Guns - page 6. | Bitcointalksearch.org

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 08:25:56 AM

Quote from: myrkul on August 01, 2012, 08:19:57 AM

Honestly, I don't care about your stance, I want you to answer my question.

Honestly, I don't care for yours too. Arguing with you is like talking to a brick wall.

Cops showing up doesn't end the situation every time, either. About 50% of rampage shootings end in suicides. Not "suicide by cop", straight up "Fuck you, I'm out." suicides. A good chunk of those happen before the cops get there. An overlapping chunk happened as soon as the assailant met resistance. Armed civilians means that resistance happens much, much sooner.

In that video, Grandpa may or may not have even hit with a single shot (the video isn't very clear). But he sure as hell ended the situation, now didn't he?

I guess we'll never know if you would prefer to be witness to a 15 second gun battle, or huddled under some scenery for 6 minutes while you wait for the cops to show up or the gunman to find you.

neptop

sr. member

Activity: 314

Merit: 251

I think, mainly psychopaths (in varying degrees and I don't really exclude myself) want to have a weapon, but still think people should be able to get guns. Not just because of thinking everyone should have the right too, but also since mass murderers get them anyway/don't need them.

vampire

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: myrkul on August 01, 2012, 08:19:57 AM

Honestly, I don't care about your stance, I want you to answer my question.

Honestly, I don't care for yours too. Arguing with you is like talking to a brick wall.

/end thread.

vampire

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: myrkul on August 01, 2012, 08:19:57 AM

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 08:14:07 AM

Quote from: myrkul on August 01, 2012, 08:11:11 AM

Let's see if you'll evade it an 8th time:

Time it takes for a cop to get there: 6 minutes
Time it takes an armed civilian already on the scene to draw his weapon: 5 seconds.

Events stopped by civilians are shorter, by practically a order of magnitude, than those which require police intervention. Now, which would you prefer: A gun battle that lasts 10-15 seconds, or an armed belligerent set loose for 6 minutes?

I didn;t evade, I answered you many times. Whatever crimes CCW carriers prevent, they also cause it. CCW carriers were also mass shooters.

You found 2. Good for you. You've proven that some psychopaths can lie on tests. Now answer the damn question:

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 08:18:01 AM

Tell me why are you arguing me? You know my stance on guns, what you dont like about it?

Honestly, I don't care about your stance, I want you to answer my question.

2 or 6, may be 8 or 10? LOL fail as usually.

You never proved the point going from "draw" to "stopping" crime. My crime statistics says otherwise. Or are you implying a perfect world? In a perfect world there would be no crime.

An armed civilian may draw a gun in 5 seconds, but stopping crime - um um wait do you remember my chart again?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1048551

Quote from: myrkul on August 01, 2012, 08:11:11 AM

Let's see if you'll evade it an 8th time:

Time it takes for a cop to get there: 6 minutes
Time it takes an armed civilian already on the scene to draw his weapon: 5 seconds.

Events stopped by civilians are shorter, by practically a order of magnitude, than those which require police intervention. Now, which would you prefer: A gun battle that lasts 10-15 seconds, or an armed belligerent set loose for 6 minutes?

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 08:14:07 AM

Quote from: myrkul on August 01, 2012, 08:11:11 AM

Let's see if you'll evade it an 8th time:

Time it takes for a cop to get there: 6 minutes
Time it takes an armed civilian already on the scene to draw his weapon: 5 seconds.

Events stopped by civilians are shorter, by practically a order of magnitude, than those which require police intervention. Now, which would you prefer: A gun battle that lasts 10-15 seconds, or an armed belligerent set loose for 6 minutes?

I didn;t evade, I answered you many times. Whatever crimes CCW carriers prevent, they also cause it. CCW carriers were also mass shooters.

You found 2. Good for you. You've proven that some psychopaths can lie on tests. Now answer the damn question:

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 08:18:01 AM

Tell me why are you arguing me? You know my stance on guns, what you dont like about it?

Honestly, I don't care about your stance, I want you to answer my question.

vampire

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Tell me why are you arguing me? You know my stance on guns, what you dont like about it?

vampire

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: myrkul on August 01, 2012, 08:11:11 AM

Let's see if you'll evade it an 8th time:

Time it takes for a cop to get there: 6 minutes
Time it takes an armed civilian already on the scene to draw his weapon: 5 seconds.

