK71 on April 21, 2015, 11:43:57 AM

There is one tried and true way governments can integrate bitcoin and still keep their power, at least for a while: ....

...There are a lot of possibilities, but the basic idea would be the same.

One of the most important posts on Bitcointalk. Pay attention, imho.

I`m afraid of that scenario really.

They could do the same thing as they did with gold.

They create a paper currency 100% backed by bitcoin & redeemable in bitcoin. Then they decrease the backing to 90%, then 50%, then 10%, then 0%, and create a fake bitcoin paper fiat currency, that would end up just like the current ones.

But in the meantime it would surpress bitcoin's growth and price. Just like the gold price is surpressed now with all the certificates and paper derivatives.

However, given that we live in a more and more digital age, this would not work as efficiently as previous fiat schemes. Most people would use the real bitcoin (not me) Cheesy

randy8777

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Quote from: coinplus on September 17, 2015, 12:53:00 AM

Definitely many counties has understood than bitcoin is the new modern innovation beyond government regulations. And may country already recognized bitcoin as investment. So bitcoin has no problem to evolve itself as future financial system.

the governments and financial companies aren't that interest in bitcoin as being a coin. they are heavily investigating the blockchain technology possibly for future use. that alone gives me a great feeling.

americanpegasus

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Quote from: BobK71 on April 21, 2015, 11:43:57 AM

There is one tried and true way governments can integrate bitcoin and still keep their power, at least for a while: ....

...There are a lot of possibilities, but the basic idea would be the same.

One of the most important posts on Bitcointalk. Pay attention, imho.

coinplus

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Definitely many counties has understood than bitcoin is the new modern innovation beyond government regulations. And may country already recognized bitcoin as investment. So bitcoin has no problem to evolve itself as future financial system.

Dotakels

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Quote from: freeyourmind on September 11, 2015, 11:50:28 AM

Quote from: Dotakels on September 11, 2015, 08:07:07 AM

Quote from: freeyourmind on September 10, 2015, 11:01:28 PM

Quote from: Gyfts on September 10, 2015, 08:05:08 PM

Quote from: freeyourmind on August 27, 2015, 05:18:24 PM

Quote from: Gyfts on August 25, 2015, 05:09:20 PM

Quote from: misterycoins on July 31, 2015, 06:40:50 PM

Bitcoins will be hard for them to stop without shutting down the entire internet. Should a government act against bitcoin, it would drive the price through the roof.

The government of first world countries would never want their beloved currency to go to waste. They are already acting against it. They can't fully go through with it, however. It's a decentralized currency. The only possible outlet they have is putting place laws and regulation that make it harder to obtain or trade. NYC bitcoin LBC exchanges have pretty much been banned because you need a license (which is hard to obtain) in order to purchase/trade bitcoin. I wouldn't be surprised if more came.

I think there is a lot more difficulty in trading bitcoin with a fiat currency, as the fiat part can be tracked without too much trouble, and as long as financial institutions/banks carry out the government's will, it can make it a chore to trade. What is very difficult to control however, would be bitcoin being used to buy and sell actual goods and services. It is very effective at doing that, whether the government chooses to act against it or not. In fact if they choose to be against it, then they will force bitcoin users to operate outside of the law, and that means that they won't be able to capture any tax revenue from sales.

The IRS already wants people to put bitcoin apart of their income if they have any. So it's not like people aren't already escaping the laws of the US tax system. Regardless, I would have to disagree about trading with Bitcoin and fiat currencies. In my opinion trading with BTC is much more easier than fiat currencies because of the fraud associated with sellers and fiat currencies. I'd only accept bitcoin when possible if I were to sell anything, especially online. I wouldn't have to worry about any type of bullshit going on with my money in terms of fees, chargebacks, ect. PayPal specifically coming to mind in terms of ecommerce and online dealings, they do nothing but rob you of your money.

I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I am talking about trading/exchanging funds between bitcoin and fiat (x bitcoin for y USD or vise versa). Without fiat transactions, how is the government going to keep track of your bitcoin transactions? It wouldn't be within their line of sight to know how much bitcoin you have.

I know what is your point, you only want to say is, bitcoin is only depending on fiat money and if theres no fiat money bitcoin will be useless, you only change your money into digital so that you can have an easy transaction.

