Topic: [Group Buy]12 KNCminer Jupiter's 15 Sold [Closed] Jupiter Pool - page 8. (Read 75377 times)

Just made last hosting payment ef47941b789fb5d6dd1525f7365ead66869d344d919610fc07b0a133664030ae

Contacted agibby and will make a dividend payment as soon as he is able, hopefully today or tomorrow.

I'm with Ben on this. WTF is going on? Soniq you are making 2% of this whole thing to start with, and have shown precious little effort in proving that you are not ripping us all off. Give us information we can verify and do it quickly.

Soniq, my question was "Would you please provide amount of bitcoin mined at Gigapool and receiving address"

You have answered half of it, can you answer the other half "amount of bitcoin mined at Gigapool".
We were expecting to see this info in the balance sheet, but it's not.

If a proper balance sheet is difficult to make, at least please answer the questions from GB members. We are spending time to clear up and understand the mess, while you are taking management fees from all of us.

this

We need more details about what you are doing.
How can we validate what you are doing and know that the GB is performing well if you don't give us numbers.

Who has validated the mining income on Gigapool and Bitminter ?
Has someone seen a dated screenshot of the account webpages ?
Validating by looking at transactions is not enough.
There is considerable doubt about the start of the mining, yet you give us little to be convinced everything went honest and you didn't mine on another pool before mining on Gigapool, Eligius and Bitminter.

OK, and what happened to the penalties ? I can see that you deducted them from what you paid the participant paying late, but that spreadsheet is one big mess of multiple dividend payments to all(?) the participants.
AND STILL YOU KEEP ON USING THAT SPREADSHEET. STOP USING IT, GO FOR THE SIMPLE VERSION I MADE, SO WE CAN ALL UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON.

Soniq, you only answered part of my questions of https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4760710
How can the books be balanced if it's so clear that some of the participants never got their refund for the share price/jupiter purchase price difference ?

Why is it so hard to answer all the questions, show that you are honest and want to have the history validated and left behind.
Give us spreadsheets that we can understand, that we can validate, that contains formulas and not just values.
You are making thousands of dollars on these group buys, the least you can do is earn them in an honest way.

Also, you are going to make corrections due to the mistake you made, paying too much dividend.
How can we validate the corrections if the history isn't validated yet?

You should hand over the export of your walllet, just like you did in https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdHRmNnY1Qm9xTWM1aHhyU09sdVRsNFE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=0 on the Balance sheet for all the GB payments. That, together with screen shots of pool webpages, will be the only way that I can validate the books for 99% That remaining last percent will be that we have to trust you not having a second wallet receiving any mining income.

I am getting tired of all the time I spent on this and hardly see any progress on your side Soniq.

Thank you.

Hosting payment is Jan 31, I did not make the Jan 27 th payment to allow for a possible large  exchange rate change for next hosting payment on Jan 31.  Next  dividend payment will be on Jan 31 or Feb 01 depending on agibby schedule.

The Gigapool test went to the  same mining address Eligius is using now.  This can be confirmed by trans ids, that is why I posted that the test was going on.

Late penalty  fees are  for members who did not pay their required hosting fee on time. This did not apply to anyone with their  shares on Bitfunder  or paid their required hosting fees on time.

The books and wallets are balanced now, I am just waiting for last hosting payment to clear up the outstanding mining income.

Please, Soniq, communicate...SOMETHING.
Don't let the efforts of Ben and the other groupbuy members go to waste.

It seems soniq has fallen off the wayside so early in the re-commitment of his group buy.

Perhaps Ben has spoken to him recently and received the additional information needed to complete the audit(s).

Didn't we missed the 27-Jan-2014 due date? Any updates?

Hi Soniq,

Would you please provide amount of bitcoin mined at Gigapool and receiving address.

In your balance sheet you are referring to Eligius and Bitminter, there is no reference to Gigapool.

Please refer to your post from October 14.