Events stopped by civilians are shorter, by practically a order of magnitude, than those which require police intervention. Now, which would you prefer: A gun battle that lasts 10-15 seconds, or an armed belligerent set loose for 6 minutes?

I didn;t evade, I answered you many times. Whatever crimes CCW carriers prevent, they also cause it. CCW carriers were also mass shooters.

The statistics chart is quiet clear about guns laws vs crime rate.

vampire

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Rampages by CCW carriers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Appomattox_shootings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_County_massacre
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-5799725-504083.html
http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/ready_aim_misfire_analysis_fin.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/16/frank-garcia-guilty-of-mu_n_394172.html

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 07:43:50 AM

Quote

Accidents ≠ crime.

They were charged with crime - manslaughter (I haven't checked both cases). It goes into the crime statistics.

That's nice. If carrying increases accidental shootings, by exactly as much as, or even more than, it decreases malicious shootings, that is a statistic I am willing to accept. Because, as I said before, accidents happen, and responsible people make their victims whole. Criminals do not, by and large, fit the category of "responsible people".

Let's see if you'll evade it an 8th time:

Time it takes for a cop to get there: 6 minutes
Time it takes an armed civilian already on the scene to draw his weapon: 5 seconds.

Events stopped by civilians are shorter, by practically a order of magnitude, than those which require police intervention. Now, which would you prefer: A gun battle that lasts 10-15 seconds, or an armed belligerent set loose for 6 minutes?

vampire

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

I don't really like reading biased sites, but this one has some "stats". I cannot verify their stats, probably is BS. But still, since a lot of BS is coming from myrkul:

http://www.vpc.org/ccwkillers.htm

The Violence Policy Center’s Concealed Carry Killers database currently documents 343 incidents in 32 states since May 2007. In more than three quarters of the incidents (271) the concealed carry killer has already been convicted (99), committed suicide (165), or was killed in the incident (seven). Of the 63 cases still pending, the vast majority (53) of concealed carry killers have been charged with criminal homicide, four were deemed incompetent to stand trial, and six incidents are still under investigation. An additional nine incidents were fatal unintentional shootings involving the gun of the concealed handgun permit holder. Twenty-one of the incidents were mass shootings, resulting in the deaths of 94 victims.

vampire

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: myrkul on August 01, 2012, 07:42:07 AM

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 07:38:29 AM

Quote from: myrkul on August 01, 2012, 07:33:47 AM

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 07:30:12 AM

Whatever crime CCW carriers stop, the statistics doesn't* go down because other CCW carriers cause crime.

1:*don't

2: Care to explain how a trained CCW carrier causes crime?

7th time?

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 03:39:32 AM

Here are some innocent people getting shot by someone in self-defense...
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/15154920/detail.html
http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2012/05/accused-folklife-festival-gunman-told-officers-that-he-was-sorry-an-innocent-person-was-shot/

Accidents ≠ crime.

They were charged with crime - manslaughter (I haven't checked both cases). It goes into the crime statistics.

edit:

Finding such cases are difficult, since they are simply charged as crime. Here is one of the cases:

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Video-taken-night-of-fatal-shooting-shown-to-3611376.php

One more:

http://epifaniasnoticias.blogspot.com/2011/08/senseless-decision-of-ccw-carrier-leads.html

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 07:38:29 AM

Quote from: myrkul on August 01, 2012, 07:33:47 AM

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 07:30:12 AM

Whatever crime CCW carriers stop, the statistics doesn't* go down because other CCW carriers cause crime.

1:*don't

2: Care to explain how a trained CCW carrier causes crime?

7th time?

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 03:39:32 AM

Here are some innocent people getting shot by someone in self-defense...
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/15154920/detail.html
http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2012/05/accused-folklife-festival-gunman-told-officers-that-he-was-sorry-an-innocent-person-was-shot/

Accidents ≠ crime.

vampire

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: myrkul on August 01, 2012, 07:33:47 AM

1:*don't (Protip: when attempting to insult someone's intelligence, spelling and grammar are key.)

Yea, I had a typo in don't and my spellchecker fixed it to doesn't. So what, I mistype a lot.

vampire

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: myrkul on August 01, 2012, 07:33:47 AM

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 07:30:12 AM

Whatever crime CCW carriers stop, the statistics doesn't* go down because other CCW carriers cause crime.

1:*don't

2: Care to explain how a trained CCW carrier causes crime?

7th time?

