HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s - page 398.

amer

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Quote from: crumbs on December 09, 2013, 12:56:58 PM

You're needlessly complicating this. If refunds in BTC were impossible or even improbable -- for any reason -- such refunds should not have been offered. Making impossible promises has a name: it's called lying.
This is trivial stuff.

Until a refund is issued, it's unclear what HF will actually do. Maybe BTC will drop to $100 in 3 weeks and then they'll repay everyone in BTC and we can all feel stupid about wasting 30 pages of this post on it.

I think the only point being made is that there is no legal requirement to refund in BTC, only a reputation one. Regardless they're breaking trust, not the law.

RHA

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Quote from: 1l1l11ll1l on December 09, 2013, 01:33:45 PM

Not sure why they would post a video of the assembly failing, knocks a capacitor over.

The reasons may be different:
a) To explain why it is still not hashing.
b) It was posted by a mistake (it was not the best one)..
c) It was the best of all made (only two capacitors misplaced), yet they promised a video.
...

1l1l11ll1l

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Quote from: joshv06 on December 08, 2013, 06:01:02 AM

All i'm saying is the light at the end of the tunnel, and the total delay time was 1.5months-2months. They're pressed to ship this month due to their TOS.

Though it sucks, the reality that pre-ordering asics is one of the only ways to stay in the mining game. The reality with that also is chance of delay, the company not delivering at all, or of course an outright scam.

While waiting for my 2 BFL single pre-orders, we were in a similar situation as now. Price was skyrocketing, except then difficulty was low. Under 100 mil. Yes there is the "I could have made so much $" But it's a roll of the dice with ASIC companies.

New video by HashFast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rl6L8nt3Hc&feature=youtu.be

Not sure why they would post a video of the assembly failing, knocks a capacitor over.

perezoso

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Seems almost certain that all this talk about refunds is moot. Hashfast will almost certainly ship the batch 1 machines out before December 31st.

The real question is what they are going to to make their 1st batch customers whole - when it appears that 400% more hashrate, even if shipped on 31 January, won't ROI.

A preemptive STFU to the idiots out there who are about to reply "all they committed to was 400%, can't you read the MPP?"

We know what the context of the MPP was and we have many statements from HF about the MPP and some that raise serious questions about their honesty about being "on track" for October.

Under the circumstances, HF is going to have to do more than what the letter of the MPP arguably states (note: arguably). Or else they get a motivated batch of really pissed off people after their hides.

I think, hope that they will come up with an adequate solution to the situation such that Batch 1 investors at least recoup their investment in BTC terms.

crumbs

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Quote from: bitcoinermax on December 09, 2013, 12:28:22 PM

To all the clever clogs on this forum who claim HF should have hedged BTC in order to provide BTC refunds, can you please explain how you think this can be done in the absence of a proper forward market for BTC? And if you do know of such a market, then please enlighten the rest of us.

You might also want to pause and consider for a moment - if the co had kept the BTC, how do you think they funded the design and production of the chip and what do you think it costs to fund such a thing? And why do you think all of these companies need pre sales if not to pay for their chip development? this applies not only for HF but also their competitors. if any of the ASIC companies were so well funded that pre sales are not required, then they would either have sold the gear at higher prices or the 1st anyone would know of them is when the hash rate spiked up....

You're needlessly complicating this. If refunds in BTC were impossible or even improbable -- for any reason -- such refunds should not have been offered. Making impossible promises has a name: it's called lying.
This is trivial stuff.

Gyrsur

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Quote from: bitcoinermax on December 09, 2013, 12:28:22 PM

To all the clever clogs on this forum who claim HF should have hedged BTC in order to provide BTC refunds, can you please explain how you think this can be done in the absence of a proper forward market for BTC? And if you do know of such a market, then please enlighten the rest of us.

You might also want to pause and consider for a moment - if the co had kept the BTC, how do you think they funded the design and production of the chip and what do you think it costs to fund such a thing? And why do you think all of these companies need pre sales if not to pay for their chip development? this applies not only for HF but also their competitors. if any of the ASIC companies were so well funded that pre sales are not required, then they would either have sold the gear at higher prices or the 1st anyone would know of them is when the hash rate spiked up....

if you can't hedge or save the funds of the batch one customers (especially if you claimed to give the refund in the order currency) use USD. did they pay the necessary steps after the orders with BTC. I dont think so. so no need to receive BTC from customers. time pressure? it seems not because no devices are delivered so far. normal wire transfer would did the job.

their marketing was great. the best of all ASIC producers with MPP. but now they have to deliver. "put your money where your mouth is" HF!

bitcoinermax

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To all the clever clogs on this forum who claim HF should have hedged BTC in order to provide BTC refunds, can you please explain how you think this can be done in the absence of a proper forward market for BTC? And if you do know of such a market, then please enlighten the rest of us.

