Topic: ► ► ►HashFast Endorsement - page 3. (Read 36908 times)
with the additional released inventory already down to only 6 units left, along with the backorders, i think the marketplace has spoken.
i wouldn't equate the two:
Just to put things in perspective Cointerra has also offered a "MPP" of sorts.
On-Time Delivery Commitment – If CoinTerra fails to deliver chips or rigs within 30 days of its promised December delivery window, the company will credit your account 20% of the hash power of your order;
seems to me the Dec 31 full refund policy would negate this element.
HF has also offered a repricing if they lower their prices for this batch 1.
this is a more touchy, feely type of offer with no guarantees. i would think HF would do the same thing altho they haven't stated it.
i really think that ppl haven't stopped and thought about just how generous an offer the MPP truly is. just look closely at the example on their website:
"Example 2 – You buy a Baby Jet for 50 BTC, and we ship it on October 25th. January 23, 2014 comes and goes, and it turns out that at the Baby Jet’s nominal hashrate, it would only have generated 25 BTC during that 90 day period. Calculated out, it would have taken an additional 400 Ghash/s of capacity shipped with your Baby Jet on October 25, 2013 to generate 50 BTC, so we will give you 800 Ghash/s in additional capacity. In this example, HashFast will give you two additional Golden Nonce ASICs, each with 400 nominal GHash/s."
assuming that the network HR doesn't go so ballistic making the 400% maximum MPP guarantee ineffective, we know the following: not only are they going to make you break even AFTER 90 DAYS of having received your unit, but they are willing to give you an extra 400 GH/s in this example to thrust you clearly into profitability.
that's extraordinary. AND they are going in the right direction development-wise to allow them to do this. smaller dies, not bigger. in other words, more dies per wafer than their competitors making it possible and cost effective for them to offer this.
This single program is going to blow everyone away.
Just to put things in perspective Cointerra has also offered a "MPP" of sorts.
On-Time Delivery Commitment – If CoinTerra fails to deliver chips or rigs within 30 days of its promised December delivery window, the company will credit your account 20% of the hash power of your order;
seems to me the Dec 31 full refund policy would negate this element.
Quote
Price Protection – For any undelivered orders, if the company changes the price of TerraMiner systems or GoldStrike1 ASICs before delivery, CoinTerra will re-price all orders and offer either a cash refund or a larger and more valuable hash power credit;
HF has also offered a repricing if they lower their prices for this batch 1.
Quote
Customer Exchange – If a customer has a confirmed order and their circumstances change to prevent them from completing the sale, CoinTerra will help them find another party amongst their existing customers to take their place in the product queue. While CoinTerra cannot guarantee there is a buyer for an order or a place in the queue, the company will do its best in good faith to help
this is a more touchy, feely type of offer with no guarantees. i would think HF would do the same thing altho they haven't stated it.
Quote
I would say this is comparable to HashFasts.
Sadly they only accept BTC and Wire Transfers too.
Disclaimer: I have no orders with either HashFast or Cointerra (Unless you count IceDrill shares as HashFast orders)
Sadly they only accept BTC and Wire Transfers too.
Disclaimer: I have no orders with either HashFast or Cointerra (Unless you count IceDrill shares as HashFast orders)
i really think that ppl haven't stopped and thought about just how generous an offer the MPP truly is. just look closely at the example on their website:
"Example 2 – You buy a Baby Jet for 50 BTC, and we ship it on October 25th. January 23, 2014 comes and goes, and it turns out that at the Baby Jet’s nominal hashrate, it would only have generated 25 BTC during that 90 day period. Calculated out, it would have taken an additional 400 Ghash/s of capacity shipped with your Baby Jet on October 25, 2013 to generate 50 BTC, so we will give you 800 Ghash/s in additional capacity. In this example, HashFast will give you two additional Golden Nonce ASICs, each with 400 nominal GHash/s."
assuming that the network HR doesn't go so ballistic making the 400% maximum MPP guarantee ineffective, we know the following: not only are they going to make you break even AFTER 90 DAYS of having received your unit, but they are willing to give you an extra 400 GH/s in this example to thrust you clearly into profitability.
that's extraordinary. AND they are going in the right direction development-wise to allow them to do this. smaller dies, not bigger. in other words, more dies per wafer than their competitors making it possible and cost effective for them to offer this.
