► ► ►HashFast Endorsement - page 9.

crumbs

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Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 04:15:09 PM

Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 04:06:26 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 03:57:03 PM

Quote from: SirWizz on August 18, 2013, 03:44:06 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 03:36:24 PM

furthermore, you seem to not to be able to wrap your crumb brain around the fact that by transacting in BTC, HF does indeed help the Bitcoin economy. Cheesy

I am sure the help will be massive, really justifying the BTC only policy... And to top it off 0% protection for the buyer! (yay) It will help both the dollar and BTC, are you two really going to argue about percentages now? The point is HF is not doing this to "help the BTC", that's just ridiculous Roll Eyes

.

perhaps.

but greed unleashed in the free market can have all sorts of unintended positive effects.

...and sure as hell all sorts of negative ones, intentional or otherwise Cheesy

[...]

Quote

but to say that by conducting BTC-only tx's is a net negative to the Bitcoin economy is ridiculous.

It is not a BTC-only transaction when they cash out. It's a BTC->dollars transaction. Your refusal to acknowledge this is becoming silly. HashFast is selling those BTCs for $$$, get it? If you do not agree, and think that the BTC will not be sold by HashFast, please state that now, so we don't have to keep going in circles.

Now then, is HashFast *not* selling the BTC for dollars? Angry

Edit:

Quote

ah, come on crumbs, don't be mad, be happy. Grin

dude, how many times do i have to say this to you?

you're fixated on only 1/2 the tx. on the other side of that same tx is someone who "wants" those BTC's that HF is selling. and yes, they are happily "giving up" their USD's to get them.

and the fact is there are ALOT of ppl who wants those same BTC's. how do we know this? the exchange rate is going UP.

so how does that translate into some kind of negative?

And yet again you failed to answer my question Angry

As far as exchange rate going up, which one? While we were talking, Gox fell $1+, which is also meaningless -- now the spread's only $14.
The bulls like to say that you only lose if you sell.
That works the other way around too -- you only *win* when you sell, the rest is just numbers on the screen.
Don't let this distract you from answering my question about supply & demand

cypherdoc

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Activity: 1764

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Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 04:06:26 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 03:57:03 PM

Quote from: SirWizz on August 18, 2013, 03:44:06 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 03:36:24 PM

furthermore, you seem to not to be able to wrap your crumb brain around the fact that by transacting in BTC, HF does indeed help the Bitcoin economy. Cheesy

I am sure the help will be massive, really justifying the BTC only policy... And to top it off 0% protection for the buyer! (yay) It will help both the dollar and BTC, are you two really going to argue about percentages now? The point is HF is not doing this to "help the BTC", that's just ridiculous Roll Eyes

.

perhaps.

but greed unleashed in the free market can have all sorts of unintended positive effects.

...and sure as hell all sorts of negative ones, intentional or otherwise Cheesy

[...]

Quote

but to say that by conducting BTC-only tx's is a net negative to the Bitcoin economy is ridiculous.

It is not a BTC-only transaction when they cash out. It's a BTC->dollars transaction. Your refusal to acknowledge this is becoming silly. HashFast is selling those BTCs for $$$, get it? If you do not agree, and think that the BTC will not be sold by HashFast, please state that now, so we don't have to keep going in circles.

Now then, is HashFast *not* selling the BTC for dollars? Angry

Edit:

Quote

ah, come on crumbs, don't be mad, be happy. Grin

dude, how many times do i have to say this to you?

you're fixated on only 1/2 the tx. on the other side of that same tx is someone who "wants" those BTC's that HF is selling. and yes, they are happily "giving up" their USD's to get them.

and the fact is there are ALOT of ppl who wants those same BTC's. how do we know this? the exchange rate is going UP.

so how does that translate into some kind of negative?

crumbs

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Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 03:57:03 PM

Quote from: SirWizz on August 18, 2013, 03:44:06 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 03:36:24 PM

furthermore, you seem to not to be able to wrap your crumb brain around the fact that by transacting in BTC, HF does indeed help the Bitcoin economy. Cheesy

I am sure the help will be massive, really justifying the BTC only policy... And to top it off 0% protection for the buyer! (yay) It will help both the dollar and BTC, are you two really going to argue about percentages now? The point is HF is not doing this to "help the BTC", that's just ridiculous Roll Eyes

.

perhaps.

but greed unleashed in the free market can have all sorts of unintended positive effects.