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 03:39:32 AM

Here are some innocent people getting shot by someone in self-defense...
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/15154920/detail.html
http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2012/05/accused-folklife-festival-gunman-told-officers-that-he-was-sorry-an-innocent-person-was-shot/

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 07:30:12 AM

Whatever crime CCW carriers stop, the statistics doesn't* go down because other CCW carriers cause crime.

1:*don't (Protip: when attempting to insult someone's intelligence, spelling and grammar are key.)

2: Care to explain how a trained CCW carrier causes crime?

vampire

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: myrkul on August 01, 2012, 07:27:26 AM

There will not. You've admitted that you have no valid response to the fact that a trained CCW carrier can beat a cop to the punch every damn time. Thank you.

Give mommy her computer back now, she probably wants to check her email.

Jesus, you can't read.

Let me simplify for you:

Whatever crime CCW carriers/gun owners stop, the statistics doesn't go down because other CCW carriers/gun owners cause crime/accidents.

edit:

now we're at the 6th time.

edit2:

here are my old post, proving that CCW has no relevance on crime:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1048551

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 07:25:11 AM

Quote from: myrkul on August 01, 2012, 07:20:40 AM

Please respond directly to that statement. Do not post a link, or a quote from an edited post, write something directly. Oh, and try not to use "LOL" so much. It makes you look like a teenager.

Fifth time:

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 03:39:32 AM

I addressed by saying that the guy missed 70-80% of shots, these shots could have killed someone.

Now if he missed and shot some innocent bystander he would be in jail, and rightfully so. This video that was claimed to be a massacre, a blatant lie, doesn't prove anything. I can post hundreds of news articles where children get shot by gun accidents, and that's just accidents and per year.

Next time you call me out, make sure you have hard facts ready.

Here are some innocent people getting shot by someone in self-defense...
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/15154920/detail.html
http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2012/05/accused-folklife-festival-gunman-told-officers-that-he-was-sorry-an-innocent-person-was-shot/

I am responding to what you're implying. Since by itself the statistics is useless.

I hope there will be no 6th time.

There will not. You've admitted that you have no valid response to the fact that a trained CCW carrier can beat a cop to the punch every damn time. Thank you.

Give mommy her computer back now, she probably wants to check her email.

vampire

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: myrkul on August 01, 2012, 07:20:40 AM

Please respond directly to that statement. Do not post a link, or a quote from an edited post, write something directly. Oh, and try not to use "LOL" so much. It makes you look like a teenager.

Fifth time:

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 03:39:32 AM

I addressed by saying that the guy missed 70-80% of shots, these shots could have killed someone.

Now if he missed and shot some innocent bystander he would be in jail, and rightfully so. This video that was claimed to be a massacre, a blatant lie, doesn't prove anything. I can post hundreds of news articles where children get shot by gun accidents, and that's just accidents and per year.

Next time you call me out, make sure you have hard facts ready.

Here are some innocent people getting shot by someone in self-defense...
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/15154920/detail.html
http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2012/05/accused-folklife-festival-gunman-told-officers-that-he-was-sorry-an-innocent-person-was-shot/

I am responding to what you're implying. Since by itself the statistics is useless.

I hope there will be no 6th time.

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 07:00:45 AM

Fact: you can't read.

The fact that you're writing this to me is delicious, delicious irony. You've addressed the fact that the old fart can't shoot. Fine, I get that. What you have not addressed is this:

Quote

Average police response time: 6 minutes;
Average CCW draw time 5 seconds.

Please respond directly to that statement. Do not post a link, or a quote from an edited post, write something directly. Oh, and try not to use "LOL" so much. It makes you look like a teenager.

vampire

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: myrkul on August 01, 2012, 06:52:48 AM

Forgive me, but I don't see how. Especially since you directed that response at nimda.

Quote from: vampire on August 01, 2012, 06:42:57 AM

Video is ......? I just got dumber by watching it.

That's not going to change anything. The Untied States is based on guns, you know.
It was changing both ways, let this rapper silly dude come to NYC and wave his gun. LOL

You can strap explosives on your body, they do that all the time.
Awesome, your gun would be great to stop that. LOL

Yeah, it's legal in the United States. It's part of our Constitution. You know, the right to bear arms is because that's the last form of defense against tyranny. Not to hunt. It's to protect yourself from the police.
Do you want a tinfoil hat? LOL

And he said police, not criminals.

Topic: Guns - page 6. (Read 22189 times)