Thanks

I didn't receive any dividends from the 32279ab5df9fd2b327500949fd0b5bcadda47d6f36cbf3283dbb11519f506436 (2014-01-21) transaction. Does it mean I was overpaid from the previous dividends?

How can I verify that ?
My point is, too many things are not verifiable and it should be easy to do so.

If that's the case, then it should be clear in the excel sheet and verifiable when doing a check of the books.

85 came from KNC and that leaves another 60 that wasn't mined at Eligius.

It's not "Eligius address", it's just an address set at Eligius to mine/send the BTC to it. Part of the BTC at this address could be mined elsewhere.
The Blockchain (https://blockchain.info/address/1EN3EqqQfqq484WNATFAMA13VXpJuJNv5c) shows us:

I have the first results of the bookkeeping check I have done the last week and a halve. It has been hard, Soniq has helped me now and then but there are still questions unanswered.

First a few questions for Larry:

Eligius address 1EN3EqqQfqq484WNATFAMA13VXpJuJNv5c shows All time total payout: 651.61300674 BTC, spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=29 shows 791.57500405. Can you explain the difference of 140 BTC ? Is that the mistake you made and sent an email about ?

How can I check the total number of BTC mined on bitminter.com ?

Only part of the shareholders got a refund for the difference between share price and jupiter purchase price/30 (prorated column on KNC balance sheet, updated balance sheet tab: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdHRmNnY1Qm9xTWM1aHhyU09sdVRsNFE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=6). For example I can’t find the 2.43255667BTC(according to the KNC balance sheet) I am entitled to in my wallet and it’s also not mentioned on KNC GB Calc, ledger jan 20/14 tab on https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=28.

Probably transaction fee?
1. There is a 0.5btc difference between the claimed column total of prorated and the actual total.
2. Why is this sheet filled with only values and no formulas, which would make it easier to see what the value represent ?
3. There is also a 0.5btc difference on the total paid column.

Book check.
0. Intro
I did a check by using the available information I could find, being spreadsheets and the group buy thread on bitcointalk. I started with GB1, which gave me an advantage since I am participating in it, so I could relate certain payments with my own wallet. I haven’t checked GB2/3 yet and would like to suggest that a participant of GB2/3 does this so he can use his own wallet for reference.
This is the information I used:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=28
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdDVzUTNLcmRJbWFYWTRpUkNkWmoteWc#gid=0
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdHRmNnY1Qm9xTWM1aHhyU09sdVRsNFE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=0
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/group-buy12-kncminer-jupiters-15-sold-closed-jupiter-pool-226319
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1EN3EqqQfqq484WNATFAMA13VXpJuJNv5c


1. GB1, buying of the Jupiters
Overall this has been well recorded in a spreadsheet. My questions are:
1a. There is a difference between the actual purchase price and the total amount paid for shares between the various Jupiters. An attempt has been made to refund the difference, but this looks like an unfinished job. I urge Soniq to have a look at the „updated balance sheet” on https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdHRmNnY1Qm9xTWM1aHhyU09sdVRsNFE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=6 and check the column „prorated balance” against the share price difference payments he has done according to https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=28
1b. I also urge all participants to do the same as I did and check their own information on the two sheets mentioned and compare it to their bitcoin-qt information.

2. Mining
This is where it becomes harder. The starting moment of the mining is unclear, Soniq claims he started about a week later than Tyrion and claims that this explains the huge difference between the performance of this GB compared to theirs. KnC has given 85BTC to compensate for the problems with the hosting, but this is not enough to close the gap. And to make it even worse, there seems to be a difference between the mined amount of BTC recorded in the books and the actual number mined on Eligius. I can not check the amount of BTC mined on Bitminter, since that is not viewable on the website. That’s why I urge Soniq to post dated screen shots of the mined BTC when he calculates the dividends. It could help if I get a .csv of the bitcoin-qt wallet, but Soniq already stated that he also used this wallet for personal stuff and a filtered .csv will still leave uncertainty. In the mean time he has split his personal wallet and the GB wallets.

