Some interesting info floating around...
Rumor floating around that Genesis Mining is in partnership with Bitmain, that Genesis Mining owns up to 60% of GPU's from the last 5 latest GPU releases...
This info is actually interesting, ive never understood why Genesis Mining has stuck to GPU's for most of the expansions they have done to the warehouses.. It just seems more economical to purchase ASIC's for the contracts as they would be able to maintain them and operate them at a more dense operations, but it seems they mostly structure around the use of GPU's. So the rumor is that Bitmain is using its deep pockets on new GPU releases to buy out most of all supply for the first months, then using this period to push ASIC's to the public, which are marked up high enough to cover the cost of monopolizing the GPU supply in which they are able to sell them at a huge profit over time as the prices of GPU's skyrocket due to supply and demand.
Bitmain is splitting part of its business to Washington State......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3g726QtaM0
Topic: Happy New Years! Seventh alt coin thread! - page 43. (Read 34194 times)
will be interesting to see the moves getting done in the next 2 months in the war of asics vs gpus
Just remember
Asics = shit warranties from chinese companies
gpus = real warranties from companies like evga
and you 110% tdp miners stop already although I am sure you will go to 115%
Just remember
Asics = shit warranties from chinese companies
gpus = real warranties from companies like evga
and you 110% tdp miners stop already although I am sure you will go to 115%
Days after Bitmain has released the X3
DragonMint X1 (April)
From: $1,599.00
Cryptonite POW miner.
Algorithm: CryptoNight
Hashrate: 124kh/s
Power consumption: 245W
Shipping: April 25-30
Tolerance: 6%
DragonMint X1 (April)
From: $1,599.00
Cryptonite POW miner.
Algorithm: CryptoNight
Hashrate: 124kh/s
Power consumption: 245W
Shipping: April 25-30
Tolerance: 6%
The X16R algo, used by RVN/Ravencoin --- this coin rumored to be supported by Overstock.com
If this is not the ultimate Asics fighter.... I dont know what is!
X15 with one algorithm added, not that big of a deal for an ASIC.
It would get a LITTLE more complicated with the "order switch" stuff but not all THAT much so.
Not even close to being any more ASIC resistant than X15 is (note that the ORIGINAL Baikal did X15).
Does anyone in this experienced group know if it realistically possible that equihash can be "asiced" in the near future? I am familiar with the argument that anything can be with time, but don't know the technical details well enough to judge how close the zec devs came to long term asic resistance with equihash.
Massive amounts or RAM required makes it pretty resistant.
It's also generally strongly limited by memory access.
Neither is it an algo that profits massively from gddr/hbm speed (nor latency) from what I have experienced?...
3 GB is a lot more RAM than any FPLA has.
Might still be able to get away with 2GB on some of the "spinoff" coins though.
I think I read somewhere that Bitmain probably made more then Nvidia last year.
Rumored, but no HARD numbers are available for Bitmain.
Given they probably have a lot higher margin on their sales, their profits being higher than Nvidia in 2017 would be no shock.
--ypsi
https://shop.bitmain.com/
Edit: seems its only a sites glitch, they lowered price for 3K on batch 3
Does anyone in this experienced group know if it realistically possible that equihash can be "asiced" in the near future? I am familiar with the argument that anything can be with time, but don't know the technical details well enough to judge how close the zec devs came to long term asic resistance with equihash.
Massive amounts or RAM required makes it pretty resistant.
It's also generally strongly limited by memory access.
I also note that ETH specifically has been having the "ongoing work to move to POS" happening or being discussed as "going to happen" for a couple years or so now, which probably has limited the potential market for any ASIC for the algorithm.
Probably would have ALREADY happened if it wasn't for the DAO fiasco and the fixes and testing of the fixes to cure that sort of thing.
