Topic: [Group Buy]12 KNCminer Jupiter's 15 Sold [Closed] Jupiter Pool - page 10. (Read 75560 times)

So where the hell is he then, answering the crew doesn't get more imperative than right now, ffs

"I was on business over the weekend", I really hope it's not going to sound like that after yet another failed week without payments.


This just plain sucks and any points for style in coordination will NOT be given. Only thing missing is he f*cking defaults and goes to hiding in some Canada woods.

Well atleast the man is balls deep in his own soup so the risk isn't the biggest.


By the way he was calling around all those entities concerning our GB in some ways, he called KNC regarding the compensation for delays and some techies when they went AWOL, maybe it's time for someone to call him, only thing needed is knowing the details that are missing and preferably have english as first language.

So who's up for it?

-edit I now see a trip to his place is forming, the more communications the merrier, maybe sit down his lap to be sure. I can probably speak for me and my venture bud that we could give some btc from our part of all the unpaid dividends, when they arrive

These sound like a good way of going forward. I can also understand that some form of compensation for the trip would be in order. If possible, part of a dividend payout can go to towards this purpose, or Soniq can split / give up a part of the management fee.

I find proposed timelines reasonable. Soniq, your feedback on proposed timelines is required

Agree with the suggestion and perhaps 50% of the 2 week dividends shoud be kept as a reserve for corrections if any needed (corrections should be done once books are checked)

This is a good suggestion, Ben and am I willing to sponsor part of the trip (share the cost with whoever else is volunteer to sponsor as well).
BTW, I own a small amount of shares (400), but as per my own (probably not 100% accurate) calculation, I am still BTC1+ short in div payments so far. I would rather prefer "donating" this 1 BTC for having the books clear and transparent.

Ben, I have also checked your excel file and it looks OK. It is also pretty easy to maintain going forward, perhaps a few fields would need to be added (such as hosting cost), but this is very easy.
I am also willing to collaborate checking the books.

and yes...

It's not that hard to do it right for Soniq, but he has to take the first step and COMMUNICATE.

I don't agree. Checking the books should be done before the end of January, preferable even within a week. Soniq will have to communicate soon, or else ...
To speed things up and keep it friendly here, Soniq needs to reply in this thread this weekend. He will have to communicate and together with his participants make a plan to get this behind us. After all the problems have been solved he'll have to use a simpler method of calculating dividends, supply his participants with all the information required to validate his management of the GBs and pay dividend on a predetermined regular base.

After the check of the bookkeeping, all findings have to be published here and corrected. Participants should check the findings and if they don't agree, they should say so. All this should be done before the end of January. In the mean time, I would like to strongly suggest to pay at least 50% of the dividend according to the spreadsheet I made, which didn't got any comment from any participant that the numbers are wrong.

As far as I know, Soniq lives in the UK. It's easy for me to buy a ticket, go there and check the books with him on a weekend. (I think face-to-face works better than online). MilkyLep also offered to check the books, so at least two participants can do this for the group. Milkylep, living in the USA can validate the work of Soniq and me after the check of the bookkeeping has been done.

It's not that hard to do it right for Soniq, but he has to take the first step and COMMUNICATE.

I'm willing to look over the numbers and check the books either tomorrow on my day off or sometime next week, the more of us that double check the better obviously.

I can find the excel sheet but I'll need some starting data and baseline figures from soniq, as we've been requesting from the start...

Checking the books is a good thing, but it could mean we get our next dividend after 2-3 or more months based on Soniq availability till now. Soniq changed the excel workbook with payment data 3 or 4 times and the payment data in the different workbooks was different and inconsistent (someone keeping a copy of each of the workbooks?). There were some compensation payments in the first few payments, because based on the Soniq calculations some of the members were payed more then it should and some were payed less. The last one (you were working on it) looked much more correct then the other ones, so when I saw it I thought it's OK now and all the problems are sorted. I own less the 0.02% of this GB and my payments are small and that's why I didn't took a good look at the calculations. I was sure whoever made a GB could make a basic and simple calculations and distribute the right amount to the GB members. How can we speed the things up, so we don't wait months for the next dividend?

No, I would strongly like to suggest to have someone check the books before we move on with a clean slate. I saw too many things in the big sheet that I can't explain. I am NOT saying Soniq is taking advantage of anything.

