you never been to court have you? fight the battles that you can win not ones you want to win.. in fact anything you know you can't win you shouldn't even bring up. Go after what they said in the early refund responses
They attorneys taking it on contingency on the amounts above and beyond the offered settlements sure don't seem to agree with you. Everyone can also see the clear and explicit promises of 1:1 Bitcoin refunds both in public and in private communications. By all means, anyone who somehow didn't get the message that 1:1 refunds on failure were part of the deal and didn't make their purchasing decision because of it: take the settlement— leave the assets for the recovery of those of us who relied on the original terms. 
Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s - page 232. (Read 880461 times)
See above. "We sell our machines for BTC" ~ Hashfast.
It's still on the page. http://hashfast.com/miner-protection-program/
you never been to court have you? fight the battles that you can win not ones you want to win.. in fact anything you know you can't win you shouldn't even bring up. Go after what they said in the early refund responses
everyone can see the price of the miners were always on the site in $$$ and didn't fluctuate with the price of btc. you will get clowned in court if you go that route
unsolicited refunds for BTC orders?! wtf! someone needs to castrate these fuckers before they fuck anyone else.
The draft can easily be construed as a partial refund if it does not clearly state on the draft itself for refund in full.
To Me it sounds like they may have just royally screwed themselves and sent you guys a whole bunch of money to pay your Attorney with to get your BTC back... Wouldn't that be ironic 
You know what's is ironic? My hidden abilities to detect sockpuppets, that are ironic.Yes everyone, please cash out the check to pay for your lawyer. Moare BTC for me.
Btw, when my lawyer said not to do so, i've answered him that i'm stupid, yes, but not that stupid. So let's see who falls for it.
Re: people who requested a USD refund that paid with USD and they have yet to receive it, good luck with that contract you signed.
So later batches are likely to get the very same treatment.
I really want to see if they have the courage to expose themselves to that kind of legal procedures for the following batches as well. If they do so it means that we are all stupid, and that there is something like 1% of the customers requesting a proper refund.
Batch 1, Paid BTC, Canadian, and received an unsolicited USD refund cheque today.
Are you going to cash it?I don't think he has a choice.
They're really fucking us over.
Cashing one of these types of checks will be viewed by the courts as an accepted settlement; a draft is a signed contract.
The flip side is if you did not request a refund, specifically have not provided them with any signed documentation to that effect and paid in bitcoins, then they just sent you a check...
Personally, I would cash it, then demand a refund of my BTC as per contract. If their accountant goofed and sent you a check in error, then they need to get a refund from you.
Does not your contract state to be reimbursed in BTC?
Two wrongs don't make a right and certainly don't strengthen anyones case.
Please qualify your statement, define where in what I stated you believe is fraud-
And you are correct, two wrongs do not make a right. A 5% refund in lew of a contract is not right. As stated if the draft itself is not conditional, specifically stating it is for a refund, then it is the same thing as them handing you cash. What ever toilet paper came with it in the envelope doesn't matter. Just don't sign your rights away.
Further I always recommend consultation with a qualified professionally licensed individual.
To Me it sounds like they may have just royally screwed themselves and sent you guys a whole bunch of money to pay your Attorney with to get your BTC back... Wouldn't that be ironic
This is for a refund you requested.
It does not say "...this is part of your refund. (1 of 10)"
If you cash it, you are signifying you accept their payment + 5%.
============================
Gandalf, if they weren't worried about the legal stuff they wouldn't offer you 5% for free. They are giving you 5% on top of the value of the miner as a settlement.
If they had only given you the cost of the miner and no 5% it would have been clear they were playing hardball. They are instead just seemingly playing "dead possum" and hoping (to the love of God) that their customers are stupid enough to accept their 5% (which is actually almost -90% by the way).
If things go tits up and everyone decided to pursue other options, then HashFast is almost certainly done for. (Unless they can find 10 times their capital)
Batch 2 through 4 can kiss their own asses goodbye as a result.