The X16R algo, used by RVN/Ravencoin --- this coin rumored to be supported by Overstock.com
If this is not the ultimate Asics fighter.... I dont know what is!
https://ravencoin.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/X16R-Whitepaper-3.pdf
The X16R hashing algorithm consists of 16 hashing algorithms operating in chain
fashion with the ordering dependent on the last 8 bytes (16 nibbles) of the hash of the
previous block. The algorithms are as follows:
0=blake
1=bmw
2=groestl
3=jh
4=keccak
5=skein
6=luffa
7=cubehash
8=shavite
9=simd
A=echo
B=hamsi
C=fugue
D=shabal
E=whirlpool
F=sha512
Example:
Previous Block Hash:
0000000000000000007e8a29f052ac2870045ae3970270f97da00919b8e86287
The final 8 bytes: 0x7da00919b8e86287
Each hex digit (nibble) determines which algorithm to use next.
cubehash -> shabal -> echo -> blake -> blake -> simd -> bmw -> simd -> hamsi ->
shavite -> whirlpool -> shavite -> luffa -> groestl -> shavite -> cubehash
I think I read somewhere that Bitmain probably made more then Nvidia last year.
Rumored, but no HARD numbers are available for Bitmain.
Given they probably have a lot higher margin on their sales, their profits being higher than Nvidia in 2017 would be no shock.
--ypsi
they where hold a ton of coins at the start of 2017 more then 40000 btc
so it was 900 a coin in jan 2017
it was 19000 a coin in dec 2017
and they added 40000 BCH which was worth 1500 in Dec 2017
so 40000 x 900 = 36,000,000
40000 x 20500 = 820,000,000
so just on the holding of coins for certain addresses they have that is a 750million profit
not counting anything sold.
BTW they have sold off coins in these addresses
So between Mt Gox and Bitmain coin sales this is the price drop for the market.
and a 2000usd s-9 costs .25 btc in march
a 3000 usd s-9 cost .15 btc in dec
so dropping price on coins gets them more coins on sales.
Does anyone in this experienced group know if it realistically possible that equihash can be "asiced" in the near future? I am familiar with the argument that anything can be with time, but don't know the technical details well enough to judge how close the zec devs came to long term asic resistance with equihash.
Massive amounts or RAM required makes it pretty resistant.
It's also generally strongly limited by memory access.
Neither is it an algo that profits massively from gddr/hbm speed (nor latency) from what I have experienced?...
No doubt some of the increase in hashrate is from the unprecedented success of compromising servers into XMR mining botnets, but come on, average network hashrate just 3 months ago was around 200 MH/s and now it is 1 GH/s. If half of that jump was from Vegas, and each Vega does 2 kH/s, then AMD must have sold
* - oops, I forgot to divide the 800 MH/s by 2...
200,000 isn't all that big of a sales number for what is by CURRENT standards a mid-upper range gaming card - I suspect NVidia has sold a lot more 1080 models than that out of the 15-20 MILLION discrete GPUs they sold in 2017, and AMD sales appear to also have been quite a bit over 10 million - a LOT of that going to ETH miners in 4Q 2017.
It says a lot to me about sudden demand when Newegg went from having a SALE on all Vega models to completely OUT 3 or 4 days later - a month BEFORE Xmas - right in the timeframe that the "big Vega Monero hashrate" guides were getting common.
Does anyone in this experienced group know if it realistically possible that equihash can be "asiced" in the near future? I am familiar with the argument that anything can be with time, but don't know the technical details well enough to judge how close the zec devs came to long term asic resistance with equihash.
Massive amounts or RAM required makes it pretty resistant.
It's also generally strongly limited by memory access.
I also note that ETH specifically has been having the "ongoing work to move to POS" happening or being discussed as "going to happen" for a couple years or so now, which probably has limited the potential market for any ASIC for the algorithm.
Probably would have ALREADY happened if it wasn't for the DAO fiasco and the fixes and testing of the fixes to cure that sort of thing.
I think I read somewhere that Bitmain probably made more then Nvidia last year.
Rumored, but no HARD numbers are available for Bitmain.
Given they probably have a lot higher margin on their sales, their profits being higher than Nvidia in 2017 would be no shock.