First of all, Soniq needs to reply in this thread to the questions asked by various participants.
Then we need to find a way to get a 100% correct bookkeeping of the past, then we can start with a clean slate and have regular dividend payments.

So only thing left clearing up are the two missing dividends? Then eyes on the new horizon? Am I understanding this correclty?

Thanks Ben!

Soniq, there are more and more of us who begin to feel concerned. The minimum of what we need is clear answer: WHEN do you think you can answer our questions (about payment dates, BTC mined, NMC mined, additional costs)?

Thanks Ben!!!.

What you explained is what I thought from day one.
Please check and help you all Soniq.
For my part, I am willing to donate whatever you need.

batteries connected Soniq

I think we need someone that can check the bookkeeping Soniq has done till now.
Together they should figure out all the errors and mistakes that have been made, correct them and start with a clean slate with a simple payment method (for example my spreadsheet) and inform the participants the way I indicated.

Thank you Ben for this mighty effort. Now hopefully soniq will use the resources you've laid out for him. This would be a great step towards a solid GB, we still need some additional transparency as others have mentioned imo.

Thx Ben for your effort!

I just deleted my post before I saw your answers. It was full of uninformed/stupid questions and calculations and not worth reading and I found the answers of the questions after writing the message and before reading yours. Thank you for the answers.

EDIT:  I think your calculations are correct and now Soniq can send regular dividends. Thank you.

The reason for two separate sheets is the way I extracted the information from the original sheet. And I am glad I did, since the batch file line length would be close to 8191 when it would be in one sheet, giving one batch file line.

I think GB1 & GB2/GB3 had to start as different stocks because the Jupiters arrived on different moments in time, but you'll have to read the history in this thread to be sure.

Do a search for (100) on the original sheet and look at the amount most people got as their last dividend payment. A lot of them are the same, no matter if they participated in GB1 or GB2/GB3. Still I don't understand how some of them can be different from the 0.12564103 that I see most of the time. BTW, I don't see the amount you mention anywhere: 0.00151285 or 0.151285
 for 100 shares and a lot of people have 100 shares. Like I said, I do see the amount I calculate for 100 shares in my GB1, GB2/GB3 and the original sheet: 0.12564103. To make it easier to follow I added 15BTC on the dividend payment tab to the total BTC mined to be given to the shareholders.

Soniq merged the two separate group buys at a certain moment and from that moment the value of a share was the same. No idea why the payout has been different from what I calculated. Of course one of my assumptions to come to the formulas can be wrong, but the calculations are rather simple. shares owned/total shares * BTC mined(minus management fee) = dividend.

It's all the extra stuff that is going on in the original sheet that is also making it hard to follow (besides the different amounts for the same number of shares).

Soniq should also reply to your questions.

Thanks, I corrected it.

In GB1 and GB2GB3 worksheets in the first line the line continuation character is different then the "same" character on all the other lines:

bitcoind sendmany 18kUSwbSdDRxNowaaPXarZxHDtc1KrLUTt 16LncFsFAApVyur7cBbvViHxRj2ujcq1q8:1.15384615,\
12AkFwCRYdHVasmgmBVe9Q4EuYZ67UYoAx:1.25641026,^
...

Since you asked me to come up with a solution, I had a good look at the Excel sheet you mention. (I should have done this earlier in the GB, but I start by trusting people and give them the benefit of the doubt that they can handle the task they took upon themselves).

The sheet is not only missing the last payment, but also missing the payment of December 02nd.

Let me try to understand an early dividend payment calculation:
GB1: 0.98 * 50 BTC mined * 15/17 / 45000 mined * (169) shares
0.98 - is probably the factor to take 2% management fee into account
50BTC mined is clear
15/17 - is this because GB1 had 15 of the 17 operational machines at that time ? This is not mentioned anywhere in the sheet.
45000 mined ? Probably in total 45000 shares, which is correct given the 450 shares for GB1 x 100 for the move to Bitfunder.
169 - number of shares this participant holds in this GB1

similar for GB2/3: 0.98 * 50 * 2/17 / 33000 mined * (500) shares
2/17 - see explanation for GB1.

