Topic: Gun free zone - page 10. (Read 21968 times)

And don't forget, besides the obvious and egregious examples of the Nazis and Soviets, the relatively open and free governments of the West have quite an astoundingly large amount of blood on their hands.

I suggest spending our time/money addressing the mental health issue AT ALL, as currently the US uses it's PRISONS to house the mentally ill.

But banning all guns because a few crazy people used some to kill a few dozen people, that just makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

Wow, so you suggest curing all neurological and psychologically health problems.

You certainly are ambitious!

Logical fallacy: some governments (not only participated but also) initiated and enforced genocides so all forms of government should be banned.

I know it's easier to think that way, but simplicity isn't always a solution when you want billions (or even simply hundreds) of people to share natural resources and make a life for themselves.

A government, even a tyrannical one, is always tolerated by its population. All governments fell when people organized themselves. If they don't have guns, it's only a trivial matter: part of the military will always defect (they don't like to kill their own family and friends usually). When people really value freedom and are willing to die for it there's nothing a government can do even with a large military advantage: the bigger the guns they have, the more damage they can deal them when soldiers defect. Today tyrannical governments only maintain themselves by aggressively spying on their population and keeping it from organizing as free thinking groups. When your government knows where you live, who you communicate with, where your kids go to school, which path they use and sends an anonymous thug to your door saying "you know we know that you are in contact with these anti-patriotic criminals, that's a bad idea that could bring misfortune to your family..." that's far more effective that sending him with a gun to kill everybody in sight. That's how they do it in China, mostly they don't even have to send someone as people know they are watched and most keep their heads down. Even though there are hangings and people "disappear", this is by far the exception and mainly used to make the threat real, it's much more effective to spread fear and division than creating martyrs.

This is why you should be much more worried by governments spying on you than governments banning guns. This is the first step in tyranny which makes all others trivial enough. If they allow the situation to degenerate and come to open kidnappings and killings they don't stand much chance.

We discussed guns as a last line of defense against corrupted governments, but last time I checked in the US you were a democracy: why do you keep voting for corrupt people removing your liberties? If there isn't anyone running for public office you can trust and you are so convinced the ones who do are after you, why don't you do it yourself and educate your fellow citizens instead of grabbing a gun? Is it so much better to limit your safety to keeping a gun on you at all times and have people with gun you trust around anyone or anything you value even when you don't have a single clue where, when and against whom you will have to defend yourself?

You are fighting a lost battle, guns were the only defense weapons available to small isolated groups in an hostile environment ages ago when dying young and violently was commonplace and seen as inevitable. Today if you want something better than the wild west what you need is knowledge, trust relationships and involvement in the political process. The threats will always be too big to handle when they come if you ignore them and let them grow while training yourself at the gun range, no matter how big the gun you train with is.

They have at least two things in common, the first being that a person has become mentally ill and nobody has done anything about it.  This would be the one to focus on as weapons abound and you cannot fix that -- I could build a gun or explosive device with very little effort.  Nobody would know.

They WOULD however notice if I was fired from my job, stopped showing up to things, looked depressed, acted strange, etc etc etc.  

Let's fix the source of the problem, not the tools that problem may use to be murderous.  

Except the ones that were committed with knives, or home-made bombs, or in one case, a truck...

You know what the ones that were stopped all have in common?

Access to guns!

How many examples do I have to provide you otherwise before you'll retract that assertion?

The degree to which the pro-gunners are prepared to twist and manipulate the truth would be funny, if it weren't for the tragedies that spring from it.

Killing sprees all have one thing in common.

Access to guns!

+1.

Who are you morons? Parliament? Actually, forget it, you aren't worth the time any more.

I'm well aware.

Keep your eyes open for sarcasm...there might be some in there...

Speak for yourself.

So who care about your opinion that is BASED ON LIES as proven earlier.

You're just a liar, keep living in your little fantasy world built on lies.


edit:

Just to see how a big liar you are:

Posting misleading statistics: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1408816
Claiming that someone else lied (LOLOLOL): https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1409420
Warned him that his data is BS: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1409707
Owned his lying ass: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1410074

If I am not mistaken, there has been a time or two when governments have participated in genocide.  I’m not going to crunch the numbers, because I’m sure others have already.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE5.HTM

Without looking, I would guess that the number of people killed by governments are pretty staggering, making school and mall shootings insignificant (except for those involved). Kind of like the carbon dioxide released by a big volcano eruption compared to a gas powered leaf blower.

If we really want to protect the children, we should ban all governments.  You never know when a government might snap and go crazy on its people. 
(Actually, civilian disarmament might be a valid indicator since this tends to happen prior to most genocide.)

Seriously, all joking aside, we don’t want to end government…after all they are the great protector and provider of us all.  What we need are better laws to ensure nothing bad happens and we can all live in peace.  Rather than take decades for laws to evolve to reach this mighty goal, why not just get there now and eliminate years of pain and carnage? 

I think padded rooms with strait jackets and an IV into our arms (for nutrition and medication) would allow us all to reach that goal of world peace.

Remember, peace is the goal, and freedom is the problem.

As to "can't prove it," witness:

You have a right to life.

It therefore follows that:

By virtue of that right to life, you have a right to defend yourself when someone attempts to take it. To infringe upon this right is to infringe upon the right to life.

It therefore follows that:

By virtue of that right to self-defense, you have the right to own the most effective tools for self defense. To infringe upon this right is to infringe upon the right to defend your life.

It therefore follows that:

Gun ownership is a right.

Do you think its ethical to prevent people from being able to defend themselves ?

myrkul is not alone. I am also the worst of the worst, as I fundamentally share the same belief.

I believe in freedom. I don't like deaths, but if freedom kills, so be it. I will fight for my freedom, whatever it takes. Freedom means the freedom to have firearms or not. It means freedom of speech, association, currency, and so much else.

I am perfectly fine if you do not wish to associate with those who have firearms, nor own one yourself. I'm not stopping you from that. I will have my revolver, and hopefully more firearms in the future. I feel that myself and those around me are safer because I have a firearm. My safety and the safety of my parents, friends, and neighbors is important to me. I believe that owning a firearm enables me to ensure greater security in that regard.

While numbers of deaths per 100,000 are certainly interesting to look at, they are not something to base life on. That train of thought will lead you to ban foods, practices, getting to bed too late, excessive stress, and just about every other "unhealthy" practice. And knives, too.

So I'm not asking you to respect firearms. I am asking you to respect my right, myrkul's right, and everyone else's right to them.

And if that makes me the worst of the worst, I am okay with that.

You left out the meaningful part:
Self defense is a right. When you infringe upon that right, people die.