People are either going to live up to HashFasts [I speculate] expectations, or they will be smarter than that.
============================
Accepting a check with a written notice as to what is for is not arbitration. You don't get to "invent" what you think the check is for. It is clearly spelled out what it is for. If you stand there in front of the judge stating your own arbitrary ideas and concepts about what the check was for and thought of using their own settlement money to persue a resolved dispute which you accepted....well...don't be surprised if you are laughed out of court.
You're not Dumb or Blonde Gandalf, so stop trying to lure idiots into the fire.
The individuals doc presented is for a requested refund; my original response was to an un requested refund.
The check itself is a contract that must bear the conditional upon it "Refund" or appropriate legalese to similar effect.
The purchase agreement is also a contract that in some cases defines refund in BTC.
The intent of the original instrument (purchase agreement) is clear
The intent of the draft be it properly labeled as such or not is clear
The draft does not abate the validity of the original separate instrument.
The draft can easily be construed as a partial refund if it does not clearly state on the draft itself for refund in full.
Consult your local consul, both legal and mental
Edit addendum: Note that nowhere on the front of the physical draft presented above is anything to the effect of refund of any sort; as far as the back goes??? Further the draft, from the photo, appears to be a separate document from the letter. It appears as it is not a tear off, but that it was simply set upon the letter for the photo.
Cura tibi est?
Anyone have any explanation for the VERY notable hashing rate bump seen on the network around the 6th? (gmaxwell just posted this above)
http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-10k.png
Looking historically, there has never been a rise that dramatic, and it's notable. It almost certainly has to be ASIC based. Don't be fooled by the scale, that's a major processing power increase.
I'd look next for what pool that climb came from.
http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-10k.png
Looking historically, there has never been a rise that dramatic, and it's notable. It almost certainly has to be ASIC based. Don't be fooled by the scale, that's a major processing power increase.
I'd look next for what pool that climb came from.
>>What's doubling interesting is the rate of growth after that date is also higher in general, as if machines are being added at a greater rate in general post that first dramatic spike/turn on.
>>Just sayin'.....looks an awful lot like a bunch of powerful asic machines were added at once, and more are being added day by day....just sayin'
>>Any other hardware manufacturers shipping then? It has to be asic based unless someone quite silly filled a few pods in a data center with non-asic computes that would cost buckets to run...eg doesnt' make sense, has to be asic.
>>It would be interesting to see if it's a single pool contributing that power and the rate increase.
Just a reminder that we saw 1-200Th/s uptick around the 6-9th of January in processing power, with overall rate day to day also going up. If I were someone who ordered in the later batches as well, this suggests to me they decided to just use the hardware for themselves (if this sudden uptick is from them). So later batches are likely to get the very same treatment. I think it's worth checking if this uptick is coming from a single pool and trying to peer into IP's in that pool if the owner allows it. If someone can point me in the right place to look, I'm happy to compare pools and see where this processing power uptick came from, as well as the increase in day to day growth.
I for one will not be cashing the check and am already in talks with an arbitrator.
Can you provide more details on this? I need to look into this as well.
According to the ToS we can only use AAA or JAMS. Have you contacted any of these? I'd also like to know more about associated cost & fees.
Quote
The arbitration shall be administered by the American Arbitration Association (AAA) or JAMS (or a substitute forum if both are unavailable).
Unless otherwise directed by the arbitrator(s), the parties will bear their own costs and expenses that are reasonable and necessary to participate in such arbitration, including attorneys’ fees.
Unless otherwise directed by the arbitrator(s), the parties will bear their own costs and expenses that are reasonable and necessary to participate in such arbitration, including attorneys’ fees.
