[Group Buy]12 KNCminer Jupiter's 15 Sold [Closed] Jupiter Pool - page 5.

Plissken

full member

Activity: 251

Merit: 100

Quote from: dutu on February 27, 2014, 01:56:20 PM

Hi aggiby,

It has been verified and concluded that

"the spreadsheet is now up to date and shows 128.752061356 to be paid out"

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5268456

Please let us know when the amount (and the additional mining income post this date) will be paid out to shareholders.

Soniq, I have to warn you that these funds do NOT belong to you and you have no rights to keep these in your possession.

OHHHHHHHHHHH soniq soniq....

LittleD

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 500

StayFocus and LIVE

Quote from: dutu on February 27, 2014, 01:56:20 PM

Hi aggiby,

It has been verified and concluded that

"the spreadsheet is now up to date and shows 128.752061356 to be paid out"

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5268456

Please let us know when the amount (and the additional mining income post this date) will be paid out to shareholders.

Soniq, I have to warn you that these funds do NOT belong to you and you have no rights to keep these in your possession.

ooooooooh boy Sad

dutu

member

Activity: 73

Merit: 10

Hi aggiby,

It has been verified and concluded that

"the spreadsheet is now up to date and shows 128.752061356 to be paid out"

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5268456

Please let us know when the amount (and the additional mining income post this date) will be paid out to shareholders.

Soniq, I have to warn you that these funds do NOT belong to you and you have no rights to keep these in your possession.

BenTuras

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 1001

Can someone please explain all the small amounts I am receiving ?!

20/02/14 03:58 0.02992773
20/02/14 03:58 0.0017733
26/02/14 17:28 0.00145551

COMMUNICATING, It must be a tough skill......

hjlow

newbie

Activity: 37

Merit: 0

to clean this out for once and for all that sounds like a good idea

agibby5

sr. member

Activity: 267

Merit: 250

There's another issue that came up... hosting refunds/penalties and how to handle the 40.7 BTC Larry paid out of his personal account. Currently, this amount is distributed across various GB members directly out of mining income. However, we would need to debit soniq's account for the 40.7 so that it balances with the credits to the member's accounts. At first, I thought it should all go back to soniq, but people did pay into that account (1NaE9oXe9ZkCUrhtEPTFGU4HbUqZXVanGw).

Quote

[9:18:27 PM] agibby5: you got 105 from bitfunder
[9:18:34 PM] agibby5: it was in your own wallet address
[9:18:38 PM] Larry/soniq: yes
[9:18:41 PM] agibby5: you paid that AND 41 of your own BTC to KNC for the initial hosting fee?
[9:18:45 PM] Larry/soniq: yes
[9:19:10 PM] agibby5: and then you booked it as an expense
[9:19:20 PM] agibby5: and took it off the top of the mining income
[9:19:29 PM] Larry/soniq: yes
[9:19:49 PM] agibby5: i feel like your account should be then credited for that 41 btc
[9:20:16 PM] agibby5: but you paid the 146 out of mining income i thought?
[9:20:31 PM] Larry/soniq: well that what I am not sure about? I have a tough time wrapping my head around all the complexities that happened
[9:21:16 PM] Larry/soniq: I paid the 146 BTC out of my original wallet, you cannot sellect a payment address to send payments
[9:21:33 PM] Larry/soniq: so 146 BTC came from the baalnce in my wallet

Here's that transaction of 146 to KNC we're referring to: https://blockchain.info/tx/e8db2d85774fe0c6defe45fb1d7851c2b7cd2fd81a87b6b76981a6ed599ce461

EDIT: I talked to espen about this, and people did pay into the hosting address. Basically, we would need to debit soniq's account for the 40.7 and credit everyone's account for their share of the 40.7 so it balances and has absolutely no impact on the mining income. I deleted the rest of this post as it had severely incorrect information.

agibby5

sr. member

Activity: 267

Merit: 250

Quote from: MilkyLep on February 24, 2014, 04:16:25 PM

Quote from: dutu on February 19, 2014, 02:44:07 PM

Here is the file posted by soniq which I have verified: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=24

I step out and return to find out this is more convoluted than what appeared at first glance.

