HashFast launches sales of the Baby Jet - page 53.

allinvain

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Quote from: plasmoske on August 17, 2013, 12:54:14 AM

"Your order is expected to ship between October 20 and October 30, 2013. Physical delivery of your order will take place within days, depending on the shipment method selected. HashFast guarantees that all "Baby Jet" units from our first production batch will be delivered by December 31, 2013"

So basically their term allows them to hold your miners, use it to mine bitcoins and ship it to prior to Dec 31 (when it's completely useless) without them getting into trouble. Sounds cool.

That better not happen or else Silicon Valley will burn that day! I am sick and tired of ASIC producers mining with customer hardware. Isn't it enough that we bankrolled them?

plasmoske

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The realist

"Your order is expected to ship between October 20 and October 30, 2013. Physical delivery of your order will take place within days, depending on the shipment method selected. HashFast guarantees that all "Baby Jet" units from our first production batch will be delivered by December 31, 2013"

So basically their term allows them to hold your miners, use it to mine bitcoins and ship it to prior to Dec 31 (when it's completely useless) without them getting into trouble. Sounds cool.

pmorici

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Quote from: cypherdoc on August 16, 2013, 11:34:48 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 16, 2013, 11:29:14 PM

Quote from: pmorici on August 16, 2013, 11:22:14 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 16, 2013, 11:04:55 PM

15 days will be plenty of time.[/i]

I agree, though I think the more problematic issue at this point is the unspecific terms of their MPP. Are they going to calculate ROI in BTC or USD? Because they are taking payments in BTC so if they are banking on the price of BTC going up to claim ROI in USD terms that is lame. There haven't been enough specifics to know what their thinking is on this. My Expectations is that ROI will be in BTC terms since I paid in BTC.

my basic understanding of this is that ~~everything will be calculated in BTC,~~ but yes, you'll have to get it straight from the company.

actually, i believe i remember Simon somewhere buried back in one of these threads said that only enough BTC will be returned to equal the original $5600. you'd better check on that.

This is the thread discussing the MPP; https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hashfast-miner-protection-program-discussion-272906

The official announcement from Simon says, "ROI calculated from the daily difficulty level, block arrival rate, and hash rate of equipment delivered.". No mention to USD<> BTC exchange rate coming into the equation. Further down someone asks if ROI will be calculated in BTC or USD and I think the general concensus is it should be in BTC to be meaningful, but it doesn't look like there was ever an official answer just that annoying guy saying for the 500th time how he wouldn't do a pre order w/o paypal or CC's.

spiral_mind

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I have to say it is definitely suspicious.

-No real proof that their product actually exists or works
-Payment in Bitcoin only so they can run with the money if they want to
-no proof that they are who they say they are
-if it's too good to be true it probably is (they're promising 28nm technology very very quickly)

cypherdoc

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Quote from: cypherdoc on August 16, 2013, 11:29:14 PM

Quote from: pmorici on August 16, 2013, 11:22:14 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 16, 2013, 11:04:55 PM

15 days will be plenty of time.[/i]

I agree, though I think the more problematic issue at this point is the unspecific terms of their MPP. Are they going to calculate ROI in BTC or USD? Because they are taking payments in BTC so if they are banking on the price of BTC going up to claim ROI in USD terms that is lame. There haven't been enough specifics to know what their thinking is on this. My Expectations is that ROI will be in BTC terms since I paid in BTC.

my basic understanding of this is that ~~everything will be calculated in BTC,~~ but yes, you'll have to get it straight from the company.

actually, i believe i remember Simon somewhere buried back in one of these threads said that only enough BTC will be returned to equal the original $5600. you'd better check on that.

cypherdoc

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Activity: 1764

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Quote from: pmorici on August 16, 2013, 11:22:14 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 16, 2013, 11:04:55 PM

15 days will be plenty of time.[/i]

I agree, though I think the more problematic issue at this point is the unspecific terms of their MPP. Are they going to calculate ROI in BTC or USD? Because they are taking payments in BTC so if they are banking on the price of BTC going up to claim ROI in USD terms that is lame. There haven't been enough specifics to know what their thinking is on this. My Expectations is that ROI will be in BTC terms since I paid in BTC.

my basic understanding of this is that everything will be calculated in BTC, but yes, you'll have to get it straight from the company.

pmorici

sr. member

Activity: 479

Merit: 250

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 16, 2013, 11:04:55 PM

15 days will be plenty of time.[/i]

I agree, though I think the more problematic issue at this point is the unspecific terms of their MPP. Are they going to calculate ROI in BTC or USD? Because they are taking payments in BTC so if they are banking on the price of BTC going up to claim ROI in USD terms that is lame. There haven't been enough specifics to know what their thinking is on this. My Expectations is that ROI will be in BTC terms since I paid in BTC.