The arbitration will only resolve the dispute. Even if you win, you still need to take steps to enforce it. From Wikipedia:
Quote
Unlike court judgments, arbitration awards themselves are not directly enforceable. A party seeking to enforce an arbitration award must resort to judicial remedies, called an action to "confirm" an award
Also arbitration seems to have a number of downsides:
Quote
Arbitration may be subject to pressures from powerful law firms representing the stronger and wealthier party
In some arbitration agreements, the parties are required to pay for the arbitrators, which adds an additional layer of legal cost that can be prohibitive, especially in small consumer disputes
In some arbitration agreements and systems, the recovery of attorneys' fees is unavailable, making it difficult or impossible for consumers or employees to get legal representation
In some arbitration agreements, the parties are required to pay for the arbitrators, which adds an additional layer of legal cost that can be prohibitive, especially in small consumer disputes
In some arbitration agreements and systems, the recovery of attorneys' fees is unavailable, making it difficult or impossible for consumers or employees to get legal representation
Never been through an arbitration process before so any advice would be appreciated.
In case anyone is keeping score, I did indeed receive a check for 2 x babyjet + 5% from a fedex envelope shipped priority overnight.
My current theory is that anyone that actually took the time to send a letter requesting a btc refund during the 15 day window is getting a payoff in the hopes that they will lose momentum and just cash the check.
My current theory is that anyone that actually took the time to send a letter requesting a btc refund during the 15 day window is getting a payoff in the hopes that they will lose momentum and just cash the check.
Good theory, but I got both my orders refunded and I didn't send them jack. I could understand a screw up with one of the orders, bit two separate orders is clearly intentional. Both were btc orders... I think the theory they are trying to reduce their liability on BTC orders is looking pretty likely. Unfortunately since they mandated btc on day one.... That is going to be a lot of unhappy hero members.
Then it's just the orders where they think they would lose in arbitration. As an example, I didn't complete my order on the website... it was done throught PM's with the Hashfast account (John) and at no point was USD mentioned.
Batch 1, Paid BTC, Canadian, and received an unsolicited USD refund cheque today.
Are you going to cash it?I don't think he has a choice.
They're really fucking us over.
Cashing one of these types of checks will be viewed by the courts as an accepted settlement; a draft is a signed contract.
The flip side is if you did not request a refund, specifically have not provided them with any signed documentation to that effect and paid in bitcoins, then they just sent you a check...
Personally, I would cash it, then demand a refund of my BTC as per contract. If their accountant goofed and sent you a check in error, then they need to get a refund from you.
Does not your contract state to be reimbursed in BTC?
Two wrongs don't make a right and certainly don't strengthen anyones case.
Please qualify your statement, define where in what I stated you believe is fraud-
And you are correct, two wrongs do not make a right. A 5% refund in lew of a contract is not right. As stated if the draft itself is not conditional, specifically stating it is for a refund, then it is the same thing as them handing you cash. What ever toilet paper came with it in the envelope doesn't matter. Just don't sign your rights away.
Further I always recommend consultation with a qualified professionally licensed individual.
To Me it sounds like they may have just royally screwed themselves and sent you guys a whole bunch of money to pay your Attorney with to get your BTC back... Wouldn't that be ironic
It says it right there in black and white.This is for a refund you requested.
It does not say "...this is part of your refund. (1 of 10)"
If you cash it, you are signifying you accept their payment + 5%.
============================
Gandalf, if they weren't worried about the legal stuff they wouldn't offer you 5% for free. They are giving you 5% on top of the value of the miner as a settlement.
If they had only given you the cost of the miner and no 5% it would have been clear they were playing hardball. They are instead just seemingly playing "dead possum" and hoping (to the love of God) that their customers are stupid enough to accept their 5% (which is actually almost -90% by the way).
If things go tits up and everyone decided to pursue other options, then HashFast is almost certainly done for. (Unless they can find 10 times their capital)
Batch 2 through 4 can kiss their own asses goodbye as a result.
People are either going to live up to HashFasts [I speculate] expectations, or they will be smarter than that.
============================
Accepting a check with a written notice as to what it is for is not arbitration. You don't get to "invent" what you think the check is for. It is clearly spelled out what it is for. If you stand there in front of the judge stating your own arbitrary ideas and concepts about what the check was for and thought of using their own settlement money to persue a resolved dispute which you accepted....well...don't be surprised if you are laughed out of court.