I take it the prorated amounts still need to be paid out since they are not in the ledger? I fear because I moved share(s) to BF then purchased more my payments could be off, although it becomes increasingly difficult to solve as time goes on.

Soniq, what is your take on the GB1 & GB2 mixture of mining funds from the beginning and how will this be resolved?

We understand things come up, especially family emergencies, but we need to hear a solidified date when this situation will be resolved with a true timeline.

Did you read any of my posts?

MilkyLep

hero member

Activity: 583

Merit: 500

Bitcoin for all & all for Bitcoin

Quote from: dutu on February 19, 2014, 02:44:07 PM

Here is the file posted by soniq which I have verified: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=24

I step out and return to find out this is more convoluted than what appeared at first glance.

I take it the prorated amounts still need to be paid out since they are not in the ledger? I fear because I moved share(s) to BF then purchased more my payments could be off, although it becomes increasingly difficult to solve as time goes on.

Soniq, what is your take on the GB1 & GB2 mixture of mining funds from the beginning and how will this be resolved?

We understand things come up, especially family emergencies, but we need to hear a solidified date when this situation will be resolved with a true timeline.

equipoise

hero member

Activity: 794

Merit: 1000

Monero (XMR) - secure, private, untraceable

^OK. Sorry for bother you on that.

EDIT: I just wonder - if the prorated share price adjustment is payed from the dividends then: Did the members of the GB1, who sold all their shares in BF SNQ.CoinI received such a payment? Then if the BF shareholders don't qualify for such a payment then who received it? Soniq?

agibby5

sr. member

Activity: 267

Merit: 250

Quote from: equipoise on February 24, 2014, 02:13:54 AM

Quote from: agibby5 on February 23, 2014, 09:20:51 PM

I agree. EVERYONE, particularly those who have changed their addresses at some point, should definitely be reviewing their own accounts in the ledger and make sure the payouts have been correct. With that information, it's generally easy to lookup if something was missing, especially where payment addresses have changed. There shouldn't be many of these situations. It appears the change initiated with Ben's addresses was bad timing.

There is no GB1 prorated share price adjustment for my shares too. 1PW6xey6xQex1kJZMkAJvXouoGzeorfqVq

This does not apply to Bitfunder shares

equipoise

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Monero (XMR) - secure, private, untraceable

Quote from: agibby5 on February 23, 2014, 09:20:51 PM

I agree. EVERYONE, particularly those who have changed their addresses at some point, should definitely be reviewing their own accounts in the ledger and make sure the payouts have been correct. With that information, it's generally easy to lookup if something was missing, especially where payment addresses have changed. There shouldn't be many of these situations. It appears the change initiated with Ben's addresses was bad timing.

There is no GB1 prorated share price adjustment for my shares too. 1PW6xey6xQex1kJZMkAJvXouoGzeorfqVq

BenTuras

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Activity: 826

Merit: 1001

Quote from: agibby5 on February 23, 2014, 09:20:51 PM

So basically, it looks like your address was changed as a member of this GB at some point or another. You old one had the amount credited in teh system, but wasn't paid out because the change occurred before the first payout.

Thanks for looking into this.

Are you now managing the group for Larry ?
I fail to understand how a change of address causes a payment not to be done, but never mind.
I will confirm the reception of the prorated balance after I have received it.

agibby5

sr. member

Activity: 267

Merit: 250

Quote from: BenTuras on January 31, 2014, 05:40:57 PM

Quote from: BenTuras on January 30, 2014, 03:43:31 AM

How can the books be balanced if it's so clear that some of the participants never got their refund for the share price/jupiter purchase price difference ?

I ask this again, and now more specific to one participant (it's me):
These are my transactions on the last sheet, that horrid mess on Ledger Jan 20/14:

Code:

1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr 1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr -3.49282052 https://blockchain.info/tx/9074bdc9df9a46ea7f5d296885f66847e0964c92dd4ab4fa3da14eb54dbf91ec
1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr 1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr -10.6937631 https://blockchain.info/tx/ef13b0e1aae1d1fd8a6773a9f222ac5ae1d4122c839976d3dd8a434b1e350c5d
1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr 1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr -3.49282052 https://blockchain.info/tx/29b0b50d92b6bc240a62cccc804f0c40c08a235b27d1677bc5d8240b34ca19c5
1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr 1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr -0.01070447 https://blockchain.info/tx/2b43e9a81196fda1ccbbdae258a519c1dde535a86d3f03a2f45ca6bd68f1958d
1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr 1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr -10.47846154 https://blockchain.info/tx/a218e3583f0571377ef29fded24d47147c6820c6040ec1f07b8c2dd91e96f6d5
1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr 1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr -3.49282051 https://blockchain.info/tx/2aa34458daf0928789629d174424a8dd18e937550e0f49b18b958faeecf8f40e
1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr 1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr -1.78133844 https://blockchain.info/tx/32279ab5df9fd2b327500949fd0b5bcadda47d6f36cbf3283dbb11519f506436
1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr 1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr -3.49282052 https://blockchain.info/tx/4d3ea5ba035605af59e2c2c57089a5f0b1f674e58306345b34d515d8b24ff247
1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr 1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr 4.54066667 GB1: 0.98 * 85 * 15/17 / 45000 compensation * (2780) shares
1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr 1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr 2.67098039 GB1: 0.98 * 50 BTC mined * 15/17 / 45000 mined * (2780) shares
1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr 1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr 24.44974359 0.98 * 700 BTC mined split between 78000 shares. Payment for (2780) shares
1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr 1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr 4.57559487 As of 12/29/2013: 0.98 * 131 BTC mined split between 78000 shares. Payment for (2780) shares
1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr 1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr 0.6985641 As of 01/20/2014: 0.98 * 20 BTC mined split between 78000 shares. Payment for (2780) shares
1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr Sum 0

There is no prorated share price adjustment transaction. Many other participants do have one.

Now have a look at the tab Updated Balance Sheet in the excel sheet KNC Balance sheet. Search my name, Turas and go to column O, prorated. I see an amount of 2.43256 BTC, being the compensation you calculated for me.
If I calculate the compensation, I get this: share price I paid(2.25) -/- the Cost per share(2.159223) * number of shares(25): 25 * (2.25-2.159223) = 2.2694. The compensation you calculated and the one I just specified differ.
1. Can you explain the difference ?
2. Can you show me the transaction in which you refund me the compensation you calculated ?
Thanks.

So basically, it looks like your address was changed as a member of this GB at some point or another. You old one had the amount credited in teh system, but wasn't paid out because the change occurred before the first payout.

It looks like the address in the spreadsheet is this: 19ZdYEyjVCWnGPSqQyinrQXTedCjfAsV8e
Spreadsheet I'm referring to: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdHRmNnY1Qm9xTWM1aHhyU09sdVRsNFE&usp=drive_web#gid=6
But in the ledger is this: 1Ji6RWCLiBDK4mJx5szy8XBiSV3h9feRfr
Ledger I'm referring to: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web#gid=33

I fixed this and it will go out during the next dividend payment.

Quote from: BenTuras on February 10, 2014, 02:23:31 AM

Quote from: MilkyLep on February 10, 2014, 02:11:57 AM

@Ben and dutu, did you ever receive further response to your requests/questions?

None outside the forum messages, which only answer part of the questions.
My biggest question is the missing refunds for the jupiter purchase price versus share purchase price difference, which is over 2.2BTC for me for example. Soniq has ignored my questions about this missing refunds. I think everyone should check if they deserve a refund and got it or not.

I agree. EVERYONE, particularly those who have changed their addresses at some point, should definitely be reviewing their own accounts in the ledger and make sure the payouts have been correct. With that information, it's generally easy to lookup if something was missing, especially where payment addresses have changed. There shouldn't be many of these situations. It appears the change initiated with Ben's addresses was bad timing.

anw

member

Activity: 76

Merit: 10

Still no dividend since january.
WHAT.THE.F*CK.

agibby5

sr. member

Activity: 267

Merit: 250

Quote from: dutu on February 19, 2014, 02:44:07 PM

Hi Soniq and group members,

Here come part two of the report on my analysis of Soniq’s balance sheet and dividend payouts.
This verification and the report posed here is for Soniq’s balance sheet and transactions on the transactions up to Jan 31.