...and sure as hell all sorts of negative ones, intentional or otherwise Cheesy

[...]

Quote

but to say that by conducting BTC-only tx's is a net negative to the Bitcoin economy is ridiculous.

It is not a BTC-only transaction when they cash out. It's a BTC->dollars transaction. Your refusal to acknowledge this is becoming silly. HashFast is selling those BTCs for $$$, get it? If you do not agree, and think that the BTC will not be sold by HashFast, please state that now, so we don't have to keep going in circles.

Now then, is HashFast *not* selling the BTC for dollars? Angry

Edit:

Quote

ah, come on crumbs, don't be mad, be happy. Grin

cypherdoc

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Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 03:55:15 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 03:36:24 PM

Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 03:32:16 PM

Answer the question, a or b? ^^^ Angry

bwahahahaha!

it doesn't matter what the price on gox does if they put up the BTC for sale. there's no way to predict what will happen short term.

furthermore, you seem to not to be able to wrap your crumb brain around the fact that by transacting in BTC, HF does indeed help the Bitcoin economy. Cheesy

I offer you a rudimentary supply and demand question.
You do not answer it, insulting me instead.
I remind you to answer my question, get no answer and another insult in reply.
This has been your hallmark throughout this thread -- stubborn avoidance of inconvenient topics and escalating insults.
Enjoy your endorsement thread.

ah, come on crumbs, don't be mad, be happy. Grin

cypherdoc

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Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: SirWizz on August 18, 2013, 03:44:06 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 03:36:24 PM

furthermore, you seem to not to be able to wrap your crumb brain around the fact that by transacting in BTC, HF does indeed help the Bitcoin economy. Cheesy

I am sure the help will be massive, really justifying the BTC only policy... And to top it off 0% protection for the buyer! (yay) It will help both the dollar and BTC, are you two really going to argue about percentages now? The point is HF is not doing this to "help the BTC", that's just ridiculous Roll Eyes

.

perhaps.

but greed unleashed in the free market can have all sorts of unintended positive effects. i already mentioned one; helping the Bitcoin economy whether intentional or not. there's also a restraining effect on how they view their own books. perhaps they'll proceed more carefully if their orders aren't inflated to enormous proportions by allowing cc/pp. perhaps they'll avoid a bank account freeze imposed by the US gov't like what happened to gox. perhaps we have a 100% rise in the price of BTC thus doubling their balance sheets. we've already had a mini-rise of about 10%.

but to say that by conducting BTC-only tx's is a net negative to the Bitcoin economy is ridiculous.

crumbs

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Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 03:36:24 PM

Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 03:32:16 PM

Answer the question, a or b? ^^^ Angry

bwahahahaha!

it doesn't matter what the price on gox does if they put up the BTC for sale. there's no way to predict what will happen short term.

furthermore, you seem to not to be able to wrap your crumb brain around the fact that by transacting in BTC, HF does indeed help the Bitcoin economy. Cheesy

I offer you a rudimentary supply and demand question.
You do not answer it, insulting me instead.
I remind you to answer my question, get no answer and another insult in reply.
This has been your hallmark throughout this thread -- stubborn avoidance of inconvenient topics and escalating insults.
Enjoy your endorsement thread.