You're not Dumb or Blonde Gandalf, so stop trying to lure idiots into the fire.
In case anyone is keeping score, I did indeed receive a check for 2 x babyjet + 5% from a fedex envelope shipped priority overnight.
My current theory is that anyone that actually took the time to send a letter requesting a btc refund during the 15 day window is getting a payoff in the hopes that they will lose momentum and just cash the check.
My current theory is that anyone that actually took the time to send a letter requesting a btc refund during the 15 day window is getting a payoff in the hopes that they will lose momentum and just cash the check.
Good theory, but I got both my orders refunded and I didn't send them jack. I could understand a screw up with one of the orders, bit two separate orders is clearly intentional. Both were btc orders... I think the theory they are trying to reduce their liability on BTC orders is looking pretty likely. Unfortunately since they mandated btc on day one.... That is going to be a lot of unhappy hero members.
Who's prices were in USD?
just trying to keep you guys from chasing a red herring. Go after their lies on the refund not on saying that btc>$$ should come back btc in full.
I never seen them advertise a BTC price on their web or cart. There were some that dealt with them directly and got some btc price quote in their emails with them, but was that btc listed on an invoice next to the hardware or was it in $$$?
See above. "We sell our machines for BTC" ~ Hashfast.
It's still on the page. http://hashfast.com/miner-protection-program/
Who's prices were in USD?
just trying to keep you guys from chasing a red herring. Go after their lies on the refund not on saying that btc>$$ should come back btc in full.
I never seen them advertise a BTC price on their web or cart. There were some that dealt with them directly and got some btc price quote in their emails with them, but was that btc listed on an invoice next to the hardware or was it in $$$?
There really has to be a chicken cow or horse law still on the books
If i pay you ten chickens
You screw me over
I am clearly owed the value today of 10 chickens or 10 chickens
If i pay you ten chickens
You screw me over
I am clearly owed the value today of 10 chickens or 10 chickens
did you invest or buy something? the price was in $$ so this doesn't hold.
BUT, their lying asses assured people they would actually get all their bitcoins back.. that is what you need to focus on.
Who's prices were in USD?
Quote
If BTC value doubles against the dollar, are you still going to give me up to four times my original capacity?
Yes. The entire MPP program is based on BTC, which is a key reason we sell our machines for BTC. The increase in BTC-to-USD exchange rates may mean that you achieve fantastic ROI, even though your Baby Jet doesn’t generate the amount of Bitcoin you paid for it. We ignore that in our MPP calculations, and will give you additional hashing capacity even though you achieved ROI on a USD basis.
Yes. The entire MPP program is based on BTC, which is a key reason we sell our machines for BTC. The increase in BTC-to-USD exchange rates may mean that you achieve fantastic ROI, even though your Baby Jet doesn’t generate the amount of Bitcoin you paid for it. We ignore that in our MPP calculations, and will give you additional hashing capacity even though you achieved ROI on a USD basis.
http://hashfast.com/miner-protection-program/
"We sell our machines for BTC"
That is not USD.
Batch 1, Paid BTC, Canadian, and received an unsolicited USD refund cheque today.
Are you going to cash it?I don't think he has a choice.
They're really fucking us over.
Cashing one of these types of checks will be viewed by the courts as an accepted settlement; a draft is a signed contract.
The flip side is if you did not request a refund, specifically have not provided them with any signed documentation to that effect and paid in bitcoins, then they just sent you a check...
Personally, I would cash it, then demand a refund of my BTC as per contract. If their accountant goofed and sent you a check in error, then they need to get a refund from you.
Does not your contract state to be reimbursed in BTC?
Two wrongs don't make a right and certainly don't strengthen anyones case.
Please qualify your statement, define where in what I stated you believe is fraud-
And you are correct, two wrongs do not make a right. A 5% refund in lew of a contract is not right. As stated if the draft itself is not conditional, specifically stating it is for a refund, then it is the same thing as them handing you cash. What ever toilet paper came with it in the envelope doesn't matter. Just don't sign your rights away.
