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Topic: [GOX] Crime Scene Investigation, Case #MG744 - page 4. (Read 47015 times)

sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Born to chew bubble gum and kick ass
Yap, but it was no 0.5billion one year before. This means, they must have started it with so much effort long before.

Whether my conspiracy theory (with some of the TBF-circle guys being actors in it) is correct or incorrect, the collapse of Gox must have been planned long before.

How can this plan unfold? With ''there is a conflict of interest between TBF guys'' switched from TRUE to FALSE, you can expect that there will be attempt to help Mark Karpeles.

E.g. a story will be created that he was kidnapped or forced to give up private keys (he is French after all, you should expect a French to give up). A proof will be found to support this story (a number of prominent TBF-circle guys had already posted on dangers of being kidnapped and that they were working on a solution, etc.)

It will be fun to watch all this  Grin
newbie
Activity: 37
Merit: 0
Yap, but it was no 0.5billion one year before. This means, they must have started it with so much effort long before, where BTC were not worth so much USD.
On the other hand, if they prepared it only in the last year, why did we not recognize the sudden "dissappearing" of BTC in the blockchain?
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Born to chew bubble gum and kick ass
True, but I doubt that would be able to plan such an amount of subtle details in the first place.

First of all, this is just a conspiracy theory (therefore I used no names). This theory is probably completely wrong.

You know what, if I were to steal 0.5 billion I would make sure there were many details and that they were subtle  Grin although I wouldn't have been so stupid to have a recovery plan written by a five year old.
newbie
Activity: 37
Merit: 0
True, but I doubt that would be able to plan such an amount of subtle details in the first place.
However, if this was really true and so many ppl were involved, there should be at least some coward, who ist fearfully observing the situation and who will bail out. Dont you think?
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Born to chew bubble gum and kick ass
Please remember, this is only a conspiracy theory. As most conspiracy theories this one is possibly incorrect.

This theory was created because:
- the official MtGox story is plain false in view of facts gathered so far
- the non-official story (Karpeles stole himself or allowed the hack to happen) repeated by some of TBF-circle guys is supported by an orgy of evidence (please see ''Minority report'' to know what I mean by an orgy of evidence) planted by TBF-circle guys themselves, created by them (irc chats between them and Mark -knowingly or unknowingly they themselves had created ''evidence'' that supports their present story) or planted by people they know.

Come one, someone had to sooner or later come up with a conspiracy story in which there are actors from TBF circles.
newbie
Activity: 37
Merit: 0
Well, it would make sence, if there were only few members in the TBF. But there is a whole pile of members and you really believe, none of them would get cold feet now and would bail out by now?
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Born to chew bubble gum and kick ass
What is the difference between communities conspiracies and yours?

1. Community conspiracy theories and non-conspiracy theories are all built with the following parameter:
There is a conflict of interest between TBF members = TRUE


2. My conspiracy theory is built with the following parameter:
There is a conflict of interest between TBF members = FALSE


__________________________________________________

People who create conspiracy theories are often described as fruitcakes. I think in most cases they are fruitcakes.

When you steal USD 5,000 you probably do not have to conspire. When you steal USD 5,000,000 you probably have to conspire with someone. When you steal USD 500,000,000 there is no way you can do it without conspiring with many people.

Mark Karpeles owning a gold egg laying goose, not willing to accept help from TBF-circle guys who wanted to make his exchange safer? Hackers stealing USD 500,000,000? Come on ...
newbie
Activity: 37
Merit: 0
Today I have written two letters to both of the defending attorneys of Mt.Gox and i would really like you to do the same.
They must nur neglect their duty to answer you general questions about the Mt.Gox-case, i.e. whether there was already some offcial claim at Japanese authorities or not.

I totally admit, that we have to make sure, that some offcials are already involved, since concerning the lies Karpeles is only amenable to law not to us (the community) and he can simply proceed lying to people as long as they are no official persons of Japanese law.

Have you written these letter in Japanese? Are you a native speaker?

Nope, I am not. My aunt and my uncle are. They both are living in Tokyo, but I doubt, that they have ever heard about BTC, despite maybe in the recent newspaper-history.
I wrote these letters to the Mt.Gox-lawyers, which have an English impressum and contact information on their website. So I must believe, that they are familiar to this language...

What is the difference between communities conspiracies and yours?
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Born to chew bubble gum and kick ass
Hey Loozik, after reading some of your posts in different threads for me you sound rather keen in bringing light into the real OFFICIAL situation in Japan.