I'm probably not explaining myself well enough. I'm talking from the perspective of (the government) tracking people with bitcoin and bitcoin transactions. That tracking can only be done if you are exchanging your bitcoin with fiat (not cash), so that there will be a record with your bank. Other bitcoin purchases that are not taxed, wouldn't be traceable.

So in the even that the government outlawed bitcoin, I think you'd still be able to use it as long as you don't have transactions between your bitcoin account and your fiat bank account.

How you can exchange your bitcoin into fiat but not in cash? through exchanging your coins into fiat and put it into your bank account? how? because all i know that you can only exchange your bitcoin if you exchange it into a cash and if you exchange it through load it can also track you.

okae

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northern exposure

Quote from: RealBitcoin on September 11, 2015, 11:53:52 AM

We can all be friends, no need to fight against eachother.

that's the wish of lot of people, but you know, that's the perfect scenario in a perfect world and that's not the case...

the main infrastructure didn't work i mean about politic, etc etc, the only way that bitcoin could work is if people start to open and change his mind before governments start to care about it, and beleive me, goverments already care about bitcoins...

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on September 10, 2015, 12:47:10 PM

The US politicians's first decision was to accept bitcoin as a means of payment for campaign donations.

It's obvious what politicians want, campaign donations!

They will like bitcoin because it will make them easier to accept donations, there is no reason why they would ban it. The sooner the politicians realize this the better it will be fir bitcoin

You dont understand guys. Bitcoin wont be banned, all people love bitcoin: banks, politicians, businessman, average Joe.

We can all be friends, no need to fight against eachother.

freeyourmind

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Quote from: Dotakels on September 11, 2015, 08:07:07 AM

Quote from: freeyourmind on September 10, 2015, 11:01:28 PM

Quote from: Gyfts on September 10, 2015, 08:05:08 PM

Quote from: freeyourmind on August 27, 2015, 05:18:24 PM

Quote from: Gyfts on August 25, 2015, 05:09:20 PM

Quote from: misterycoins on July 31, 2015, 06:40:50 PM

Bitcoins will be hard for them to stop without shutting down the entire internet. Should a government act against bitcoin, it would drive the price through the roof.

The government of first world countries would never want their beloved currency to go to waste. They are already acting against it. They can't fully go through with it, however. It's a decentralized currency. The only possible outlet they have is putting place laws and regulation that make it harder to obtain or trade. NYC bitcoin LBC exchanges have pretty much been banned because you need a license (which is hard to obtain) in order to purchase/trade bitcoin. I wouldn't be surprised if more came.

I think there is a lot more difficulty in trading bitcoin with a fiat currency, as the fiat part can be tracked without too much trouble, and as long as financial institutions/banks carry out the government's will, it can make it a chore to trade. What is very difficult to control however, would be bitcoin being used to buy and sell actual goods and services. It is very effective at doing that, whether the government chooses to act against it or not. In fact if they choose to be against it, then they will force bitcoin users to operate outside of the law, and that means that they won't be able to capture any tax revenue from sales.

The IRS already wants people to put bitcoin apart of their income if they have any. So it's not like people aren't already escaping the laws of the US tax system. Regardless, I would have to disagree about trading with Bitcoin and fiat currencies. In my opinion trading with BTC is much more easier than fiat currencies because of the fraud associated with sellers and fiat currencies. I'd only accept bitcoin when possible if I were to sell anything, especially online. I wouldn't have to worry about any type of bullshit going on with my money in terms of fees, chargebacks, ect. PayPal specifically coming to mind in terms of ecommerce and online dealings, they do nothing but rob you of your money.

I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I am talking about trading/exchanging funds between bitcoin and fiat (x bitcoin for y USD or vise versa). Without fiat transactions, how is the government going to keep track of your bitcoin transactions? It wouldn't be within their line of sight to know how much bitcoin you have.

I know what is your point, you only want to say is, bitcoin is only depending on fiat money and if theres no fiat money bitcoin will be useless, you only change your money into digital so that you can have an easy transaction.

I'm probably not explaining myself well enough. I'm talking from the perspective of (the government) tracking people with bitcoin and bitcoin transactions. That tracking can only be done if you are exchanging your bitcoin with fiat (not cash), so that there will be a record with your bank. Other bitcoin purchases that are not taxed, wouldn't be traceable.