Here is the file posted by soniq which I have verified: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=24

This is the excel file I have produced with verification calculations and results: http://1drv.ms/1d0t1j2

(1) I have looked at “Dividend Payment Balance Sheet” in soniq’s file

(Line 6) Total Mining income Received: 1332,890284
(Line 14) Total Expenses: 211,2304057

Total BTC to be paid out 1121,65987854

(2) I have looked at “Ledger Jan 31_14” sheet in soniq’s file (and have copied original sheet into my file so I can color it)

Positive values (column D) consist of
•   Mined coins that have been paid out
•   Other stuff that has been paid out (refunded hosting payments, share price adjustments, private loans, 2% management fee)

(Negative values are the bitcoin transactions to users)

Let us take an example to clarify and we exemplify with a random user:

[img-]https://9ncosq.bn1302.livefilestore.com/y2pBKS5epy1p5mfG6g5fE6kYDkIbjb7kavouEbv829TQqf4V_mXss9Jo8BzFtZ_bNoD7H9aUIX-abR3PM_-iW7HFz8vRs06BD3-HxepI5NakDA/Capture.JPG?psid=1[/img]

The user he has been paid out:

0,66000000    Refunded hosting payment (line 368)
0,28645000    GB1 prorated share price adjustment (line 369)
4,28738914 Mined coins (lines 370-275 marked in green)

I have applied a filter to sum all mined coins that have been paid out (green lines).

The sum of the mined coins that have been paid out to all users is 1044,68000011 BTC.

However, total BTC to be paid out is 1121,65987854 BTC

1121,65987854 - 1044,68000011 = 76,97987843

To conclude, up to Jan 31, there is still 76,97987843 BTC mining income received that Soniq has missed to pay out.

I ran though this with dutu. I'm not going to post the convo, because we went down several trains of thought and went into several different issues. It's a complicated chat to follow.

Here's my analysis which ends up coming to the same conclusion. We cannot consider refunds, penalties, other nonmining payouts to be part of mining payouts.

Here's my math in sheet "Dividend Payment Balance Sheet" on lines 17 through 26: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web#gid=31

We come to the exact same conclusion that mining income of 1044.68 has been paid out.

What absolutely complicates this matter is that the ledger has all these personal loans, and nonmining transactions going on... which leads to this (and some other) problems. More to come later.

This concludes and fixes the missing 76 BTC... the spreadsheet is now up to date and shows 128.752061356 to be paid out.

BenTuras

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 1001

Quote from: dutu on February 20, 2014, 03:06:56 AM

Quote from: BenTuras on February 20, 2014, 01:33:42 AM

[...] an unknown amount of BTC for dividend???

The number is known and it is in my verification of soniq's sheet.
Anyone can verify this and I advise that confirm this

I agree, and I will change my text.

dutu

member

Activity: 73

Merit: 10

Quote from: BenTuras on February 20, 2014, 01:33:42 AM

[...] an unknown amount of BTC for dividend???

The number is known and it is in my verification of soniq's sheet.
Anyone can verify this and I advise that we confirm this

BenTuras

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 1001

Quote from: BenTuras on February 19, 2014, 03:16:08 AM

Well, I am losing my patients and I am sure many with me.
I will give you till Friday noon GMT, if there hasn't been a dividend payment by then and the refund for the too high paid share price, I will seek legal advice.

Today I received two small payments: 0.02992773 and 0.0017733.
No idea what it's for, but at least he got me seeking legal advice postponed.

Care to explain these two small, amounts Soniq, while you owe me more than 2BTC for the GB1 pro rated share price adjustment and an amount of BTC for dividend???

BenTuras

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 1001

What a mess. I agree that there has been to much dividend paid to GB2/3 members which should have been paid to GB1.

agibby5

sr. member

Activity: 267

Merit: 250

Quote from: equipoise on February 19, 2014, 05:02:25 PM

dutu: You are perfectly right.
agibby5: It seems you don't have a clue how and when Eligius mining pool is sending the coins mined. Please read the Eligius FAQ (at least) and come back: http://eligius.st/~gateway/faq-page

I didn't ask for any criticism of my understanding... but thank you for reaffirming dutu's point. At least I followed and came to the same understanding at the end. If we get more people to understand this, I think soniq has this adjustment to make.

I guess that's what you get for being transparent though.

Topic: [Group Buy]12 KNCminer Jupiter's 15 Sold [Closed] Jupiter Pool - page 5. (Read 75591 times)