3. Dividend payment
Even harder is it to understand the calculated dividends. All kind of amounts and calculations(without formulas to make it even harder to understand) can be seen on the sheets and it’s not always clear what the base is for the calculations.
The dividend payments as registered in https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdDVzUTNLcmRJbWFYWTRpUkNkWmoteWc#gid=0 are hard to understand. There are a few payment periods, but some participants are not paid in all periods.
The individual participant payments, as registered in https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=28 are a little bit easier to understand, but are missing descriptions and the order of the rows seems random and not chronological ?!
The sheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdDVzUTNLcmRJbWFYWTRpUkNkWmoteWc#gid=0 contains accumulated dividend payments. The amounts on this sheet are probably accumulations from another sheet, but it’s unclear to me which sheet that is.

4. Hosting payments
Penalty for late hosting payment. Why has this happened ? And who is responsible ? Was the payment late towards KnC, or just a few participants being late?
The hosting payment itself is also not 100% clear. This needs to be registered on a separate sheet, each payment with a date, amount and transaction reference. And the future obligations needs to be registered too with the date due. All this needs to be accompanied with information from KnC about the past and future obligations.

Conclusion.
The bookkeeping has been week and is hard to understand for me. Mixing the personal transactions and the GB transactions has been a huge mistake and makes it impossible for me to do a thorough book checking. Giving me access to the unedited .csv export of the wallet might help, but is still no guarantee. Future payments should be done in separate sheets and based on the suggested sheet I made a few weeks ago. If Soniq chooses this sheet, I will help him include the hosting fee payment and correction due to paying too much dividend. I advise against using external software and only publish accumulated information.

KISS (keep it simple stupid) applies here! Use the Excel sheet I made, we can all understand it.

Hi

Still working on some more details but here is new balance sheet to Jan 20/14

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=31

Will be adding NMC  and updated ledger soon

Here is link to NMC explorer and Bitminter address   http://bitinfocharts.com/namecoin/address/N6eYH9gXketBSdCzCjzg9B9aoAZtoGgBvD

current balance 1,593.75193385 NMC

and the NMC Eligius address http://bitinfocharts.com/namecoin/address/N1p98kiGrodAUhxqKZUCaumQKNxHAWtb1D

current balance  1,786.63575364 NMC

Hi Soniq,

Thank you for getting back to us and for the last dividend payment.
We are glad to see we are making progress and your efforts to catch up are appreciated.

We are looking forward to receiving the final calculations, including amount of bitcoin mined to date and details of costs incurred.

In the meantime I have updated my file with payments received until today:

http://sdrv.ms/L1imNB

to date it still shows 29.9% less payments as compared to addiction GB, which translates in a total of ~163 BTC difference for GB1 only. I am not worried, as I know the last payment was only partial and namecoins have not been paid-out/exchanged into BTC yet.

I do understand that we may not reach exactly 163 BTC to be paid-out for GB1 next week, as a slight difference (positive or negative) will appear due to:
* different mining start dates as you pointed out - I can help with exact delta calculation if needed, please let me know
* hosting cost may also give a slight difference (positive or negative)

Anyway, this should be cleared out once we get the final calculation showing btc mined and cost incurred to date.
Please post the details.

Thanks

You can verify your NMC address here by signing with your GB payment address  http://bitcoinfun.ca/nmcsign/
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BTC address: 1KnNYh2MAkG4AhYmyXeAnLf9e2veHrXKiW
NMC address: NBMjaMGPgdZXSVATmq12XzxakCgwnwDNQj
NMC signed message: G57e6VZ1tEcgaMOPJmiHRUWRGRYWllnV0F8akEUO1s3nG3YB8Dm90DX8AWdQbYzLUNMiU0v3UXE