SirWizz

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Activity: 173

Merit: 100

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 03:36:24 PM

furthermore, you seem to not to be able to wrap your crumb brain around the fact that by transacting in BTC, HF does indeed help the Bitcoin economy. Cheesy

I am sure the help will be massive, really justifying the BTC only policy... And to top it off 0% protection for the buyer! (yay) It will help both the dollar and BTC, are you two really going to argue about percentages now? The point is HF is not doing this to "help the BTC", that's just ridiculous Roll Eyes

.

cypherdoc

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Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 03:32:16 PM

Answer the question, a or b? ^^^ Angry

bwahahahaha!

it doesn't matter what the price on gox does if they put up the BTC for sale. there's no way to predict what will happen short term.

furthermore, you seem to not to be able to wrap your crumb brain around the fact that by transacting in BTC, HF does indeed help the Bitcoin economy. Cheesy

crumbs

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Activity: 210

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Answer the question, a or b? ^^^ Angry

cypherdoc

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Activity: 1764

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Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 03:08:35 PM

Cypherdoc, if HashFast puts the BTC they got from buyers on Gox, what do you suppose will happen to BTC price?
a. It will spike, because increased supply without a change in demand translates to higher prices.
b. It will plumet, because increased supply without a change in demand translates to falling prices.

And i've noticed a $15 spread between Gox & the rest of the world. If HashFast sells on Gox, how long do you suppose it will take to get some dollars?
If(not long)
{(arbitrage with Bitstamp); //PROFIT!!!!!}

your inability to focus on the original argument here is quite annoying.

you claim that b/c HF is conducting BTC-only tx's, it is somehow bad for the Bitcoin economy. i've argued the exact opposite.

you are wrong.

crumbs

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Activity: 210

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Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 02:58:11 PM

Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 02:52:29 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 02:49:13 PM

Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 02:46:17 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 02:42:13 PM

...

oh crumbs, why are your arguments so crumby? Wink

here's an example from Wikipedia on monetary velocity:

Illustration

If, for example, in a very small economy, a farmer and a mechanic, with just $50 between them, buy new goods and services from each other in just three transactions over the course of a year

   Farmer spends $50 on tractor repair from mechanic.
   Mechanic buys $40 of corn from farmer.
   Mechanic spends $10 on barn cats from farmer.

then $100 changed hands in the course of a year, even though there is only $50 in this little economy. That $100 level is possible because each dollar was spent on new goods and services an average of twice a year, which is to say that the velocity was 2/yr. Note that if the farmer bought a used tractor from the mechanic or made a gift to the mechanic, it would not go into the numerator of velocity because that transaction would not be part of this tiny economy's gross domestic product.

thus, by HF enabling BTC to move from buyer's hands to HF and then onto another buyer, monetary velocity is increasing. not only that, it's enabling a new Bitcoin company to establish itself thus once again growing the economy.

lame crumbs, lame.

Cypherdoc, have you noticed that nowhere in the wikip example do you have an instance of money being exchanged for another currency? Would you like to guess why that is, or are you going to keep flailing?

it's irrelevant. the point is that the BTC movement by itself is enabling a new company to grow, buyers to dishoard to obtain a new machine, and for the Bitcoin economy to grow.

it also increases demand for BTC in general as they are needed to complete the tx.

end of story.

Increases the what for what when they have to sell it for dollars??? What happens to prices when market supply is increased? Cheesy

UR a lolacoster. End of story.

once again, you're forgetting that there are willing buyers on the other side of that tx who are more than willing to take the BTC if and when HF has to sell. this is the definition of a tx in a free market; both a willing buyer and a willing seller.

and btw, have you noticed the BTC price rising lately? the willingness of the buyers seems to be dominating.

Cypherdoc, if HashFast puts the BTC they got from buyers on Gox, what do you suppose will happen to BTC price?
a. It will spike, because increased supply without a change in demand translates to higher prices.
b. It will plumet, because increased supply without a change in demand translates to falling prices.

