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Topic: Gun free zone - page 8. (Read 21931 times)

donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007
Poor impulse control.
December 22, 2012, 02:38:11 AM
....... I'm all for gun control in my country, mostly because it hasn't created any adverse effects and also because if I had to carry a gun everywhere I'd have to go to shooting ranges to practice regularly and I honestly can't be arsed. Guns are incredibly boring things. There's nothing at all interesting about them from my point of view.

I agree with the rest of your post, but guns and money make the world go round these days, and have since the advent of both. Calling them "boring" is either ignorant or some rhetorical strategy.


You're writing about the concept of a gun, or the effect guns in general have on society. I'm writing about personal experience with the use of and practice with guns. I thought that was clear from context but if not, that's what I meant.

Yes, I find them dull. Deadly dull. And loud, even with earmuffs. Autos are kind of fun the first time I guess, but by the time you can strip and reassemble one blindfolded in sixty seconds all the fun is gone. And even when it was fun, was never the kind of rush you get when you finally understanding a provable statement about the nature of reality.

Maybe I'd change my mind if my life was in danger from a threat I could only remove with a gun, but it's not and so gun ranges are just noisy boring places to me.

vip
Activity: 756
Merit: 503
December 22, 2012, 02:37:44 AM
Yup. We recognize that ultimately, you're the one responsible for your own defense. The courts agree with us. Unless you want to pay to have a bodyguard at all times, your safety is, ultimately, your duty.

'We' who? You and other delusional compulsive liars?

I thought you were arguing that self-defense was a right, not a duty.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
December 22, 2012, 02:28:29 AM
I'm sorry, I'd try and debate, but I'm completely distracted by the cute asian chicks with Katana.

And zomg Organofcorti Cheesy You're intelligent!
I find Mr. Trump's hair to be one of the more cogent debaters on here. That probably explains why you don't see him in here often.


I think the difference is between gun control and people who want guns is that the people who want guns want to take responsibility for defence themselves rather than rely on others and I can't help but side with that idea really since that idea is going to be much more useful if you happen to be alone when attacked.

Yup. We recognize that ultimately, you're the one responsible for your own defense. The courts agree with us. Unless you want to pay to have a bodyguard at all times, your safety is, ultimately, your duty.

Those who pound their guns into plows will plow for those who don't.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
December 22, 2012, 02:24:33 AM
.... Well, I think with the fear about accidents with guns we can definitely reduce the problem by educating people about them, I don't think just banning them is the answer because as you say it's going to scare the hell out of people more than protect them, then there's the fact that I'm terrified of what might happen here in the UK for example if I was attacked. I'd feel a lot more safer with a gun, I think if gun control people are going to call for a ban though they'd better station some police outside schools, but of course you can bet people would object to that too.

I think the difference is between gun control and people who want guns is that the people who want guns want to take responsibility for defence themselves rather than rely on others and I can't help but side with that idea really since that idea is going to be much more useful if you happen to be alone when attacked.

I think you missed my point, or I didn't make it well. I wasn't referring to fear about accidental firearm deaths -  live with any death dealing technology long enough and you become inured to the possibility. People still use cars and planes and motorbikes. Live with guns long enough and you'll probably not worry about accidental firearm discharges.

My point was that there are some societies in which people are in constant fear for their lives. In these societies, I think gun control is pointless - people will just find other ways to kill people. I think the root cause about the failure of that society needs to be investigated. Other developed nations don't have this constant fear that someone will take away everything they have because it rarely happens.

I'm all for gun control in my country, mostly because it hasn't created any adverse effects and also because if I had to carry a gun everywhere I'd have to go to shooting ranges to practice regularly and I honestly can't be arsed. Guns are incredibly boring things. There's nothing at all interesting about them from my point of view.

If you increase gun control in society of people who already think you're out to get them, it's not going to reduce violence. The fear needs to be address first.