So in the even that the government outlawed bitcoin, I think you'd still be able to use it as long as you don't have transactions between your bitcoin account and your fiat bank account.

Dotakels

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Activity: 490

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Quote from: freeyourmind on September 10, 2015, 11:01:28 PM

Quote from: Gyfts on September 10, 2015, 08:05:08 PM

Quote from: freeyourmind on August 27, 2015, 05:18:24 PM

Quote from: Gyfts on August 25, 2015, 05:09:20 PM

Quote from: misterycoins on July 31, 2015, 06:40:50 PM

Bitcoins will be hard for them to stop without shutting down the entire internet. Should a government act against bitcoin, it would drive the price through the roof.

The government of first world countries would never want their beloved currency to go to waste. They are already acting against it. They can't fully go through with it, however. It's a decentralized currency. The only possible outlet they have is putting place laws and regulation that make it harder to obtain or trade. NYC bitcoin LBC exchanges have pretty much been banned because you need a license (which is hard to obtain) in order to purchase/trade bitcoin. I wouldn't be surprised if more came.

I think there is a lot more difficulty in trading bitcoin with a fiat currency, as the fiat part can be tracked without too much trouble, and as long as financial institutions/banks carry out the government's will, it can make it a chore to trade. What is very difficult to control however, would be bitcoin being used to buy and sell actual goods and services. It is very effective at doing that, whether the government chooses to act against it or not. In fact if they choose to be against it, then they will force bitcoin users to operate outside of the law, and that means that they won't be able to capture any tax revenue from sales.

The IRS already wants people to put bitcoin apart of their income if they have any. So it's not like people aren't already escaping the laws of the US tax system. Regardless, I would have to disagree about trading with Bitcoin and fiat currencies. In my opinion trading with BTC is much more easier than fiat currencies because of the fraud associated with sellers and fiat currencies. I'd only accept bitcoin when possible if I were to sell anything, especially online. I wouldn't have to worry about any type of bullshit going on with my money in terms of fees, chargebacks, ect. PayPal specifically coming to mind in terms of ecommerce and online dealings, they do nothing but rob you of your money.

I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I am talking about trading/exchanging funds between bitcoin and fiat (x bitcoin for y USD or vise versa). Without fiat transactions, how is the government going to keep track of your bitcoin transactions? It wouldn't be within their line of sight to know how much bitcoin you have.

I know what is your point, you only want to say is, bitcoin is only depending on fiat money and if theres no fiat money bitcoin will be useless, you only change your money into digital so that you can have an easy transaction.

freeyourmind

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 252

Quote from: Gyfts on September 10, 2015, 08:05:08 PM

Quote from: freeyourmind on August 27, 2015, 05:18:24 PM

Quote from: Gyfts on August 25, 2015, 05:09:20 PM

Quote from: misterycoins on July 31, 2015, 06:40:50 PM

Bitcoins will be hard for them to stop without shutting down the entire internet. Should a government act against bitcoin, it would drive the price through the roof.

The government of first world countries would never want their beloved currency to go to waste. They are already acting against it. They can't fully go through with it, however. It's a decentralized currency. The only possible outlet they have is putting place laws and regulation that make it harder to obtain or trade. NYC bitcoin LBC exchanges have pretty much been banned because you need a license (which is hard to obtain) in order to purchase/trade bitcoin. I wouldn't be surprised if more came.

I think there is a lot more difficulty in trading bitcoin with a fiat currency, as the fiat part can be tracked without too much trouble, and as long as financial institutions/banks carry out the government's will, it can make it a chore to trade. What is very difficult to control however, would be bitcoin being used to buy and sell actual goods and services. It is very effective at doing that, whether the government chooses to act against it or not. In fact if they choose to be against it, then they will force bitcoin users to operate outside of the law, and that means that they won't be able to capture any tax revenue from sales.

The IRS already wants people to put bitcoin apart of their income if they have any. So it's not like people aren't already escaping the laws of the US tax system. Regardless, I would have to disagree about trading with Bitcoin and fiat currencies. In my opinion trading with BTC is much more easier than fiat currencies because of the fraud associated with sellers and fiat currencies. I'd only accept bitcoin when possible if I were to sell anything, especially online. I wouldn't have to worry about any type of bullshit going on with my money in terms of fees, chargebacks, ect. PayPal specifically coming to mind in terms of ecommerce and online dealings, they do nothing but rob you of your money.