And i've noticed a $15 spread between Gox & the rest of the world. If HashFast sells on Gox, how long do you suppose it will take to get some dollars?
If(not long)
{(arbitrage with Bitstamp); //PROFIT!!!!!}

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 02:52:29 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 02:49:13 PM

Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 02:46:17 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 02:42:13 PM

...

oh crumbs, why are your arguments so crumby? Wink

here's an example from Wikipedia on monetary velocity:

Illustration

If, for example, in a very small economy, a farmer and a mechanic, with just $50 between them, buy new goods and services from each other in just three transactions over the course of a year

   Farmer spends $50 on tractor repair from mechanic.
   Mechanic buys $40 of corn from farmer.
   Mechanic spends $10 on barn cats from farmer.

then $100 changed hands in the course of a year, even though there is only $50 in this little economy. That $100 level is possible because each dollar was spent on new goods and services an average of twice a year, which is to say that the velocity was 2/yr. Note that if the farmer bought a used tractor from the mechanic or made a gift to the mechanic, it would not go into the numerator of velocity because that transaction would not be part of this tiny economy's gross domestic product.

thus, by HF enabling BTC to move from buyer's hands to HF and then onto another buyer, monetary velocity is increasing. not only that, it's enabling a new Bitcoin company to establish itself thus once again growing the economy.

lame crumbs, lame.

Cypherdoc, have you noticed that nowhere in the wikip example do you have an instance of money being exchanged for another currency? Would you like to guess why that is, or are you going to keep flailing?

it's irrelevant. the point is that the BTC movement by itself is enabling a new company to grow, buyers to dishoard to obtain a new machine, and for the Bitcoin economy to grow.

it also increases demand for BTC in general as they are needed to complete the tx.

end of story.

Increases the what for what when they have to sell it for dollars??? What happens to prices when market supply is increased? Cheesy

UR a lolacoster. End of story.

once again, you're forgetting that there are willing buyers on the other side of that tx who are more than willing to take the BTC if and when HF has to sell. this is the definition of a tx in a free market; both a willing buyer and a willing seller.

and btw, have you noticed the BTC price rising lately? the willingness of the buyers seems to be dominating.

crumbs

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 02:49:13 PM

Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 02:46:17 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 02:42:13 PM

...

oh crumbs, why are your arguments so crumby? Wink

here's an example from Wikipedia on monetary velocity:

Illustration

If, for example, in a very small economy, a farmer and a mechanic, with just $50 between them, buy new goods and services from each other in just three transactions over the course of a year

   Farmer spends $50 on tractor repair from mechanic.
   Mechanic buys $40 of corn from farmer.
   Mechanic spends $10 on barn cats from farmer.

then $100 changed hands in the course of a year, even though there is only $50 in this little economy. That $100 level is possible because each dollar was spent on new goods and services an average of twice a year, which is to say that the velocity was 2/yr. Note that if the farmer bought a used tractor from the mechanic or made a gift to the mechanic, it would not go into the numerator of velocity because that transaction would not be part of this tiny economy's gross domestic product.

thus, by HF enabling BTC to move from buyer's hands to HF and then onto another buyer, monetary velocity is increasing. not only that, it's enabling a new Bitcoin company to establish itself thus once again growing the economy.

lame crumbs, lame.

Cypherdoc, have you noticed that nowhere in the wikip example do you have an instance of money being exchanged for another currency? Would you like to guess why that is, or are you going to keep flailing?

it's irrelevant. the point is that the BTC movement by itself is enabling a new company to grow, buyers to dishoard to obtain a new machine, and for the Bitcoin economy to grow.

it also increases demand for BTC in general as they are needed to complete the tx.

end of story.