I agree with the rest of your post, but guns and money make the world go round these days, and have since the advent of both. Calling them "boring" is either ignorant or some rhetorical strategy.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
December 22, 2012, 02:16:49 AM
I'm sorry, I'd try and debate, but I'm completely distracted by the cute asian chicks with Katana.

And zomg Organofcorti Cheesy You're intelligent!
I find Mr. Trump's hair to be one of the more cogent debaters on here. That probably explains why you don't see him in here often.


I think the difference is between gun control and people who want guns is that the people who want guns want to take responsibility for defence themselves rather than rely on others and I can't help but side with that idea really since that idea is going to be much more useful if you happen to be alone when attacked.

Yup. We recognize that ultimately, you're the one responsible for your own defense. The courts agree with us. Unless you want to pay to have a bodyguard at all times, your safety is, ultimately, your duty.
donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007
Poor impulse control.
December 22, 2012, 02:15:52 AM
Any country where people feel the need to have weapons to protect themselves from other citizens or from the government should probably work on that lack of security before they advocate gun control.

History has a tendency of showing that the armed will enslave and/or kill the unarmed. I don't think we yet have the technology for perfect defense from this. And pretending it can't happen in the modern world is simply wishful thinking.

Are you pro- or con- gun control? I can't tell from your post.
donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007
Poor impulse control.
December 22, 2012, 02:14:58 AM
.... Well, I think with the fear about accidents with guns we can definitely reduce the problem by educating people about them, I don't think just banning them is the answer because as you say it's going to scare the hell out of people more than protect them, then there's the fact that I'm terrified of what might happen here in the UK for example if I was attacked. I'd feel a lot more safer with a gun, I think if gun control people are going to call for a ban though they'd better station some police outside schools, but of course you can bet people would object to that too.

I think the difference is between gun control and people who want guns is that the people who want guns want to take responsibility for defence themselves rather than rely on others and I can't help but side with that idea really since that idea is going to be much more useful if you happen to be alone when attacked.

I think you missed my point, or I didn't make it well. I wasn't referring to fear about accidental firearm deaths -  live with any death dealing technology long enough and you become inured to the possibility. People still use cars and planes and motorbikes. Live with guns long enough and you'll probably not worry about accidental firearm discharges.

My point was that there are some societies in which people are in constant fear for their lives. In these societies, I think gun control is pointless - people will just find other ways to kill people. I think the root cause about the failure of that society needs to be investigated. Other developed nations don't have this constant fear that someone will take away everything they have because it rarely happens.

I'm all for gun control in my country, mostly because it hasn't created any adverse effects and also because if I had to carry a gun everywhere I'd have to go to shooting ranges to practice regularly and I honestly can't be arsed. Guns are incredibly boring things. There's nothing at all interesting about them from my point of view.

If you increase gun control in society of people who already think you're out to get them, it's not going to reduce violence. The fear needs to be address first.




vip
Activity: 756
Merit: 503
December 22, 2012, 01:59:18 AM

Paid evidence from a journal published in 2001?

I guess you did not even understand the abstract.

Myrkul, you are fucked up...
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000
December 22, 2012, 01:58:23 AM
I'm sorry, I'd try and debate, but I'm completely distracted by the cute asian chicks with Katana.

And zomg Organofcorti Cheesy You're intelligent! Well, I think with the fear about accidents with guns we can definitely reduce the problem by educating people about them, I don't think just banning them is the answer because as you say it's going to scare the hell out of people more than protect them, then there's the fact that I'm terrified of what might happen here in the UK for example if I was attacked. I'd feel a lot more safer with a gun, I think if gun control people are going to call for a ban though they'd better station some police outside schools, but of course you can bet people would object to that too.

I think the difference is between gun control and people who want guns is that the people who want guns want to take responsibility for defence themselves rather than rely on others and I can't help but side with that idea really since that idea is going to be much more useful if you happen to be alone when attacked or even if you get corrupt police etc. trying to attack you.
donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007
Poor impulse control.
December 22, 2012, 01:54:16 AM
....... despite his claims he tends to ignore hard statistics and like many people in this world blame inanimate objects for the problems caused by human error.

