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Topic: Guns - page 8. (Read 22189 times)

hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
0xFB0D8D1534241423
July 31, 2012, 06:03:27 PM
In the U.S., "no, you're not 'supposed' to." Elsewhere, it is, and often is.

As for "not 'supposed' to," it can and will happen anyways. Put a huge tax on it, require $100K in licenses, papers, registration etc, then start passing laws banning them in theaters, New York City, residential areas, etc. You'll wind up with 100 rich white survivalist gun owners who also own a million acres of land, 320 million gun-less civilians, and 30 million "criminals" owning guns, some of whom will kill a person in their lifetime and some who are perfectly law-abiding minus the guns part.

Because there's a lot of guns here already.

If that's response to me. Let me ask questions ( I can guess the answers)

First question:

Do you think that CCW should be unrestrictive.
CCW should be allowed only after a formal training.
CCW should be allowed only after a formal training and state certification.
I am all for gun education. In fact, formal training with state certification is fine, as long as it is provided free by the state. Or very cheaply, but a poor person's definition of "cheap" is often at odds with that of a Congressman.

I am also all for education on the perils of drugs, including alcohol, tobacco, illicit drugs, and pharmaceutical drugs.

Quote
Second question:

If a gun gets stolen the owner isn't responsible for any crime that it caused
The owner only responsible for the portion of the damages.
The owner has a full responsibility.
This one is tricky. Doesn't the gun owner have a responsibility for the gun; shouldn't he keep it safe? Yet he didn't do the killing. He can't have a full responsibility, because he didn't kill anyone or rob any banks. I'm gonna have to go with partial responsibility.
If someone drowns in my pool, I can be sued. Never mind that they were there without my permission and trying to rob me.
If a child is at my house who eats some pills that look like M&M's, I can be sued.
What about if someone steals my knife and uses it to commit murder? Should that be different than if someone steals my gun?

In any case, gun education would include a lengthy section on keeping guns dismantled and secure, to avoid accidental injury (child plays with gun, shoots self) and theft.

Quote
Third question:

Should be businesses be allowed to established their own rules:

1) yes, they could restrict guns in their establishments
2) no.
Is a bank a business? Should people be allowed to carry guns into banks? What about knives? Poison darts? Hammers? Glass bottles? Stump remover (stump remover, when used correctly, is explosive BTW)?
There's two sides to this, and both can end badly:
1.a A bank or other business bans guns on their property. Someone comes in and shoots up the bank. Defenseless victims.
1.b A bank or other business bans guns on their property. Someone comes in and robs the bank using a non-gun weapon.
1.c A bank or other business bans guns on their property. Criminals don't obey the law, so they bring guns in anyways. They rob or shoot up the bank.
2. A bank does not ban guns on their property. Someone comes in and shoots up the bank or tries to rob it.

At least in bad scenario 2, there are civilians who can come to the defense of themselves and others. Ultimately, I believe that it is the bank's property, and they should be able to make their own decisions. They should have security on-hand. Perhaps the security is armed and can come to the defense of themselves and others. If enough customers believe that the security is inadequate, they will use a bank which allows open-carry or has better security.
[/quote]

Did you guess correctly?
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
July 31, 2012, 05:58:33 PM
I think your mother may have something to say to you about your choice of words.
Fucktard.
I'm sure she'd be proud of you for that one, too.
Since we have established that I am smarter than you. What do you think?

All you have established is that you are more vulgar than I am. And more willing to use slurs. As to what I think, I agree that "Profanity is the last refuge of the truly ignorant." So, unless you have something productive to add, kindly silence yourself, so the adults can speak.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
July 31, 2012, 05:53:14 PM
I think your mother may have something to say to you about your choice of words.
Fucktard.
I'm sure she'd be proud of you for that one, too.

Since we have established that I am smarter than you. What do you think?
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
July 31, 2012, 05:48:31 PM
I think your mother may have something to say to you about your choice of words.
Fucktard.
I'm sure she'd be proud of you for that one, too.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
July 31, 2012, 05:46:53 PM
I think your mother may have something to say to you about your choice of words.

Fucktard.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
July 31, 2012, 05:46:28 PM
In the U.S., "no, you're not 'supposed' to." Elsewhere, it is, and often is.