I am keen to be informed about FACTUAL situation of what happened and what happens.

1. For many months I had a theory that problems at Gox were caused by Gox being an aquisition target and I defended Karpeles and Gox. I thought all these Kolin Burges guys were just paid by someobody who wanted to take over Gox in a hostile way: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5157547 When two-bit-idiot released the recovery plan I simply laughed - you don't write recovery plans like this! One page of financial data. LOL. This recovery plan was a fake - it couldn't have been written by an employee of an advisory firm. There should have been many pages with financial data (including projections). If you ever had anything to do with financial analysis, banking, accounting, you'd new it was a fake (ask a friend who works in banking). The recovery plan looked as if written by a five year old.

2. Then shit came out and trading was halted. The ''official'' story was published by Mark Karpeles on Gox's website (possible hack and theft). At first I wanted TBF to investigate this hack: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494146.0;all as I really believed there was a hack. As I was evaluating the charts however, I concluded that most of the assets were already gone before the supposed hack happened.

3. Naturally, when you arrive at the conclusion that you were lied to / that the official story was incorrect, you - if you are inquisitive - you try to re-create the factual story based on facts and evidence (ideally) within your knowledge. If you don't have facts and evdence, you look for them. If you can't find it, you make conspiracy theories.

4. Evidence / facts / reasonings were:
- a massive flood of ''leaks'' and ''evidence'' happened - my gut feeling is that if you are a hacker, you want to keep your operation small; you don't create lots of documents that someone can trace back to you and you do not leak them coincidently when your hack happens, therefore there was not a hack; leaks and evidences were produced to cover somebodys' asses;
- chart analysis led me to conclude there was a transfer of assets out of Gox ahead of the supposed hack and theft;
- apart from eliminating unknown hackers, I also eliminated governments: hacking to steal is not their modus operandi (they extort wealth, not steal wealth);
- the only conclusion was that Gox was drained of fiat and coins by insiders and that Gox collapse was orchestrated in advance by Mark's friends, and that these leaks were a distraction to blind us from what was happening and from what would be happening.

5. Have you ever met conflicting politicians in your life? They quarell with each other in the parliament, they sue each other in front of the cameras. But they do not quarell in private lives. They are friends in private lives. They only run a show for you to decide which of them represents you better, they run the show with one goal in their mind: to get your money.

6. What if the quarells between guys from TBF were fake / staged as as well? What if Karpeles and TBF guys are in fact friends in private lives? What would their goal be I wonder? What if there never was a real conflict of interest between members of TBF? - if these assumptions are true, then - conspiracy theory - at some point in time one could expect that masses would be robbed...

7. When masses are robbed by politicians, there are always calls for removing the bad old filthy generation of politicians. And these calls are answered - old greedy politicians leave the stage with cases full of cash and retire happily, and the younger politicians who supposedly opposed the old ones make it to the top. Then after a few years the story is repeated.

8. What if TBF is just a show for the masses?



Today I have written two letters to both of the defending attorneys of Mt.Gox and i would really like you to do the same.
They must nur neglect their duty to answer you general questions about the Mt.Gox-case, i.e. whether there was already some offcial claim at Japanese authorities or not.

I totally admit, that we have to make sure, that some offcials are already involved, since concerning the lies Karpeles is only amenable to law not to us (the community) and he can simply proceed lying to people as long as they are no official persons of Japanese law.

Have you written these letter in Japanese? Are you a native speaker?
newbie
Activity: 37
Merit: 0
17:23:31   yerp  Aido: he could of done it, but he won't tell us.   A few of us have already filed ones separately in Tokyo against Mark/Gox.

Do we know which precinct -> police officers and prosecutors are handling / investigating against Mark/Gox?

Do we know if these police officers and / or prosecutors speak English?

Do we know what measures were taken against Mark/Gox (passport taken away, etc.)?

Hey Loozik, after reading some of your posts in different threads for me you sound rather keen in bringing light into the real OFFICIAL situation in Japan.
Today I have written two letters to both of the defending attorneys of Mt.Gox and i would really like you to do the same.
They must nur neglect their duty to answer you general questions about the Mt.Gox-case, i.e. whether there was already some offcial claim at Japanese authorities or not.

I totally admit, that we have to make sure, that some offcials are already involved, since concerning the lies Karpeles is only amenable to law not to us (the community) and he can simply proceed lying to people as long as they are no official persons of Japanese law.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
American1973
My friend when btc catches a cold, litecoin get's pneumonia, most other coins are either dead or on life-support.    