Increases the what for what when they have to sell it for dollars??? What happens to prices when market supply is increased? Cheesy

UR a lolacoster. End of story.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 02:46:17 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 02:42:13 PM

...

oh crumbs, why are your arguments so crumby? Wink

here's an example from Wikipedia on monetary velocity:

Illustration

If, for example, in a very small economy, a farmer and a mechanic, with just $50 between them, buy new goods and services from each other in just three transactions over the course of a year

   Farmer spends $50 on tractor repair from mechanic.
   Mechanic buys $40 of corn from farmer.
   Mechanic spends $10 on barn cats from farmer.

then $100 changed hands in the course of a year, even though there is only $50 in this little economy. That $100 level is possible because each dollar was spent on new goods and services an average of twice a year, which is to say that the velocity was 2/yr. Note that if the farmer bought a used tractor from the mechanic or made a gift to the mechanic, it would not go into the numerator of velocity because that transaction would not be part of this tiny economy's gross domestic product.

thus, by HF enabling BTC to move from buyer's hands to HF and then onto another buyer, monetary velocity is increasing. not only that, it's enabling a new Bitcoin company to establish itself thus once again growing the economy.

lame crumbs, lame.

Cypherdoc, have you noticed that nowhere in the wikip example do you have an instance of money being exchanged for another currency? Would you like to guess why that is, or are you going to keep flailing?

it's irrelevant. the point is that the BTC movement by itself is enabling a new company to grow, buyers to dishoard to obtain a new machine, and for the Bitcoin economy to grow.

it also increases demand for BTC in general as they are needed to complete the tx.

end of story.

crumbs

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 02:42:13 PM

...

oh crumbs, why are your arguments so crumby? Wink

here's an example from Wikipedia on monetary velocity:

Illustration

If, for example, in a very small economy, a farmer and a mechanic, with just $50 between them, buy new goods and services from each other in just three transactions over the course of a year

   Farmer spends $50 on tractor repair from mechanic.
   Mechanic buys $40 of corn from farmer.
   Mechanic spends $10 on barn cats from farmer.

then $100 changed hands in the course of a year, even though there is only $50 in this little economy. That $100 level is possible because each dollar was spent on new goods and services an average of twice a year, which is to say that the velocity was 2/yr. Note that if the farmer bought a used tractor from the mechanic or made a gift to the mechanic, it would not go into the numerator of velocity because that transaction would not be part of this tiny economy's gross domestic product.

thus, by HF enabling BTC to move from buyer's hands to HF and then onto another buyer, monetary velocity is increasing. not only that, it's enabling a new Bitcoin company to establish itself thus once again growing the economy.

lame crumbs, lame.

Cypherdoc, have you noticed that nowhere in the wikip example do you have an instance of money being exchanged for another currency? Would you like to guess why that is, or are you going to keep flailing?

Edit: When HashFast sells BTC for dollars:

a: BTC velocity is increased.
b. Dollar velocity is increased.
c. HashFast velocity is increased.
d. None of the above.
e. All of the above.

cypherdoc

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Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 02:36:30 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 02:19:28 PM

Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 02:03:25 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 01:49:49 PM

Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 01:43:36 PM

If there is no difference between the two scenarios, why not let buyers cash out some coin, and buy with their CCs? The buyers will be happier, while you admit that there is no difference from the BTC economic perspective.

*I can point out that by cashing out BTC, HashFast is not increasing the BTC velocity, it is increasing *the dollar velocity*, but i'm a nice guy

i just told you why; HF "wants" those BTC b/c either:

a. they think they'll appreciate in value

They're taking out a risk-free loan that they don't need for funding development & production? They're *investing my BTC?!* If bitcoin price plummets, they're going to ask for MOAR money?
Haven't we been through this already?

wow, you are sure good at letting your imagination run wild! FUD

Fud? But that's exactly what you have suggested. Unless they are using my pre-order money to fund development and production, in which case they're cashing those coins out to dollars, and it makes no difference what BTC does. If they're playing the market with my coin, and the price falls, will they be asking me for more money?

Quote

b. they think it's easier and more direct for the buyer instead of making them go thru an intermediate step of a cc company

Then offer direct BTC payment as an option. Along with CC. Best of both worlds?

Quote

i just told you why they don't accept cc's. your opinion that they should is just that; your opinion.