Does anyone in this experienced group know if it realistically possible that equihash can be "asiced" in the near future? I am familiar with the argument that anything can be with time, but don't know the technical details well enough to judge how close the zec devs came to long term asic resistance with equihash.
Its simple economics really. Bitmain may have made 100 000 ASICS, but if the total market is equivalent to 3000 ASICS (lets assume), then all they need to do is calculate how much they can add to the hashrate without dropping profitability too much relative to the price of the coin. So it would be much more profitable to simply gradually add 35% of total hashrate over 2-3 months and mine, and keep adding hashrate as the coin price rises. After a while you can sell all your machines but the point is at first its more profitable to keep the machines in the boxes. So perhaps they have been mining for a very long time now, but maybe someone else has made one (hint) and now they feel obligated to sell their used hardware as always.
In pretty sure this is what they have done with the D3, A3 and now this X3 the difference with the x3 is they got thier hands forced to swamp the market prematurely due to this hardfork. I bet if zcash announces a hardfork to change thier algo , a new Z3 miner will magically appear in the shitmain shop Its simple economics really. Bitmain may have made 100 000 ASICS, but if the total market is equivalent to 3000 ASICS (lets assume), then all they need to do is calculate how much they can add to the hashrate without dropping profitability too much relative to the price of the coin. So it would be much more profitable to simply gradually add 35% of total hashrate over 2-3 months and mine, and keep adding hashrate as the coin price rises. After a while you can sell all your machines but the point is at first its more profitable to keep the machines in the boxes. So perhaps they have been mining for a very long time now, but maybe someone else has made one (hint) and now they feel obligated to sell their used hardware as always.
I think this (and Magic Smoker's economic argument) cut to the heart of it--whatever maximizes their utility, they will have carefully calculated and executed. And possibly it is a matter of more cards, e.g. Vega shortage etc. AND something with asics--not mutually exclusive explanations, right?
legendary
Activity: 1848
Merit: 1166
My AR-15 ID's itself as a toaster. Want breakfast?
bitmain wants so much for the cryptonight miners; just because they only realized too late that they will basically become bricks....
Its simple economics really. Bitmain may have made 100 000 ASICS, but if the total market is equivalent to 3000 ASICS (lets assume), then all they need to do is calculate how much they can add to the hashrate without dropping profitability too much relative to the price of the coin. So it would be much more profitable to simply gradually add 35% of total hashrate over 2-3 months and mine, and keep adding hashrate as the coin price rises. After a while you can sell all your machines but the point is at first its more profitable to keep the machines in the boxes. So perhaps they have been mining for a very long time now, but maybe someone else has made one (hint) and now they feel obligated to sell their used hardware as always.
https://chainradar.com/xmr/chart
In situations like this I think it is helpful to look at this from a purely economic standpoint: what are the incentives to Bitmain/Baikal/etc. using their own miners before selling them vs. the costs. Since these are foreign companies with near-zero liability to, say, customers in the US or EU, they don't have to worry about individuals claiming they were sent a used or defective product; big farms, perhaps, but not individuals. Conversely, stealth mining the shit out of a high value coin like XMR with your hot new ASIC miner would be all but irresistible so there is a huge incentive to do so.
Frankly, the incentives grossly outweigh the costs, and so you are left with trusting companies like Bitmain and Baikal to act ethically. You can take that bet if you want, but I certainly won't.
The "Vega are huge monero miners" news got widespread in November - which is when Vega supply dried up VERY quickly and the hashrate climb started.
Then the "3'd party" cards hit in Febuary or so, likely feeding the second hashrate surge 'till the price spike collapsed and hashrate went flat.
I doubt Bitmain had a LOT of miners running in that timeframe, though I'm sure they had SOME "engineering sample" type miners running to test out.
Yeah, I definitely remember seeing all the Vega pumping, and I just as distinctly recall them disappearing from Newegg's stock in a matter of days... and ever since then they have only been sporadically available, and at ~2x MSRP (Newegg's price, not some janky reseller's).