As for "not 'supposed' to," it can and will happen anyways. Put a huge tax on it, require $100K in licenses, papers, registration etc, then start passing laws banning them in theaters, New York City, residential areas, etc. You'll wind up with 100 rich white survivalist gun owners who also own a million acres of land, 320 million gun-less civilians, and 30 million "criminals" owning guns, some of whom will kill a person in their lifetime and some who are perfectly law-abiding minus the guns part.

Because there's a lot of guns here already.

If that's response to me. Let me ask questions ( I can guess the answers)

First question:

Do you think that CCW should be unrestrictive.
CCW should be allowed only after a formal training.
CCW should be allowed only after a formal training and state certification.

Second question:

If a gun gets stolen the owner isn't responsible for any crime that it caused
The owner only responsible for the portion of the damages.
The owner has a full responsibility.

Third question:

Should be businesses be allowed to established their own rules:

1) yes, they could restrict guns in their establishments
2) no.




BTW NYC has CCW (rarely issued), and you can own a gun in your apartment (which is shall issue).


hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
July 31, 2012, 05:44:20 PM
A gun is a tool. A tool for self-defense.
A hammer is a tool. A tool for pounding pointy pieces of metal into wood.
A car is a tool. A tool for getting from place to place.

Can these tools be misused? Yes, yes they can.
Can they be used for violence? Yes, yes they can.
Should they, by that virtue, be outlawed? No, No they should not.

I don't have time to read retarded websites.

I think your mother may have something to say to you about your choice of words.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
July 31, 2012, 05:38:38 PM
In the U.S., "no, you're not 'supposed' to." Elsewhere, it is, and often is.

As for "not 'supposed' to," it can and will happen anyways. Put a huge tax on it, require $100K in licenses, papers, registration etc, then start passing laws banning them in theaters, New York City, residential areas, etc. You'll wind up with 100 rich white survivalist gun owners who also own a million acres of land, 320 million gun-less civilians, and 30 million "criminals" owning guns, some of whom will kill a person in their lifetime and some who are perfectly law-abiding minus the guns part.

Because there's a lot of guns here already.
Quoted for truth.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
0xFB0D8D1534241423
July 31, 2012, 05:34:34 PM
In the U.S., "no, you're not 'supposed' to." Elsewhere, it is, and often is.

As for "not 'supposed' to," it can and will happen anyways. Put a huge tax on it, require $100K in licenses, papers, registration etc, then start passing laws banning them in theaters, New York City, residential areas, etc. You'll wind up with 100 rich white survivalist gun owners who also own a million acres of land, 320 million gun-less civilians, and 30 million "criminals" owning guns, some of whom will kill a person in their lifetime and some who are perfectly law-abiding minus the guns part.

Because there's a lot of guns here already.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
July 31, 2012, 05:29:04 PM

Once again, Talk to Davi, not me. Better yet, check the numbers yourself. I doubt you'll trust any numbers I give you. I, however, am confident that any size set of data where the rampage shooting was stopped will show that civilians stopping the incident results in a lower casualty count than waiting for the police to show up. The difference would be even greater were injuries included, but they are not, for very good reasons, which are outlined in the article (did you read the link, even?)

I don't have time to read retarded websites.

As to the sniper incident, you've a point. That incident should be thrown out, for the same reason the shooting where two civilians helped the police apprehend a subject was. It isn't conclusively on either side of the data.

One more wrong data point. I strike again. And I don't have time to do research, unless you're willing to pay me.

Most of US states are gun friendly, so what are you trying to prove? There are few states that don't have shall issue ccw - 7 may issue and 2 no issue. So it's 39 states with shall issue (there are some states with may issue but in practice are shall issue). Out of NYS, only NYC is may (no issue) county. The rest of state is shall issue in practice.

Better switch the topic: Is it legal to forbid guns or not.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
July 31, 2012, 05:17:38 PM
Do me a favor, and at least come up with different excuses, k?
Still going on with this? I already pointed out two rampage shootings which weren't included.

Ah! well, that is at least different from what I predicted. For that, I thank you.

Adding those incidents (assuming they were not in the revised numbers), that brings the "stopped by cop" average down to... (drumroll)... 12.625. But it's all just irrelevant numbers, right?

LOL. There are a lot more, I am not doing your work. I've proven already that you have FAULTY numbers already.

Do the statistics properly including ALL rampage shooting and we will talk.