Think about it. Why wouldn't they make good on their greatest single advantage over every other competitor in the marketplace?
With all due respect: because they don't have to.
why would you doubt the veracity of what they've said?
i would think that there would be some legal culpability from advertising the program on their website.
New groupbuy for one unit. Come join. pleeeease https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/canceled-group-buy-hashfast-babyjet-109-btc-25-serraz-escrow-283340
@Cypherdoc: What happened to the REALLY BIG GOOD NEWS we were promised yesterday?
Think about it. Why wouldn't they make good on their greatest single advantage over every other competitor in the marketplace?
With all due respect: because they don't have to.
The MPP is not a sham.
Plans are being made to manufacture those chips assuming they will be needed.
Think about it. Why wouldn't they make good on their greatest single advantage over every other competitor in the marketplace?
This single program is going to blow everyone away.
Plans are being made to manufacture those chips assuming they will be needed.
Think about it. Why wouldn't they make good on their greatest single advantage over every other competitor in the marketplace?
This single program is going to blow everyone away.
That was my thnking as well... but it is definitely a long-term/slow game strategy.
The MPP is not a sham.
Plans are being made to manufacture those chips assuming they will be needed.
Think about it. Why wouldn't they make good on their greatest single advantage over every other competitor in the marketplace?
This single program is going to blow everyone away.
Plans are being made to manufacture those chips assuming they will be needed.
Think about it. Why wouldn't they make good on their greatest single advantage over every other competitor in the marketplace?
This single program is going to blow everyone away.
Basically it breaks one of two ways:
1) They are full of crap and I wasted 5600+ worth of BTC on each order
2) They are earnest and contrary to the legalese, they will abide by what they are saying in the forums
I am going with option 2... maybe the MPP is a ploy to find suckers, but they are at least offering some incentives for the miner which scales with the network (to some extent). If they can't make good on their word, then they are dead to the market regardless of the legalese. Look at what happened to Avalon.
No other vendor has offered a comparable option taking the network realities into account.
When the inventory re-opened, I doubled down. Looking foward to December (and then March/April
)
1) They are full of crap and I wasted 5600+ worth of BTC on each order
2) They are earnest and contrary to the legalese, they will abide by what they are saying in the forums
I am going with option 2... maybe the MPP is a ploy to find suckers, but they are at least offering some incentives for the miner which scales with the network (to some extent). If they can't make good on their word, then they are dead to the market regardless of the legalese. Look at what happened to Avalon.
No other vendor has offered a comparable option taking the network realities into account.
When the inventory re-opened, I doubled down. Looking foward to December (and then March/April
) yes, this is the way i understand it as well.
the only small clarification is that they are going to err to the high side for your benefit. if, for instance, you bought one unit and the HF calc comes back that you actually needed 2.5 chips to have broken even, then they are going to mail you 3 chips as they really DO want their miners to win this game even if it comes at their expense.
it's a good long term strategy.
the only small clarification is that they are going to err to the high side for your benefit. if, for instance, you bought one unit and the HF calc comes back that you actually needed 2.5 chips to have broken even, then they are going to mail you 3 chips as they really DO want their miners to win this game even if it comes at their expense.
it's a good long term strategy.
The only issue (IMO) is they're not legally bound to follow through on the MPP. I sincerely believe they're trying to set a new precedent when it comes to ASIC hardware, but the legalese (as of Aug 13th) does not reflect much of what has been presented by HF's talking heads. Largely, I ended up not ordering because of this. On the contrary, when you - the people who did order - receive your extra GN1's, I may be interested in purchasing them from you.
Yes, VERY BIG NEWS COMING TODAY INDEED!
also, I have posted details about new order chain rules, and the release of inventory here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3029016
-John
also, I have posted details about new order chain rules, and the release of inventory here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3029016
-John
Dear John --
Today has come and gone. Now it's tomorrow, or rather today was yesterday and today's today. The scenario defies description, let's just say that verb conjugation will was to be different. Never mind that, but where's my VERY BIG NEWS?
Yes, VERY BIG NEWS COMING TODAY INDEED!
also, I have posted details about new order chain rules, and the release of inventory here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3029016
-John
also, I have posted details about new order chain rules, and the release of inventory here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3029016
-John
Additional Babyjets released due to non receipt of wires.
Other very good news coming.
Other very good news coming.