No doubt some of the increase in hashrate is from the unprecedented success of compromising servers into XMR mining botnets, but come on, average network hashrate just 3 months ago was around 200 MH/s and now it is 1 GH/s. If half of that jump was from Vegas, and each Vega does 2 kH/s, then AMD must have sold ~400000 Vegas in less than 3 months. That doesn't sound realistic to me, as that would normally be a fantastic number of sales for the entire lifecycle (~2 years) of a flagship "gaming" GPU. Then again, I can't say I would be surprised to be proven utterly and totally wrong about this. Crypto kinda defies logic (just like dotcoms did 20 years ago).
400,000 vegas is 240,000,000 = 600 x 400,000 I would think that is more then they sold.
so maybe 10 tester prototypes then a small 100 unit run that is 110 which is the same as 20 x 110 = 2200 vegas
A good way to understand how many are mining as I type is list the hash rate every day til the al- gore - rhythm is altered
If it drops off by 20% odds are bitmain mined more then 110 units.
https://chainradar.com/xmr/chart
In situations like this I think it is helpful to look at this from a purely economic standpoint: what are the incentives to Bitmain/Baikal/etc. using their own miners before selling them vs. the costs. Since these are foreign companies with near-zero liability to, say, customers in the US or EU, they don't have to worry about individuals claiming they were sent a used or defective product; big farms, perhaps, but not individuals. Conversely, stealth mining the shit out of a high value coin like XMR with your hot new ASIC miner would be all but irresistible so there is a huge incentive to do so.
Frankly, the incentives grossly outweigh the costs, and so you are left with trusting companies like Bitmain and Baikal to act ethically. You can take that bet if you want, but I certainly won't.
The "Vega are huge monero miners" news got widespread in November - which is when Vega supply dried up VERY quickly and the hashrate climb started.
Then the "3'd party" cards hit in Febuary or so, likely feeding the second hashrate surge 'till the price spike collapsed and hashrate went flat.
I doubt Bitmain had a LOT of miners running in that timeframe, though I'm sure they had SOME "engineering sample" type miners running to test out.
Yeah, I definitely remember seeing all the Vega pumping, and I just as distinctly recall them disappearing from Newegg's stock in a matter of days... and ever since then they have only been sporadically available, and at ~2x MSRP (Newegg's price, not some janky reseller's).
No doubt some of the increase in hashrate is from the unprecedented success of compromising servers into XMR mining botnets, but come on, average network hashrate just 3 months ago was around 200 MH/s and now it is 1 GH/s. If half of that jump was from Vegas, and each Vega does 2 kH/s, then AMD must have sold
* - oops, I forgot to divide the 800 MH/s by 2...
People keep saying "bitmain mines with them for months before releasing them". In the case of Sia, someone said bitmain "clearly" mined for 45 days before releasing. I was there looking when Sia ASICs came out, I can for sure say that bitmain didn't mine a single day before shipping them, ASIC introduction is obvious in a small coin like Sia.
Now in the case of Monero, the entire network today is equivalent to about 4000 X3s. Clearly there is no room there for bitmain to have been "mining with the X3s for months".
Now in the case of Monero, the entire network today is equivalent to about 4000 X3s. Clearly there is no room there for bitmain to have been "mining with the X3s for months".
7000 more-or-less if you include ALL CN coins - but most of the extra is ETN which has also announced plans to change their algorithm.
Ballpark 500 if you count ALL of the CN coins combined except XMR and ETN.
No way Bitmain has been mining with thousands of X3 units for months, most of the hashrate growth happened in November-January timeframe can EASILY be explained by the timeframe of when those "Vega are crazy Monero miners" guides started popping up and when the massive Vega shortage hit.
The later jump in late Febuary MIGHT have been X3 production units going online, but some of it would be "Vegas from 3'd party manufactures become widely available for sale and are IN STOCK" even with the inflated pricing on most of those GPUs.
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