I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I am talking about trading/exchanging funds between bitcoin and fiat (x bitcoin for y USD or vise versa). Without fiat transactions, how is the government going to keep track of your bitcoin transactions? It wouldn't be within their line of sight to know how much bitcoin you have.

Gyfts

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Quote from: freeyourmind on August 27, 2015, 05:18:24 PM

Quote from: Gyfts on August 25, 2015, 05:09:20 PM

Quote from: misterycoins on July 31, 2015, 06:40:50 PM

Bitcoins will be hard for them to stop without shutting down the entire internet. Should a government act against bitcoin, it would drive the price through the roof.

The government of first world countries would never want their beloved currency to go to waste. They are already acting against it. They can't fully go through with it, however. It's a decentralized currency. The only possible outlet they have is putting place laws and regulation that make it harder to obtain or trade. NYC bitcoin LBC exchanges have pretty much been banned because you need a license (which is hard to obtain) in order to purchase/trade bitcoin. I wouldn't be surprised if more came.

I think there is a lot more difficulty in trading bitcoin with a fiat currency, as the fiat part can be tracked without too much trouble, and as long as financial institutions/banks carry out the government's will, it can make it a chore to trade. What is very difficult to control however, would be bitcoin being used to buy and sell actual goods and services. It is very effective at doing that, whether the government chooses to act against it or not. In fact if they choose to be against it, then they will force bitcoin users to operate outside of the law, and that means that they won't be able to capture any tax revenue from sales.

The IRS already wants people to put bitcoin apart of their income if they have any. So it's not like people aren't already escaping the laws of the US tax system. Regardless, I would have to disagree about trading with Bitcoin and fiat currencies. In my opinion trading with BTC is much more easier than fiat currencies because of the fraud associated with sellers and fiat currencies. I'd only accept bitcoin when possible if I were to sell anything, especially online. I wouldn't have to worry about any type of bullshit going on with my money in terms of fees, chargebacks, ect. PayPal specifically coming to mind in terms of ecommerce and online dealings, they do nothing but rob you of your money.

RealBitcoin

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The US politicians's first decision was to accept bitcoin as a means of payment for campaign donations.

It's obvious what politicians want, campaign donations!

They will like bitcoin because it will make them easier to accept donations, there is no reason why they would ban it. The sooner the politicians realize this the better it will be fir bitcoin

freeyourmind

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 252

Quote from: Xenoph0bia on September 10, 2015, 09:40:33 AM

Few countries have already banned the Bitcoin. I think it's a clear sign that this virtual currency can end central banking and control. Money is power and if everyone changes and adapts to bitcoins it could potentially mean we can get our control back. Banks are corrupt and deserves to become obsolete. No more bonuses to bankers, no more transfer fees. I may be wrong though the govt loves power and will do anything they can to get hold of it.

There are so many types of transactions that governments force citizens to use their own currency for though, which keeps the demand of their fiat currencies high. Theoretically bitcoin can work worldwide, but for example taxes are required to be paid in fiat, oil must be sold in USD, etc. which represents a lot of transactions.

Most people still trust their government far more than cryptocurrencies, so I don't think the central banking system is threatened, but I agree it is a terrible system.

lahm-44

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I won't say that government is accepting this kind of things but they are trying to accept it but they want every thing in their under but modern technology is far ahead and limitless for a government and this is what they are afraid

Xenoph0bia

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Few countries have already banned the Bitcoin. I think it's a clear sign that this virtual currency can end central banking and control. Money is power and if everyone changes and adapts to bitcoins it could potentially mean we can get our control back. Banks are corrupt and deserves to become obsolete. No more bonuses to bankers, no more transfer fees. I may be wrong though the govt loves power and will do anything they can to get hold of it.

Amph

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Quote from: Dotakels on September 10, 2015, 07:22:23 AM

Quote from: xhoneyael on September 10, 2015, 05:41:23 AM

Quote from: bornil267645 on April 17, 2015, 12:35:43 PM

The sharing economy is just going to continue to grow, and governments will be challenged to understand and manage its implications while embracing its benefits. However, governments will be at a significant disadvantage if they wait too long and newer technologies and markets will have already been developed that do not follow traditional models. Think of the following: Uber is the world’s largest taxi service and owns no cars. Airbnb provides lodging yet does not own real estate.