I'm replying to your assertion: "they think it's easier and more direct for the buyer instead of making them go thru an intermediate step of a cc company"
If they are indeed worried that it's too inconvenient for their customers to use credit cards, why *disallow* credit card use? Why not leave the option on the table? Or are you trying to be too clever?

Quote

c. they want to avoid chargeback volatility so as to get a better idea of true demand for their product

You mean to shield themselves from people like you? Check. Unfortunately, other ASIC suppliers are accepting CC. The ones that you duped. Good going.

this is what ppl like you do when their logic breaks down, they try to make a strawman attack on their opponents character.

I'm not attacking your character, though character is exactly what a spokesman is selling. And the attack is far from a straw man -- you have regaled us with tales of your credit card daring-do to game those companies. Well played.

Quote

d. they want to help build the Bitcoin economy by encouraging BTC velocity thru the system

Already answered that one. See the rest of my posts re: velocity.

the only thing you've answered is that you don't understand monetary velocity.

Please go back and reread my posts. Slowly. Learn them by heart. Knowledge is power, Cypherdoc.

oh crumbs, why are your arguments so crumby? Wink

here's an example from Wikipedia on monetary velocity:

Illustration

If, for example, in a very small economy, a farmer and a mechanic, with just $50 between them, buy new goods and services from each other in just three transactions over the course of a year

Farmer spends $50 on tractor repair from mechanic.
Mechanic buys $40 of corn from farmer.
Mechanic spends $10 on barn cats from farmer.

then $100 changed hands in the course of a year, even though there is only $50 in this little economy. That $100 level is possible because each dollar was spent on new goods and services an average of twice a year, which is to say that the velocity was 2/yr. Note that if the farmer bought a used tractor from the mechanic or made a gift to the mechanic, it would not go into the numerator of velocity because that transaction would not be part of this tiny economy's gross domestic product.

thus, by HF enabling BTC to move from buyer's hands to HF and then onto another buyer, monetary velocity is increasing. not only that, it's enabling a new Bitcoin company to establish itself thus once again growing the economy.

lame crumbs, lame.

crumbs

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 02:19:28 PM

Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 02:03:25 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 01:49:49 PM

Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 01:43:36 PM

If there is no difference between the two scenarios, why not let buyers cash out some coin, and buy with their CCs? The buyers will be happier, while you admit that there is no difference from the BTC economic perspective.

*I can point out that by cashing out BTC, HashFast is not increasing the BTC velocity, it is increasing *the dollar velocity*, but i'm a nice guy

i just told you why; HF "wants" those BTC b/c either:

a. they think they'll appreciate in value

They're taking out a risk-free loan that they don't need for funding development & production? They're *investing my BTC?!* If bitcoin price plummets, they're going to ask for MOAR money?
Haven't we been through this already?

wow, you are sure good at letting your imagination run wild! FUD

Fud? But that's exactly what you have suggested. Unless they are using my pre-order money to fund development and production, in which case they're cashing those coins out to dollars, and it makes no difference what BTC does. If they're playing the market with my coin, and the price falls, will they be asking me for more money?

Quote

b. they think it's easier and more direct for the buyer instead of making them go thru an intermediate step of a cc company

Then offer direct BTC payment as an option. Along with CC. Best of both worlds?

Quote

i just told you why they don't accept cc's. your opinion that they should is just that; your opinion.

I'm replying to your assertion: "they think it's easier and more direct for the buyer instead of making them go thru an intermediate step of a cc company"
If they are indeed worried that it's too inconvenient for their customers to use credit cards, why *disallow* credit card use? Why not leave the option on the table? Or are you trying to be too clever?

Quote

c. they want to avoid chargeback volatility so as to get a better idea of true demand for their product

You mean to shield themselves from people like you? Check. Unfortunately, other ASIC suppliers are accepting CC. The ones that you duped. Good going.

this is what ppl like you do when their logic breaks down, they try to make a strawman attack on their opponents character.