Trust is what enables the protocol to scale, without the trust mechanism only a few tech-heads around the world will use the protocol, via P2P, OT, and the like.

None of that is worth VC money, or attractive to associated service companies ... long story short, if the system wasn't created with built-in trust, isn't reinforced by trust, or trust cannot be guaranteed then it will never scale.  

The BTC community, and by extension the whole cryptocurrency industry must prove that trust reasonably exists within the btc system for it to survive.

If done right, the cryptocurrency industry can produce TRILLIONAIRES not just millionaires, or billionaires.  

So true, thanks very much for saying it.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 501
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
American1973
Just by the evidence I see on this one thread so far I have already determined that it was EXTREMELY easy for Mt Gox to have GIVEN IN to the enormous temptation to steal the funds from himself.  He saw so many scams, he saw it go uncorrected, and unpunished for years.  He clearly wrestled with the good and bad thoughts for quite some time, but probably found himself siding with bad more often than good.  It's very likely that this was his wacky retirement plan since the last time he screwed the community.  

But here's the thing, now that a half billion is gone, the system is lined up for BTC-e to be next, and to take it to a higher level.   But unless they do it within the next few months it will likely be no more btc because the market is shrinking down to nothing.  

Who would think $800+ would be the high for 2014 when in 2013 projections were $50K+ btc for 2014?  

The system simply cannot tolerate any more mass blunders or plunders, that's why the money must be found AND the exchanges must initiate massive change.

I agree with your salient analysis, but would also add this bit:  BTC-e isn't the same because they have other crypto, I mean, I have very little BTC there but I do have a few LTC there.  So your comparison does bear a bit more discussion, but I am not worried about btc-e because their product is and was far superior to Gox imo.  I never used Gox but a tiny bit, never verified.  But I do use BTC-e and I have no problem with them. 

But your point is valid, how much outright theft (even if by the holy FBI themslefes) can a blockchain bear?

Oh well, even if BTC goes south I have divested into other blockchains as well, I believe in cryptocoin so really it is just a question of where the money flows.  I wouldn't be surprised also, if the BTC blockchain is suddenly managed by better people.  I suspect they might fight to bring back SR?  I myself felt that BTC was synonymous with freedom but also there needs to be a self-policing factor, like what they tried to do by hahaha supposedly threatening some dude's life.  Well, that's kinda okay if it was the dude who stole 800k coins from Gox, let that asshole be cut down slowly.  But also the self policing is NOT transparent, so it is like SR = freedom = black market money ...And now that's not only over, but the gag orders and lawyer-feast is causing all coins to be snatched up or captured by law enforcement actors.

I don't agree that this was his retirement plan, lol.  He'd have to be as stupid as fuck to think that.  I think he is acting like a captured pawn, totally unafraid so long as he obeys the cops who hold his nutsack.  Just like Sabu who got turned right around and used like a little bitch and then what? 

I appreciate how you pointed out that he would have been able to watch the previous fiascos and think to himself, "Hmmm..."  Haha, you really described that to a t.  It is possible, but I just think he's being weak and cooperating with the strength and the strength is the FBI prosecuting what they call "The Holy Drug War of Earth 21st Century".  They have the power to snatch up another 1 million bitcoins in a similar way.  I bet in the end it might be tremendously profitable for some clever rogue agent or lawyer or gangster.  Yes my friend, you make great points about how crime goes unpunished on this world.  It sure does.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 501
coinjoin and or any other company that is found to be complicit in any activity to defraud the bitcoin community will be subject to both the community and or various authorities

in the case of mixers if you can determine that any such funds have entered such mixer it shall be sufficient evidence to hold such mixer up for public condemnation.

The fight against money laundering goes on on all fronts.  Call it what you will, but there will always be tumblers and laundromats to wash the shit from people's undies haha.  Washing out blood and shit from clothing actually has made fortunes.  All laundries serve good purpose, because they do not ask where blood or shit comes from.  Cheesy  but you are right man, screw the coin thieves, they aren't like pizzarias and chinese restaurants laundering cash, this is way way worse.  And yet, the fact that the FBI has locked up 10% of bitcoin without much ado, means coin tumbling will remain a viable defense for anyone who sees the FBI for what it is: A non Constitutional entity which has no business stealing the world's wallets.  So, until the FBI stands up and become responsible for their thefts, and also the fraud of the drug war be repudiated, then maybe regular people can feel safe, but not today.  So, tumblers are still good and I want them to work, not because I am a dogshit coinstealing thief, but because I would rather let the thief get away and protect the 100 innocents who he doesn't care about, and whose coins also get robbed/locked away.  So, it is complicated but yes my coinbrother, speak your rage and solutions, the audience is listening.


