Topic: ► ► ►HashFast Endorsement - page 23. (Read 36924 times)

Marines.

The hashfast shopping cart appears to be broken...

the simple fact that the BabyJets will be water cooled will factor in hugely in my own cost equations.  now i can store these things at home w/o the wife having a conniption.  no more data centers and no more bothering my office occupants.

It currently is the best deal out there, so I put in an order for one and I might get lucky if they deliver as they state.

If stock stays available and BTC appreciates, I may double down.  Kind of sucks that bitpay doesn't use Mt.Gox's higher exchange rate, but they need to be able to pull money out of Gox in a timely way to be a reasonable data source for them.

Getting back on topic, personally I have no issues with Cypherdoc is a paid endorser/board member/whatever with HashFast.  He made it clear that he is more than just casually involved with the company.  That disclosure is more than you get from a lot of folks here on the forum.

I know this may be OT a fair bit but I think this is to generic of a statement and I can actually see why a company would want to retail a product vs mining with it if they funded NRE and production privately.

I mean I see mining as a bullish bet on BTC.  As it takes time to convert the sunk capital cost of the hardware to BTC until the BE point and then hopefully a profit (why wait for mined BTC if you don't believe price will increase).  Not to mention you lose the ability use that capital for anything else until the mined coins return over time.
[/quote]

The other option, of course is to sell you equipment at prices that will be unprofitable for their customers.  

For chips on hand, you simply charge a crazy rate. Like people trying to charge $19k for Avalon clones.

But there's another way to do it without appearing to charge exorbitant rates. Let's say you make a cheap ASIC, 10gh/s chip and order 1 million of them, at a cost of $5/chip.  That's 5Ph/s. At most, you could take 90% of the network, and make a couple million dollars a year. Mining.

or you could take orders at what seems like a really good rate right now: $5/Gh/s. That's $50 a chip or $2500 for a 50 chip 500Gh/s unit.

Seems crazy good, but, what people don't realize is that once all the chips ship the difficulty will go up by over 900% just from your chips alone.  

What you want to do, then, is maximize the time between when you take orders, and when you ship in order to take as many pre-orders as possible.

Then, think BFL: They keep talking about how they're the ones driving up the difficulty and that it doesn't make sense for their customers to complain, because if they ship faster the diff will just go up more quickly (while also claiming KnC and all their other future competitors will fail like they did, so no need to worry).

Butterfly labs sold units basically knowing full well that their customers would never make ROI, simply because of the volume of orders they took.

Now, the problem of course is that not only can you rip people off if you fund the chips yourself, you can also rip people off and crowd-fund a design. Which is what BFL did.

In any event, I think the price here is a little too high given the risk both that they'll fail, and the risk none of their competitors will.

Oh this is just getting ugly now.  Great way to rock out a product endorsement!   

did you bother to announce how much you were charging Horserider to sell his unit?  if not, why not?

Fixed. And if you want anyone to take you seriously, announce your contract, remuneration and terms surround your 'support'.

I know this may be OT a fair bit but I think this is to generic of a statement and I can actually see why a company would want to retail a product vs mining with it if they funded NRE and production privately.

I mean I see mining as a bullish bet on BTC.  As it takes time to convert the sunk capital cost of the hardware to BTC until the BE point and then hopefully a profit (why wait for mined BTC if you don't believe price will increase).  Not to mention you lose the ability use that capital for anything else until the mined coins return over time.

That being said lets say there was a company that was already set up in the electronics manufacturing world, had retail and distribution, customer service, logistics infrastructure all in place humming along.  They could conceivably add a line of miners to their catalogue.  Now for such a company they don't have the resources on hand for mining farm (professional services required to set up basically a DC and manage it 24/7), they many not want to spend the capital, take time to learn, time to manage etc setting up a mine but could easily make a profit selling units to miners.  Now this same company isn't a hard core bitcoin supporter and doesn't like the volatility of BTC prices AND would rather have cash in hand for a miner sale (1 in the hand is worth 2 in the bush so to speak) than plug it in and wait for it to return the investment (maybe) all the while your monthly revenues go down (until saturation point) or increasing monthly costs to maintain your HR share.

The company has now made a profit without mining and has minimised their own risk at the same time.  I think a lot of folks are coming at this from a POV that only a miner can make an ASIC therefore they will all pre-order or mine.  I think its clear at this point the majority (if not all current players) may do this but that doesn't mean that no other method is viable.

The only people with a "high risk, low reward" approach are idiots.

It essentially is as I said, one's own personal risk tolerance. Some people might have a high risk low reward approach. That's not the best approach but it is an approach.

Same chance as before. Look how many millions BFL took in. Look how many millions Avalon took in just for it's chips.

Either the chips are going to work right, and they'll execute on PCB, cases and shipping, or they won't.  Having more money isn't going to change much, since everything needs to be in place at once.

It might mean they're able to fix problems that cause delays more quickly. But a month or two of delays is still going to be deadly.

Depends on how you define failure, delivering late could be almost as bad as not delivering. Also, those guys need to meet their funding targets first in order to pay HashFast.

actually i just thought of something.  duh.

that Icedrill/Digimex contract must be worth $millions.  i'm sure HashFast got a big chunk of cash upfront for that order. 

now what is the chance that they'll fail given that?

if you read my comments above i think those cover the gist of what you should really be concerned about.  i've been told up, down, left and right that this is what they will promise.  i've even seen it written out in internal docs.  but whether or not they'll have the money to do a refund if the end of year rolls around is the risk you take.

i've taken the risk. i've bought 8 units myself.

Cute coordination / tag team endorsement / open pre-order play... creative..

I did, twice, already. Also asked Simon. You're the only one who answered, so far, thank you!

I don't know if the price is actually all that good.  As I pointed out elsewhere, it's about 7x as expensive as a B2 Avalon relative to the current difficulty.

When KnC started taking orders, you also didn't have the constellation of other ASIC vendors all planning to dump their hashrate at the same time.

Doesn't mean it's a bad deal in the long run. We'll have to see.

Kouye, you should ask John Skrodenis your questions.  i can only go so far as i am not a rep or employee.

Probably more than my questions, I guess