You might also want to pause and consider for a moment - if the co had kept the BTC, how do you think they funded the design and production of the chip and what do you think it costs to fund such a thing? And why do you think all of these companies need pre sales if not to pay for their chip development? this applies not only for HF but also their competitors. if any of the ASIC companies were so well funded that pre sales are not required, then they would either have sold the gear at higher prices or the 1st anyone would know of them is when the hash rate spiked up....

cedivad

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Quote from: minternj on December 09, 2013, 12:04:08 PM

I guess you didnt see that post from hashfast_cl. Can't dig it up at the moment.

Np, i have time to lose atm, i will be happy to search for it...

Ok, can't find anything but this:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3316933

minternj

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Quote from: cedivad on December 09, 2013, 12:02:40 PM

Quote from: minternj on December 09, 2013, 11:58:58 AM

Anyway, hashfast still no word on what mining controller is coming with the Baby Jet? Or is this another woopsie item?

I told you already, back in the early days they said that the controller of the BJ would be a RPi (raspberry pi).

I guess you didnt see that post from hashfast_cl. Can't dig it up at the moment.

cedivad

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Quote from: minternj on December 09, 2013, 11:58:58 AM

Anyway, hashfast still no word on what mining controller is coming with the Baby Jet? Or is this another woopsie item?

I told you already, back in the early days they said that the controller of the BJ would be a RPi (raspberry pi).

minternj

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Ughh.. thanks for you legal expertise seriouscoin. Can i constitute this as legal advice?

Anyway, hashfast still no word on what mining controller is coming with the Baby Jet? Or is this another woopsie item?

Gyrsur

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Quote from: seriouscoin on December 09, 2013, 11:54:18 AM

Quote from: Gyrsur on December 09, 2013, 11:45:38 AM

Quote from: seriouscoin on December 09, 2013, 11:39:55 AM

Quote from: cedivad on December 09, 2013, 11:35:43 AM

Quote from: seriouscoin on December 09, 2013, 11:29:05 AM

No they cant refund everyone with the same amount of btc..... its not feasible. Gee.... stupid as stupid does.

The only problem in your thinking is that they repeated several times that they would refund the same amount of BTC if they failed to ship (remember when that user went to visit them and he repeated that john said so, repeatedly?)

The only problem with your saying is that..... you trust their words. Even if its not feasible.

What do you think the pre-order fund is for?

not our problem. I be a customer not an investor. they got VC's to do the business as they claimed. I have no symphaty anymore after this long time of period of delay. they defined for theirselve a hard cut by 31 December of 2013 which was in their comfort zone. no understanding anymore as I said.

I hope they will refund you the amount of BTC that you paid.

Legally they dont have to.

you have to request this until 15 January 2014 as the contract said.

btw. i have no history with you. the thread is for customers which have issues with HF to discuss how to proceed with the issues. I have no time to discuss for entertainment. sorry.

cedivad

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Anyway the real problem with BTC refunds is that even if they where to happen, HF would buy KNC miners on the market, rebrand them and ship them by the end of the year instead of admitting to be over their deadline and issue BTC refunds.

So even if HF was legit, they are not gonna happen.

(and at that point you would be screwed because your MPP would be delivered in 2015, but that's another story).

seriouscoin

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Quote from: Gyrsur on December 09, 2013, 11:48:03 AM

Quote from: seriouscoin on December 09, 2013, 11:44:27 AM

Quote from: Gyrsur on December 09, 2013, 11:34:57 AM

Quote from: seriouscoin on December 09, 2013, 11:29:05 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Gyrsur on December 09, 2013, 11:01:08 AM

Quote from: cedivad on December 09, 2013, 10:59:34 AM

They had one whole day to test it, and i expected some screaming results from their twitter account by now... Makes me wonder... USD refunds for everyone!

paid with BTC, order ack is in BTC, refund will be in BTC.

This is the only reason I ordered first batch.

If any of you expect that, you're all idiots.

They only use btc as payment system, not currency.

No they cant refund everyone with the same amount of btc..... its not feasible. Gee.... stupid as stupid does.

wrong. order is in BTC not in USD. paid BTC to a normal address not with BitPay. they have to hedge against the risk.

EDIT: paid also as a life time member to the Bitcoin foundation to a normal address. the amount is still in the address. but HF was so "clever" to transfer the amount out right after the payment.

Just because you paid to a "normal" address doesnt mean they keep your btc. They're not in currency business unless .... thats what they're doing from the beginning and this whole mining project is just to get free-loan.

wrong. they do foreign exchange business and have to hedge against the risk if they claim to give refund in the currency you paid. no interpretation gap.

The same interpretation that they "guarantee" ROI in BTC?

Please dont make me laugh..... i dont want to be seen as a devil here.

seriouscoin

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Quote from: Gyrsur on December 09, 2013, 11:45:38 AM

Quote from: seriouscoin on December 09, 2013, 11:39:55 AM

Quote from: cedivad on December 09, 2013, 11:35:43 AM

Quote from: seriouscoin on December 09, 2013, 11:29:05 AM

No they cant refund everyone with the same amount of btc..... its not feasible. Gee.... stupid as stupid does.