Cyberdoc, are the MPP chips based on what we _would_ have needed to have broken even on our investment at time of delivery delivery, rather than what we need now (90day later) to break even from here.
In 90 days time the difficulty might have gone up 441% (genesis block calc)
In 90 days time the difficulty might have gone up 441% (genesis block calc)
I think what you're asking is if there is a cap on the MPP? There is.
Actually having read their MPP page it is mostly clear, that they base the MPP chips on what you would have needed from the beginning to mine your purchase price. Having said that they give an example of paying 50btc, mining only 25btc and in return they give you +2 GN chips
For that level of detail you're going to have to ask the company.
Cyberdoc, are the MPP chips based on what we _would_ have needed to have broken even on our investment at time of delivery delivery, rather than what we need now (90day later) to break even from here.
In 90 days time the difficulty might have gone up 441% (genesis block calc)
In 90 days time the difficulty might have gone up 441% (genesis block calc)
I think what you're asking is if there is a cap on the MPP? There is.
Actually having read their MPP page it is mostly clear, that they base the MPP chips on what you would have needed from the beginning to mine your purchase price. Having said that they give an example of paying 50btc, mining only 25btc and in return they give you +2 GN chips
Cyberdoc, are the MPP chips based on what we _would_ have needed to have broken even on our investment at time of delivery delivery, rather than what we need now (90day later) to break even from here.
In 90 days time the difficulty might have gone up 441% (genesis block calc)
In 90 days time the difficulty might have gone up 441% (genesis block calc)
I think what you're asking is if there is a cap on the MPP? There is.
Cyberdoc, are the MPP chips based on what we _would_ have needed to have broken even on our investment at time of delivery delivery, rather than what we need now (90day later) to break even from here.
In 90 days time the difficulty might have gone up 441% (genesis block calc)
In 90 days time the difficulty might have gone up 441% (genesis block calc)
The way I see is say for example you get your rig by November 15th 2013. And you mine it for 90 days (until it "comes and goes" - the word they used on their example). At the end of the 90 day if you still haven't made ROI, then you request the MPP with them and they will calculate (by just looking at the difficulty history) to see if November 15, 2013 + 90days was enough to make ROI from. If it wasn't enough, then they will give you enough hashing power (up to 4x) to you.
Say they will give you 3 chips. Then you either pay them for PCB/assembly/delivery (1.3k - 2k) or you can just send it off (with delivery fee) to your chosen 3rd party PCB/rig maker. And that's that. If you don't make ROI after that then you never will.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Say they will give you 3 chips. Then you either pay them for PCB/assembly/delivery (1.3k - 2k) or you can just send it off (with delivery fee) to your chosen 3rd party PCB/rig maker. And that's that. If you don't make ROI after that then you never will.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
yes, this is the way i understand it as well.
the only small clarification is that they are going to err to the high side for your benefit. if, for instance, you bought one unit and the HF calc comes back that you actually needed 2.5 chips to have broken even, then they are going to mail you 3 chips as they really DO want their miners to win this game even if it comes at their expense.
it's a good long term strategy.
The way I see is say for example you get your rig by November 15th 2013. And you mine it for 90 days (until it "comes and goes" - the word they used on their example). At the end of the 90 day if you still haven't made ROI, then you request the MPP with them and they will calculate (by just looking at the difficulty history) to see if November 15, 2013 + 90days was enough to make ROI from. If it wasn't enough, then they will give you enough hashing power (up to 4x) to you.
Say they will give you 3 chips. Then you either pay them for PCB/assembly/delivery (1.3k - 2k) or you can just send it off (with delivery fee) to your chosen 3rd party PCB/rig maker. And that's that. If you don't make ROI after that then you never will.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Say they will give you 3 chips. Then you either pay them for PCB/assembly/delivery (1.3k - 2k) or you can just send it off (with delivery fee) to your chosen 3rd party PCB/rig maker. And that's that. If you don't make ROI after that then you never will.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
They have to save chips for the MPP incase things do go wrong. I'm sure they wouldn't want to be in a position where they offered this program but are unable to honor it because they didn't have the chips.
Not necessarily. I assume that is the purpose of the 90 days... so they have time to order and receive MPP chips. It might also provide some clarity as to why it is based on the initial delivery date... so they have all the needed data to be able to stock the MPP appropriately.
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