I'm not attacking your character, though character is exactly what a spokesman is selling. And the attack is far from a straw man -- you have regaled us with tales of your credit card daring-do to game those companies. Well played.

Quote

d. they want to help build the Bitcoin economy by encouraging BTC velocity thru the system

Already answered that one. See the rest of my posts re: velocity.

the only thing you've answered is that you don't understand monetary velocity.

Please go back and reread my posts. Slowly. Learn them by heart. Knowledge is power, Cypherdoc.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 02:21:46 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 02:05:00 PM

...
i keep talking about what is really going on here by HF having a BTC-only policy. that policy IS helping the Bitcoin economy.
...

Cypherdoc, if they cash out BTC to fiat, BTC economy is not helped.
Otherwise, the best thing for BTC economy is "OMG SELL ALL THE COINS!1!" It is not.
Selling coins for dollars is not good for BTC economy.
It makes no difference to BTC economy.
It does not constitute velocity.
Get it?

ah yes. see, i did indeed correctly pinpoint your misunderstanding of economics. you need to read this again carefully. i know it's hard but you'll get it eventually:

Quote

i think this is where your understanding of economics fails miserably:

you're using the term "cashing out" by the buyer or HF when someone buys a BJ as some sort of negative for the Bitcoin economy. you think that it hurts the Bitcoin economy as if that buyer is "giving up" on Bitcoin in general.

nothing is further from the truth. what's really happening is that BTC is now being allowed to circulate and create positive effects. you're completely forgetting that there is someone else on the other end of that transaction who "wants" those BTC's, either the cc company or HF, thus creating an offsetting positive for the Bitcoin economy.

someone always has to hold those BTC; they don't disappear. whoever is holding them at a given time are typically those who "want" to hold them b/c they are bullish on Bitcoin.

crumbs

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 02:05:00 PM

...
i keep talking about what is really going on here by HF having a BTC-only policy. that policy IS helping the Bitcoin economy.
...

Cypherdoc, if they cash out BTC to fiat, BTC economy is not helped.
Otherwise, the best thing for BTC economy is "OMG SELL ALL THE COINS!1!" It is not.
Selling coins for dollars is not good for BTC economy.
It makes no difference to BTC economy.
It does not constitute velocity.
Get it?

cypherdoc

legendary

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Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 02:03:25 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 18, 2013, 01:49:49 PM

Quote from: crumbs on August 18, 2013, 01:43:36 PM

If there is no difference between the two scenarios, why not let buyers cash out some coin, and buy with their CCs? The buyers will be happier, while you admit that there is no difference from the BTC economic perspective.

*I can point out that by cashing out BTC, HashFast is not increasing the BTC velocity, it is increasing *the dollar velocity*, but i'm a nice guy

i just told you why; HF "wants" those BTC b/c either:

a. they think they'll appreciate in value

They're taking out a risk-free loan that they don't need for funding development & production? They're *investing my BTC?!* If bitcoin price plummets, they're going to ask for MOAR money?
Haven't we been through this already?

wow, you are sure good at letting your imagination run wild! FUD

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b. they think it's easier and more direct for the buyer instead of making them go thru an intermediate step of a cc company

Then offer direct BTC payment as an option. Along with CC. Best of both worlds?

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i just told you why they don't accept cc's. your opinion that they should is just that; your opinion.

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c. they want to avoid chargeback volatility so as to get a better idea of true demand for their product

You mean to shield themselves from people like you? Check. Unfortunately, other ASIC suppliers are accepting CC. The ones that you duped. Good going.

this is what ppl like you do when their logic breaks down, they try to make a strawman attack on their opponents character.

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d. they want to help build the Bitcoin economy by encouraging BTC velocity thru the system

Already answered that one. See the rest of my posts re: velocity.

the only thing you've answered is that you don't understand monetary velocity.

Topic: ► ► ►HashFast Endorsement - page 9. (Read 36908 times)