Topic: ► ► ►HashFast Endorsement - page 19. (Read 36908 times)

Crumbs where do you come to the conclusion that Simon wasnt a hardware guy? Seems like his credentials are pretty solid to me from an engineering standpoint.

When it comes to hardware that's supposed to make money, and people on the interwebz asking me for my money, in a forum about money, i suppose you're right.


The thread title -- HashFast Endorsement, is fairly self-explanatory.  You're offered up as a messenger (to be shot in lieu of star actors, or, at least, attract the flack), and this thread is a perfect buffer zone to corral exchanges like the one we're having.  In other words, this is the toe-in-the-water thread.  Now's the time to lay the groundwork, steeples come later.


The beautiful thing about not having to market my reputation as you are doing in this thread is this:  I couldn't care less if it's tarnished.  If i ever need to get a sterling reputation for business reasons, accounts such as yours are bought & sold for a coin or two.  Sterling reputation.


Simon, as i understand it, is anything *but* a hardware guy.  Perhaps as a hobby?


Which companies, exactly, are you talking about?  Please name a couple.


What does an ASIC designer need to know about the inner workings of bitcoin?  Does knowledge & love of the bitcoin economy help in optimising the hashing algorithm?  Exactly what aspect of ASIC design requires *any* knowledge of bitcoin, beyond the hashing?  You realize that this is exactly the shilling i'm talking about -- meaningless grandstanding and empty verbiage obfuscating the lack of substance.  There is no cat.  There is no cradle.


What does that even mean?  How is their ASIC any different from other ASICs, as far as bitcoin economy as a whole is concerned?


In that case accepting a paid position is simply foolish, as is investing in miners.  You should have simply donated the money to HashFast & volunteered your time.  As it stands, denying you're a paid shill is impossible.   You are heavily biased both by your investment in the miners & are *obligated as a spokesperson* to promote HashFast.  If HashFast is, OTOH, paying you to speak your mind and ask potentially damaging questions, i have to question their sanity & will not invest in a company that spends money so foolishly.

 Respectfully, some of us more technically-minded people, who know a thing-or-two about things-and-stuff, are skeptical of the 28nm form-factor in a reasonable time-frame for a fringe product like this.

 Mid to late next year ? No problem. I could totally see that.

 28nm NRE for Bitcoin ASIC projects right now is too cost prohibitive to be profitable given the current rise in difficulty and ASICs already hashing on the network.

 I would love to be proved wrong.

skeptics like you will never be convinced. all you see is the money.  that's ok.

but where have i been shilling?  point to something i've said that hasn't been verified by the company.  point to where i've said that KNC or Bitfury is bad but HashFast is great?

i have been trying to provide a balanced and fair presentation of what is going on.  if you want to ignore it or troll it fine.  but you also run the risk of ruining your own credibility with baseless accusations.

what i am excited about is merging my own long term economic, investment, and strategic experience in Bitcoin with someone like Simon, who has the same long term knowledge and experience in Bitcoin but from a technical perspective.  those asic companies that don't understand what Bitcoin is, what it represents, and how it fits into not only the Bitcoin community but also the global financial system are doomed to fail, imo.  there is a very specific way that these companies have to fit.  what i see are a bunch of companies that are only in for the quick profit and bring guys in with expertise from various traditional industries but who fail to truly understand the inner workings or principles of Bitcoin. or they run it with kids like Yifu.  imo, HashFast actually needs me to help them develop their asic strategy into the Bitcoin ecosystem as a whole.

i don't need this project or the money involved.  i have a great career of my own and am participating in this b/c it involves the first Silicon Valley/Palo Alto based asic mining company with a guy like Simon.

Your pre-order is functionally equivalent to investment -- you can't chargeback, as you have done with KNCminer & BitFury, you will only get your product if HashFast is fully funded by other investors pre-orders, and further proves to be willing & capable of delivering the product.  That's a pretty hefty investment.


All the more reason to shill, no?


And more reason still.


This presupposes that you have credibility.  I have presented you with a long list of reasons why you do not.  The fact that there may be few credible people willing to shill for HashFast is neither here nor there.