Just by the evidence I see on this one thread so far I have already determined that it was EXTREMELY easy for Mt Gox to have GIVEN IN to the enormous temptation to steal the funds from himself.  He saw so many scams, he saw it go uncorrected, and unpunished for years.  He clearly wrestled with the good and bad thoughts for quite some time, but probably found himself siding with bad more often than good.  It's very likely that this was his wacky retirement plan since the last time he screwed the community.  

But here's the thing, now that a half billion is gone, the system is lined up for BTC-e to be next, and to take it to a higher level.   But unless they do it within the next few months it will likely be no more btc because the market is shrinking down to nothing.  

Who would think $800+ would be the high for 2014 when in 2013 projections were $50K+ btc for 2014?  

The system simply cannot tolerate any more mass blunders or plunders, that's why the money must be found AND the exchanges must initiate massive change.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 501
There's a rumor that the remaining Gox coins are being anonymized, possibly using CoinJoin. Anyone can confirm this?

coinjoin and or any other company that is found to be complicit in any activity to defraud the bitcoin community will be subject to both the community and or various authorities

in the case of mixers if you can determine that any such funds have entered such mixer it shall be sufficient evidence to hold such mixer up for public condemnation.



coinjoin is not a company, but a type of bitcoin transfer. You can do that without any company cooperating https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/coinjoin-bitcoin-privacy-for-the-real-world-279249

thanks for the correction,  given what I read about coinjoin at: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/coinjoin-bitcoin-privacy-for-the-real-world-279249  such action simply provides additional corroborating documentation

 
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
American1973
coinjoin and or any other company that is found to be complicit in any activity to defraud the bitcoin community will be subject to both the community and or various authorities

in the case of mixers if you can determine that any such funds have entered such mixer it shall be sufficient evidence to hold such mixer up for public condemnation.

The fight against money laundering goes on on all fronts.  Call it what you will, but there will always be tumblers and laundromats to wash the shit from people's undies haha.  Washing out blood and shit from clothing actually has made fortunes.  All laundries serve good purpose, because they do not ask where blood or shit comes from.  Cheesy  but you are right man, screw the coin thieves, they aren't like pizzarias and chinese restaurants laundering cash, this is way way worse.  And yet, the fact that the FBI has locked up 10% of bitcoin without much ado, means coin tumbling will remain a viable defense for anyone who sees the FBI for what it is: A non Constitutional entity which has no business stealing the world's wallets.  So, until the FBI stands up and become responsible for their thefts, and also the fraud of the drug war be repudiated, then maybe regular people can feel safe, but not today.  So, tumblers are still good and I want them to work, not because I am a dogshit coinstealing thief, but because I would rather let the thief get away and protect the 100 innocents who he doesn't care about, and whose coins also get robbed/locked away.  So, it is complicated but yes my coinbrother, speak your rage and solutions, the audience is listening.
member
Activity: 63
Merit: 10
There's a rumor that the remaining Gox coins are being anonymized, possibly using CoinJoin. Anyone can confirm this?

coinjoin and or any other company that is found to be complicit in any activity to defraud the bitcoin community will be subject to both the community and or various authorities

in the case of mixers if you can determine that any such funds have entered such mixer it shall be sufficient evidence to hold such mixer up for public condemnation.



coinjoin is not a company, but a type of bitcoin transfer. You can do that without any company cooperating https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/coinjoin-bitcoin-privacy-for-the-real-world-279249
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 501
There's a rumor that the remaining Gox coins are being anonymized, possibly using CoinJoin. Anyone can confirm this?

coinjoin and or any other company that is found to be complicit in any activity to defraud the bitcoin community will be subject to both the community and or various authorities

in the case of mixers if you can determine that any such funds have entered such mixer it shall be sufficient evidence to hold such mixer up for public condemnation.

legendary
Activity: 2170
Merit: 1094
There's a rumor that the remaining Gox coins are being anonymized, possibly using CoinJoin. Anyone can confirm this?
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Born to chew bubble gum and kick ass
17:23:31   yerp  Aido: he could of done it, but he won't tell us.   A few of us have already filed ones separately in Tokyo against Mark/Gox.

Do we know which precinct -> police officers and prosecutors are handling / investigating against Mark/Gox?

Do we know if these police officers and / or prosecutors speak English?

Do we know what measures were taken against Mark/Gox (passport taken away, etc.)?
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