Further I always recommend consultation with a qualified professionally licensed individual.
To Me it sounds like they may have just royally screwed themselves and sent you guys a whole bunch of money to pay your Attorney with to get your BTC back... Wouldn't that be ironic
In case anyone is keeping score, I did indeed receive a check for 2 x babyjet + 5% from a fedex envelope shipped priority overnight.
My current theory is that anyone that actually took the time to send a letter requesting a btc refund during the 15 day window is getting a payoff in the hopes that they will lose momentum and just cash the check.
I for one will not be cashing the check and am already in talks with an arbitrator. I personally will not rest until I either have my btc back, or an impartial 3rd party (arbitrator) says that I am not actually due a full and complete refund (doubtful).
For those that have yet to act:
1) Send your refund demand letter by the 15th certified post... Get that shit time stamped.
2) Contact an arbitrator in the S.F. CA area.
My current theory is that anyone that actually took the time to send a letter requesting a btc refund during the 15 day window is getting a payoff in the hopes that they will lose momentum and just cash the check.
I for one will not be cashing the check and am already in talks with an arbitrator. I personally will not rest until I either have my btc back, or an impartial 3rd party (arbitrator) says that I am not actually due a full and complete refund (doubtful).
For those that have yet to act:
1) Send your refund demand letter by the 15th certified post... Get that shit time stamped.
2) Contact an arbitrator in the S.F. CA area.
There really has to be a chicken cow or horse law still on the books
If i pay you ten chickens
You screw me over
I am clearly owed the value today of 10 chickens or 10 chickens
If i pay you ten chickens
You screw me over
I am clearly owed the value today of 10 chickens or 10 chickens
did you invest or buy something? the price was in $$ so this doesn't hold.
BUT, their lying asses assured people they would actually get all their bitcoins back.. that is what you need to focus on.
There really has to be a chicken cow or horse law still on the books
If i pay you ten chickens
You screw me over
I am clearly owed the value today of 10 chickens or 10 chickens
Based on your example of proper logic....If i pay you ten chickens
You screw me over
I am clearly owed the value today of 10 chickens or 10 chickens
You paid 50 BTC to HashFast for a device.
HashFast failed to give you the device in a reasonable period. (x3)
HashFast then gave you the equivalent USD value of the Miner rather than the original BTC.
Hence, you can probably guesstimate...that may be why they put the breaks on "raising the price" of their Miners a few days ago.
Shrewd move.
Batch 1, Paid BTC, Canadian, and received an unsolicited USD refund cheque today.
Are you going to cash it?I don't think he has a choice.
They're really fucking us over.
Cashing one of these types of checks will be viewed by the courts as an accepted settlement; a draft is a signed contract.
The flip side is if you did not request a refund, specifically have not provided them with any signed documentation to that effect and paid in bitcoins, then they just sent you a check...
Personally, I would cash it, then demand a refund of my BTC as per contract. If their accountant goofed and sent you a check in error, then they need to get a refund from you.
Does not your contract state to be reimbursed in BTC?
Two wrongs don't make a right and certainly don't strengthen anyones case.
Batch 1, Paid BTC, Canadian, and received an unsolicited USD refund cheque today.
Are you going to cash it?I don't think he has a choice.
They're really fucking us over.
Cashing one of these types of checks will be viewed by the courts as an accepted settlement; a draft is a signed contract.
The flip side is if you did not request a refund, specifically have not provided them with any signed documentation to that effect, paid in bitcoins, and the draft has nothing resembling a Conditional then they just sent you a check...
Personally, I would cash it and demand a refund of my BTC as per contract. If their accountant goofed and sent you a check in error, then they need to get a refund from you.
Does not your contract state to be reimbursed in BTC?
EDIT: Is their not a cancellation clause in the sales agreement that permits them to cancel a transaction at any time? A business has the right to refuse service to anyone at any time.
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