You do understand that being both invested in HashFast, and paid by them, effectively negates whatever credibility you had before?  At least in this particular arena.


Relevance?


HashFast has already formed a partnership with IceDrill, a small miner with projected output of gadzillion PH/s.  I'm liking what i see.

i have not invested money in HashFast.  i have preordered 8 of their BabyJets.  i have not yet received any payment and won't unless this thing is successful.  the Board of Advisors agreement has some options associated with it but they are vested over many years time and also will be worth zero if this thing fails.

yes, i will get a payment if this thing is successful.  so, i admit, there can tend to be a bias.  however, there are not many around here that have the credibility to claim that they are indeed Bitcoin purists, advocates, bulls, or whatever you want to call it since the early days. i have been a huge supporter of Bitcoin.  i have been thru many flame wars fighting skeptics, bears, critics, and the whole gamut back in the dark days back in late 2011 when it looked like Bitcoin would fail.  i was one of the only ones who stayed positive and tried to help Bitcoin startups get off the ground with donations.  i run my own newsletter and of all my clients, not one of them has ever been cheated, lied to, or had their financial dealings with me brought into question.  i understand the importance of openness, transparency, and sharing. 

open source doesn't mean everything is free.  the source codes should certainly be free. but the companies built around it do have to make money.  their employees have to be paid.  profit is what drives innovation and the willingness to take risk.  my own abilities as an advisor, strategist, and knowledgeable and experienced Bitcoin participant don't come free either.  i mean, who's going to bust their balls working to make something of this magnitude and risk take off w/o compensation?  do you work for free?

none of these companies will do well if they don't support the small miner in the long run.  i'm working to try and make sure this happens.

ok so you have canceled your orders from KNC, BitFury
you have ordered equipment from HashFast, 8 miners, almost 50.000 USD

and you are claiming that you are a small miner

a. you are liar
b. you are a kid
c. your account has been hacked

what is your answer, cypherdoc ?

Let me get this straight: 
You say you have invested money in HashFast, money you can't recover until next year *at best*. 
You are also being paid by HashFast.
And you want us to see you as an objective, disinterested observer?

Are you trolling us?

no, i am much more of a Bitcoin advocate/purist than you realize if you haven't read my past posts.  i've been around here a long time and have posted enough that ppl can't dispute that.  i'm constantly pushing concepts and ideas that promote decentralization of the network into the hands of the small miner here on the forum and into HashFast's ears.  i am a small miner myself after all. 

small miners need to be able to afford the products offered and get them paid off in a reasonable period of time.  i am very happy that this company has offered a refund policy and am very excited about the Miner Protection Program, the details of which are forthcoming. 

i'm constantly asking them the tough questions.  b/c i want answers, just like you.  my money is at risk afterall.

Eduardo himself has promised me he is going to climb onto the forum and try to answer questions and provide much more info.  i think he owes it to all of us.

OK, done.  Beware of this guy, folks.  He is a paid shill with his own, not your, interests in mind.  Bye.

"I am pleased to announce that I have been selected as a paid sponsor for HashFast Technologies LLC.  I have also been asked to join their Board of Advisors."
They're paying you to ask those tough questions, huh?  


HashFast finances are based on people being patient and forgiving?  I'm beginning to understand...


In other words, there are no plans to refund people, they're patient & have been softened up by BFL & Avalon already -- they'll be reasonable & wait as long as it takes.
Can't we cut to the chace and just say "we did the math, and it tells us refunds are impossible.  We can't give you what we do not have, so you don't get to have ur munyz."?


Unfortunately, there is a shortage of *stupid VC money*.  The sort of money needed to bail a failing ASIC company trying to refund its customers before declaring bankruptcy.


Err.  This is not "third," just a rewording of "first."  See: "there are no plans to refund" above.


Simon sez "Love the machine!!1!!"