How will local governments adapt to these new ways of doing business that are disrupting traditional business models? All we know now is that governments are a long way from even contemplating and accepting this new reality.

as long as bitcoin go in main stream goverment will have no choice but to adopt it..
so right the best is just continue using it until it happen..

No choice? but some country already banned it, because if they not want it? they will ban and they don't care either its mainstream or not. And any government that already adopt it can also ban it for their own reason or because they see that theres something wrong or something not good in their own people.

well it does not matter , people will keep using bitcoin no matter what their GOV will do, it's not like they can ban every desktop or device out there at best they could stop incoming money from outside bank and therefore stop exchange, but if you do it privately you can avoid this

no system is secure there is always a way to get around it

MinerHQ

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Quote from: avatar_kiyoshi on September 08, 2015, 12:32:47 PM

Well bitcoin is transparant, your transaction history will show in public through blockchain, i think the cyber police/people who investigate for cyber crime will caught the crime.

I think they can track the btc address but difficult to find who has send it unless sending provide is personal info to his online wallet company. This is what I know.

MinerHQ

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Quote from: Dotakels on September 10, 2015, 07:22:23 AM

Quote from: xhoneyael on September 10, 2015, 05:41:23 AM

Quote from: bornil267645 on April 17, 2015, 12:35:43 PM

The sharing economy is just going to continue to grow, and governments will be challenged to understand and manage its implications while embracing its benefits. However, governments will be at a significant disadvantage if they wait too long and newer technologies and markets will have already been developed that do not follow traditional models. Think of the following: Uber is the world’s largest taxi service and owns no cars. Airbnb provides lodging yet does not own real estate.

How will local governments adapt to these new ways of doing business that are disrupting traditional business models? All we know now is that governments are a long way from even contemplating and accepting this new reality.

as long as bitcoin go in main stream goverment will have no choice but to adopt it..
so right the best is just continue using it until it happen..

No choice? but some country already banned it, because if they not want it? they will ban and they don't care either its mainstream or not. And any government that already adopt it can also ban it for their own reason or because they see that theres something wrong or something not good in their own people.

Correct if country ban it then whether bitcoin accepted in mainstream or not no difference. Like in some countries paypal is not accepted even though it is so popular payment processor.

Dotakels

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Quote from: xhoneyael on September 10, 2015, 05:41:23 AM

Quote from: bornil267645 on April 17, 2015, 12:35:43 PM

The sharing economy is just going to continue to grow, and governments will be challenged to understand and manage its implications while embracing its benefits. However, governments will be at a significant disadvantage if they wait too long and newer technologies and markets will have already been developed that do not follow traditional models. Think of the following: Uber is the world’s largest taxi service and owns no cars. Airbnb provides lodging yet does not own real estate.

How will local governments adapt to these new ways of doing business that are disrupting traditional business models? All we know now is that governments are a long way from even contemplating and accepting this new reality.

as long as bitcoin go in main stream goverment will have no choice but to adopt it..
so right the best is just continue using it until it happen..

No choice? but some country already banned it, because if they not want it? they will ban and they don't care either its mainstream or not. And any government that already adopt it can also ban it for their own reason or because they see that theres something wrong or something not good in their own people.

xhoneyael

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www.AntiBitcoinTalk.com

Quote from: bornil267645 on April 17, 2015, 12:35:43 PM

The sharing economy is just going to continue to grow, and governments will be challenged to understand and manage its implications while embracing its benefits. However, governments will be at a significant disadvantage if they wait too long and newer technologies and markets will have already been developed that do not follow traditional models. Think of the following: Uber is the world’s largest taxi service and owns no cars. Airbnb provides lodging yet does not own real estate.

How will local governments adapt to these new ways of doing business that are disrupting traditional business models? All we know now is that governments are a long way from even contemplating and accepting this new reality.

as long as bitcoin go in main stream goverment will have no choice but to adopt it..
so right the best is just continue using it until it happen..

Topic: Government & Bitcoin - page 60. (Read 70850 times)