The only problem in your thinking is that they repeated several times that they would refund the same amount of BTC if they failed to ship (remember when that user went to visit them and he repeated that john said so, repeatedly?)

The only problem with your saying is that..... you trust their words. Even if its not feasible.

What do you think the pre-order fund is for?

not our problem. I be a customer not an investor. they got VC's to do the business as they claimed. I have no symphaty anymore after this long time of period of delay. they defined for theirselve a hard cut by 31 December of 2013 which was in their comfort zone. no understanding anymore as I said.

I hope they will refund you the amount of BTC that you paid.

Legally they dont have to.

Gyrsur

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Quote from: seriouscoin on December 09, 2013, 11:44:27 AM

Quote from: Gyrsur on December 09, 2013, 11:34:57 AM

Quote from: seriouscoin on December 09, 2013, 11:29:05 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Gyrsur on December 09, 2013, 11:01:08 AM

Quote from: cedivad on December 09, 2013, 10:59:34 AM

They had one whole day to test it, and i expected some screaming results from their twitter account by now... Makes me wonder... USD refunds for everyone!

paid with BTC, order ack is in BTC, refund will be in BTC.

This is the only reason I ordered first batch.

If any of you expect that, you're all idiots.

They only use btc as payment system, not currency.

No they cant refund everyone with the same amount of btc..... its not feasible. Gee.... stupid as stupid does.

wrong. order is in BTC not in USD. paid BTC to a normal address not with BitPay. they have to hedge against the risk.

EDIT: paid also as a life time member to the Bitcoin foundation to a normal address. the amount is still in the address. but HF was so "clever" to transfer the amount out right after the payment.

Just because you paid to a "normal" address doesnt mean they keep your btc. They're not in currency business unless .... thats what they're doing from the beginning and this whole mining project is just to get free-loan.

wrong. they do foreign exchange business and have to hedge against the risk if they claim to give refund in the currency you paid. no interpretation gap.

Gyrsur

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Quote from: seriouscoin on December 09, 2013, 11:39:55 AM

Quote from: cedivad on December 09, 2013, 11:35:43 AM

Quote from: seriouscoin on December 09, 2013, 11:29:05 AM

No they cant refund everyone with the same amount of btc..... its not feasible. Gee.... stupid as stupid does.

The only problem in your thinking is that they repeated several times that they would refund the same amount of BTC if they failed to ship (remember when that user went to visit them and he repeated that john said so, repeatedly?)

The only problem with your saying is that..... you trust their words. Even if its not feasible.

What do you think the pre-order fund is for?

not our problem. I be a customer not an investor. they got VC's to do the business as they claimed. I have no symphaty anymore after this long time of period of delay. they defined for theirselve a hard cut by 31 December of 2013 which was in their comfort zone. no understanding anymore as I said.

seriouscoin

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Quote from: cedivad on December 09, 2013, 11:43:32 AM

Quote from: seriouscoin on December 09, 2013, 11:39:55 AM

The only problem with your saying is that..... you trust their words.

I haven't trusted a single word of them since when they delayed the october delivery with no proof of anything. No, i don't trust them. I'm just trying to point out the reasons people expects BTC refunds. You can't call them stupid for that. You can bet that it's gonna be really funny if they delay and forget to refund the BTC equivalent.

Yes i can call them stupid for believing such unfeasible thing

seriouscoin

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Quote from: Gyrsur on December 09, 2013, 11:34:57 AM

Quote from: seriouscoin on December 09, 2013, 11:29:05 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Gyrsur on December 09, 2013, 11:01:08 AM

Quote from: cedivad on December 09, 2013, 10:59:34 AM

They had one whole day to test it, and i expected some screaming results from their twitter account by now... Makes me wonder... USD refunds for everyone!

paid with BTC, order ack is in BTC, refund will be in BTC.

This is the only reason I ordered first batch.

If any of you expect that, you're all idiots.

They only use btc as payment system, not currency.

No they cant refund everyone with the same amount of btc..... its not feasible. Gee.... stupid as stupid does.

wrong. order is in BTC not in USD. paid BTC to a normal address not with BitPay. they have to hedge against the risk.

EDIT: paid also as a life time member to the Bitcoin foundation to a normal address. the amount is still in the address. but HF was so "clever" to transfer the amount out right after the payment.

Just because you paid to a "normal" address doesnt mean they keep your btc. They're not in currency business unless .... thats what they're doing from the beginning and this whole mining project is just to get free-loan.

cedivad

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Quote from: seriouscoin on December 09, 2013, 11:39:55 AM

The only problem with your saying is that..... you trust their words.

I haven't trusted a single word of them since when they delayed the october delivery with no proof of anything. No, i don't trust them. I'm just trying to point out the reasons people expects BTC refunds. You can't call them stupid for that. You can bet that it's gonna be really funny if they delay and forget to refund the BTC equivalent.

Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s - page 398. (Read 880461 times)