Personally I don't think it's wise to start any affiliate scheme prior to proving the chips work, I haven't been paid by anyone. I would like to work with KnC, but I'm not siding with anyone unequivocally until I've seen evidence that a working chip has been created. So for the record, I'm currently on nobody's payroll here. Unofficial spokesperson by a tentative connection vis à vis the Bitcoinorama Open Day Report and having performed enough background research to convince myself and share it, sure, but I've only ever told anyone to perform their own research and due diligence, whilst paying by a protected payment means. I've never told anyone to buy anything, I've always maintained you call and check for any purchase with your card issuing bank prior to committing. That's just common sense. Twist it as you like. Anyone else could visit a company and articulate an entertaining read whilst retaining an informative approach.

this refund question is something i've been trying to get more info on myself as i am in the same boat you guys are much more than you think.  as in, i don't get paid unless this whole thing is successful and i have an order in place for BabyJets that i paid upfront for too.

btw, for those of you who keep insisting that i am just a shill, stop reading right here.  i'd much rather you just sit waffling out there in the wind having no real clue about what's going on with HashFast and to the asic marketplace in general, to your own detriment.  imo, you should be viewing me more as an important source of info or link to the company that can help you along in this process as i clearly post way more than the company reps have time for.  the smart guys are talking to me via pm's or emails trying to find out what's really going on while the other company shills that seem so eager to jump on board that new Reseller Program, show up here to criticize anyway they can.  and remember, i am not a company employee or representative.  i can say what i want when i want whether it is positive or negative about the company.  and i fully intend to do so.

having said all that, you need to realize a few things.  i too once viewed that 12/31 date as some sort of hard wall that if hit would result in an instant 100% request for refunds from all customers and bankruptcy for the company.  while an all out 100% refund request is possible, i don't think that will happen.  first, i think ppl are much more patient and forgiving about this process than you think.  there are alot of ppl who like HashFast and the ppl involved. i think they will give the company more time if need be to complete a workable solution, especially if they explain why. they realize that this is the tech industry and it's possible to have delays.  second, you may not realize it, but there is no shortage of VC capital poking around trying to buy equity positions in many of these companies. there are plenty of sources of money to tap into in case of a funding problem.  third, i don't think it is even going to be an issue.  ppl are buying via email now and most of the stuck orders in the system have been salvaged.  

there is going to be a machine and Simon still thinks it will be delivered on schedule.

If the original intent was a mine (like 100Th or icedrill), then miners could just be the second line/smaller business. Frankly the bitfury folks seem to knocking it out of the park lately.  Maybe Hashfast is a similar model.

Try harder... I don't think there is anyone (sound of mind that is) willing to fund such a business plan all by themselves. The risks are just too high.

Well, there's the IceDrill deal, which makes the question even more relevant.  And i'm still not clear who gets the first slice of the delicious caek -- IceDrill or the Baby Jetsetters?

Crumbs -
I think I read originally when they first came on the scene that the company had received some amount of startup capital.  I don't know if it was stated or guessed at around $2M.
I would think that should be enough to cover the NRE for a 28nm especially if "partnered" with a team with the skill.
Why would they need our capital?  That is a tough one. 
I am trying to think of scenarios where miner purchases are just part of a larger sales strategy revolving around raw chips to big farms on one side, and small individual miners on the other.  Kind of like bitfury selling to 100TH and to metabank, and to the Tytus webstores.

Your pre-order money is being spent on research, development, production and marketing.
The emphasis is on the word *spent*. 
If, by the end of the year, there is no product to ship, there's also no money for refunds. 
Unless your money *was not spent,* which begs the question "why was it needed in the first place?"

Frankly worst case - if HashFast isn't able to deliver by years end, that would still be faster delivery than Avalon B3 units (3+ months late) and they didn't have a refund option up front.

Personally i like that there is a backstop to how long it will take.  I am sure that BFL customers would have loved to have this in place when they ordered.

I do actually see this raising the bar a little... though there are still some questions about the refund that haven't been answered:
Worst case would refunds be in USD or BTC?
What about international customers?

I think Metabank set a good example for pricing in dollars, but only accepting and refunding in BTC.
I would recommend the same.
Obviously the community would prefer BTC.  

Edit-
I now see that this has been answered in https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2903338
Refunds will be in BTC.
It is good to see this moving in a positive direction!