Also read each incident that you've posted, for an example "The sniper" incident had civilians shooting back at sniper and therefor fall into both categories.

Once again, Talk to Davi, not me. Better yet, check the numbers yourself. I doubt you'll trust any numbers I give you. I, however, am confident that any size set of data where the rampage shooting was stopped will show that civilians stopping the incident results in a lower casualty count than waiting for the police to show up. The difference would be even greater were injuries included, but they are not, for very good reasons, which are outlined in the article (did you read the link, even?)

As to the sniper incident, you've a point. That incident should be thrown out, for the same reason the shooting where two civilians helped the police apprehend a subject was. It isn't conclusively on either side of the data.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
July 31, 2012, 04:51:20 PM
Do me a favor, and at least come up with different excuses, k?
Still going on with this? I already pointed out two rampage shootings which weren't included.

Ah! well, that is at least different from what I predicted. For that, I thank you.

Adding those incidents (assuming they were not in the revised numbers), that brings the "stopped by cop" average down to... (drumroll)... 12.625. But it's all just irrelevant numbers, right?

LOL. There are a lot more, I am not doing your work. I've proven already that you have FAULTY numbers already.

Do the statistics properly including ALL rampage shooting and we will talk.

Also read each incident that you've posted, for an example "The sniper" incident had civilians shooting back at sniper and therefor fall into both categories.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
July 31, 2012, 04:45:54 PM
Do me a favor, and at least come up with different excuses, k?
Still going on with this? I already pointed out two rampage shootings which weren't included.

Ah! well, that is at least different from what I predicted. For that, I thank you.

Adding those incidents (assuming they were not in the revised numbers), that brings the "stopped by cop" average down to... (drumroll)... 12.625. But it's all just irrelevant numbers, right?
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
July 31, 2012, 04:42:31 PM
hero member
Activity: 950
Merit: 1001
July 31, 2012, 04:40:01 PM
The herd has spoken! One moos, and two more moo as well.

Uh oh.
It's a meme now!
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
July 31, 2012, 04:36:10 PM
Oh hey, look! Someone else also demanded an audit on that statistic I posted, so the Silver Circle guys re-did the statistics, examining 93 shootings, and got a slightly different number:

Since I know how lazy some of y'all can be, I've turned the image into a link to the tinyurl in the picture.

Now, again, this is a very specific dataset: rampage shootings where the shooter was stopped. Not where he quit on his own, either through suicide before the police arrived, or by walking away, but where the intervention of either civilians or police ended the shooting. So, go ahead, click the link, read the data and the explanation of it... and prepare your excuses.

My predictions: FirstAscent will say the numbers don't matter because they don't include accidents and single murders. Vampire will say the numbers don't matter because they are, after all, just numbers.

Do me a favor, and at least come up with different excuses, k?

Still going on with this? I already pointed out two rampage shootings which weren't included.

Keep posting crap.

Stopped by cops:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_Western_Reserve_University_shooting Stopped by police. 1 dead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickliffe_Middle_School_shooting 1 dead

I can look for more wiki ain't useful.

BTW when was the last time that anyone got shot in high school in NYC? Like 50s?
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
July 31, 2012, 04:28:44 PM
Oh hey, look! Someone else also demanded an audit on that statistic I posted, so the Silver Circle guys re-did the statistics, examining 93 shootings, and got a slightly different number:



Since I know how lazy some of y'all can be, I've turned the image into a link to the tinyurl in the picture.

Now, again, this is a very specific dataset: rampage shootings where the shooter was stopped. Not where he quit on his own, either through suicide before the police arrived, or by walking away, but where the intervention of either civilians or police ended the shooting. So, go ahead, click the link, read the data and the explanation of it... and prepare your excuses.

My predictions: FirstAscent will say the numbers don't matter because they don't include accidents and single murders. Vampire will say the numbers don't matter because they are, after all, just numbers.

Do me a favor, and at least come up with different excuses, k?
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
0xFB0D8D1534241423
July 31, 2012, 03:08:04 PM
The herd has spoken! One moos, and two more moo as well.
Moo moo to you too!

(I only rhyme some of the time)
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
July 31, 2012, 03:05:04 PM
The herd has spoken! One moos, and two more moo as well.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
July 31, 2012, 02:46:56 PM
If a death or injury is statistically significant, then many statistics have been prevented by me carrying my handgun.
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