He's religious then? Sounds like every religion I've ever met.

It does seem like it is a religion sadly, I find myself better able to argue with the so called gun nuts than with gun control people Tongue

I'm gun control people. But I tend to think there are countries for which it won't work, and countries for which it will.

The responses in this thread show clearly that for some US citizens, giving up guns is as good as stepping in front of a bus. While it's possible that not having a gun is not fatal, it does seem to be a real fear. Removing guns for these people isn't going to make them feel more secure, but just the reverse.

Any country where people feel the need to have weapons to protect themselves from other citizens or from the government should probably work on that lack of security before they advocate gun control.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
December 22, 2012, 01:53:53 AM
It's highly amusing that you actually spent time in order to argue my point.

Of course it is amusing! It is funny to mock you. Tell me, should archery being part of the national curriculum for all teenagers, so they can defend themselves against child abusers, rapists, psychopaths and pimps with arrows?

What do you think about swords? Perhaps classrooms with Katana swords?

National curriculum? No. Seriously, it's like you don't know you're talking to an anarchist. But if a school wants to start a gun club, or an archery range, or a Kendo dojo, more power to 'em.
vip
Activity: 756
Merit: 503
December 22, 2012, 01:47:52 AM
It's highly amusing that you actually spent time in order to argue my point.

Of course it is amusing! It is funny to mock you. Tell me, should archery being part of the national curriculum for all teenagers, so they can defend themselves against child abusers, rapists, psychopaths and pimps with arrows?

What do you think about swords? Perhaps classrooms with Katana swords?

legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000
December 22, 2012, 01:45:19 AM
....... despite his claims he tends to ignore hard statistics and like many people in this world blame inanimate objects for the problems caused by human error.

He's religious then? Sounds like every religion I've ever met.

It does seem like it is a religion sadly, I find myself better able to argue with the so called gun nuts than with gun control people Tongue
donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007
Poor impulse control.
December 22, 2012, 01:44:05 AM
....... despite his claims he tends to ignore hard statistics and like many people in this world blame inanimate objects for the problems caused by human error.

He's religious then? Sounds like every religion I've ever met.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
December 22, 2012, 01:42:05 AM

Do you have access to the whole article? The abstract isn't very enlightening I'm afraid.

Sadly, no. And $14.00 is a bit excessive to prove a point on an internet forum. But your local library may have JSTOR access, and I believe someone released a torrent of a large quantity of those articles.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000
December 22, 2012, 01:40:33 AM
Hey, which takes less time to learn?

A martial art, such as Karate, or how to hit a man-sized target at less than 10 feet?

Practising martial arts for 8 years now, still learning it and still have much to learn, a gun is definitely easier Tongue Also, I wouldn't bother arguing with FirstAscent, despite his claims he tends to ignore hard statistics and like many people in this world blame inanimate objects for the problems caused by human error.
donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007
Poor impulse control.
December 22, 2012, 01:37:24 AM

Do you have access to the whole article? The abstract isn't very enlightening I'm afraid.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
December 22, 2012, 01:34:33 AM
I'd like to know why it is that in such a modern country the homicide rate  is so high.

The study I linked above presents an interesting theory.
donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007
Poor impulse control.
December 22, 2012, 01:32:59 AM
This is a little OT, but I think it fits with the overall discussion.

According to this the US homicide rate is more than four times higher than that where I live, and indeed most other Western or developed nations.

I keep reading comments here that "we need to keep firearms to protect ourselves". With such a massive homicide rate I can understand why everyone in the US is (probably rightly so) scared of everyone else, to the extent that they fear for their lives constantly. I'd like to know why it is that in such a modern country the homicide rate  is so high. If this could be solved, gun control would be less of an issue.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
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