The sheet is missing dates on all events, they can be found by looking at the blockchain transaction, but still.
- You should have made a separate sheet for all special events, like the intake of BTC for the GBs, the purchase of the machines, the refunding because of price adjustments, loans, hosting, management fee, share buying/selling between participants. Now part of it is all mixed in one big sheet, totally unclear what's going on, and a lot of information is missing.
- You should have made a new sheet for every dividend payment
- You should have made a sheet for the merge of GB1 and GB2/3, explaining all multiplication factors that are to be used for dividend payment.

I found the following Jupiter group buys in your name:
Jupiter #1-#15, 15 Jupiters: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/group-buy12-kncminer-jupiters-15-sold-closed-jupiter-pool-226319 - 450 shares, x100 when going to Bitfunder
Jupiter #16-#21, 6 Jupiters: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/closedgb-kncminer-jupiter-21-sold-added-to-8-ths-jupiter-pool-242878 - 180 shares \
Jupiter #22-#26, 5 Jupiters: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/closed-gb-kncminer-jupiter-26-sold-added-to-84-ths-jupiter-pool-259660 - 150 shares / x 100 when going to Bitfunder

I created an Excel sheet that can pay all future dividends for both GB1 and GB2/GB3 with two transactions using bitcoind. I strongly suggest to copy this sheet for every new dividend payment you want to do.
This is the sheet I created: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/425227/SoniqDividendPaymentCalculation.xls
I have left the old sheet in it, I suggest to remove it before using it.

How to use it:
1. Check the green fields on the dividend payment tab.
2. Check the number of shares of each member on GB1 and GB2GB3 tab and modify them according to the share buy/sell between members that you received. (Warning! This sheet doesn't take the moment of share buy/sell into account. The number of shares someone owns at the moment the sheet is used determines the dividend. It's the participants responsibility to buy/sell at the 'right' moment). It's Soniqs responsibility to do the dividend payment on predetermined and public known moments.
3. Fill in the yellow fields on the tab "dividend payment" and provide proof of this by copying the blockchain.info link and a link to a screenshot of the pool withdraw page
4a. Go to the GB1 tab and check the red value at the bottom of the list; it should be zero, or else something is wrong. It's a check that the dividend amount available is completely split between the participants. Note! A participant can occur more than once on this list!
4b. Check the total number of shares for each GB. GB1 should be 45000 and GB2/GB3 should be 33000. If not, you made a mistake during processing of the share buy/sell events.
5. Select all the lines in column E, copy them, open a new text file and paste the lines. Save this file as a batch file/shell script. Go to the directory containing bitcoind and execute the script. Dividend payments for GB1 are now done. (The funny character at the end of a line is the line continuation character).
5. Repeat steps 4&5 for GB2.
6. Post the two log files created in this thread and post a link to the saved Excel sheet.

Dividend payments are done and participants can validate what you did.

I urge all the participants to have a look at my Excel sheet and report anything wrong in it and also check the number of shares they see on their BTC address and report any problem to Soniq in a PM.

I haven't talked to Soniq about this sheet, he is free to use it or not.
If it has value to him, he can decide if he wants to reward me for it.

WARNING: Obviously I can not test the scripts that the Excel sheets creates. Soniq should copy the Excel sheet and do a trial with only a few addresses of his own to validate the correct working of the formulas used.

Afaik, the maximum line length of a line in a Windows batch file is 8191. GB1 has the largest line, 5247 characters, so well within the limit.

Comments on this are more than welcome, I am only human!

Update: I added 4b, an extra check of the total number of shares of GB1 and GB2/GB3.

To avoid further escalation of accusations, it would be good to provide below info...

Soniq, we have requested several times a statement of this GB, which should include:
* BTC mined
* Name coin mined
* cost incurred and details/breakdown of this cost
* sum of dividend payouts
* BTC per share

I believe this has nothing to do with the programmer. Since several weeks this information has not been provided.
In fact details of cost incurred have NEVER been published. We do expect that operation of this GB is transparent but it has NOT been so far.

BenTuras has requested a few days ago the excel file with calculations to help out with script for dividend payouts, but this file has not been received (yet).

If the calculations are not ready, please provide a target date by when you intend to share all details - have asked this before as well but no feedback (yet).