cypherdoc

legendary

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Quote from: ninjarobot on August 16, 2013, 10:49:53 PM

Today I received a new order confirmation from HashFast for my august 9 order. It contains the following fine print (emphasis mine):

Quote

Your order is expected to ship between October 20 and October 30, 2013. Physical delivery of your order will take place within days, depending on the shipment method selected. HashFast guarantees that all "Baby Jet" units from our first production batch will be delivered by December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more Baby Jet units, and HashFast does not deliver such units by that date, then Buyer may at his or her discretion, cancel the undelivered portion and HashFast will issue a full refund the payment for the units that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer's sole and exclusive remedy for HashFast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date. Buyer must cancel the order and request a refund by January 15, 2014 to avail him or herself of this remedy. Buyer to pay all taxes, duties and shipping costs on units delivered.

I did not remember seeing this clause when I ordered an am not very happy about it. Basically they give customers only 15 days recourse to cancel if they don't deliver by December 31st.

I saved a copy of the Terms of Sale when I bought and compared with the current version:

old version:

Quote

DELIVERY AND QUANTITIES.

Products shall be delivered EXWORKS (Incoterms 2000) Hashfast’s manufacturing facility, or other facility as designated by Hashfast, unless otherwise agreed in writing between Hashfast and Buyer. Except for delivery dates explicitly guaranteed in the order confirmation, delivery dates communicated or acknowledged by Hashfast are approximate only, and Hashfast shall not be liable for, nor shall Hashfast be in breach of its obligations to Buyer because of any delivery made within a reasonable time before or after the stated delivery date. Timely delivery requires Buyer to provide all necessary order and delivery information sufficiently prior to the agreed delivery date.
In the event Buyer contests delivery, the Buyer must request a proof of delivery from Hashfast within ten (10) days of the date of Hashfast’s invoice or guaranteed delivery date (whichever occurs first), otherwise delivery shall be deemed completed. If Buyer fails to take delivery, then Hashfast may deliver the Products in consignment at Buyer’s costs and expenses.
Buyer will give Hashfast written notice of failure to deliver and thirty (30) days within which to cure, unless the order confirmation explicitly guarantees a delivery date. In any case, Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy after such cure period or guaranteed delivery date is to cancel the affected and undelivered portions of the order.
No order, Agreement or any part thereof may be rescheduled or cancelled without Hashfast’s prior written consent.

new version:

Quote

DELIVERY AND QUANTITIES.
(a) Guaranteed Baby Jet Delivery Dates. All of the 550 Baby Jet units from Hashfast’s first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more units of such Baby Jets, and Hashfast does not deliver such units by that date, then Buyer may cancel the undelivered portion of the order at Buyer’s request and Hashfast will refund the payment for the units that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy for Hashfast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date, and Buyer must cancel the order by January 15, 2014 to avail itself of this remedy.

(b) Other Delivery Dates. Except for the delivery dates described in Section 3(a) above and delivery dates explicitly guaranteed using the words “guaranteed delivery” in the order confirmation sent by Hashfast: (i) delivery dates communicated or acknowledged by Hashfast are approximate only; (ii) Hashfast shall not be liable for, nor shall Hashfast be in breach of its obligations to Buyer because of any delivery made within a reasonable time before or after the stated delivery date; and (iii) Buyer will give Hashfast written notice of failure to deliver and ten (10) days within which to cure. In any case, Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy after such cure period or guaranteed delivery date is to cancel the affected and undelivered portions of the order, and receive a refund for the undelivered portions that were cancelled.

(c) Products shall be delivered EXWORKS (Incoterms 2000) Hashfast’ manufacturing facility, or other facility as designated by Hashfast, unless otherwise agreed in writing between Hashfast and Buyer.

(d) In the event Buyer contests delivery, the Buyer must request a proof of delivery from Hashfast within ten (10) days of the date of Hashfast’ invoice or guaranteed delivery date (whichever occurs first), otherwise delivery shall be deemed completed. If Buyer fails to take delivery, then Hashfast may deliver the Products in consignment at Buyer’s costs and expenses. Timely delivery requires Buyer to provide all necessary order and delivery information sufficiently prior to the agreed delivery date. Delivery may also be contingent on full payment. No order, Agreement or any part thereof may be rescheduled or cancelled without Hashfast’ prior written consent except for cancellations permitted under this Section 3.

Interestingly both the old and the new Terms of Sale are labeled 'HASHFAST ONLINE TERMS OF SALE Ver. 1.B – Revised August 8, 2013' even though they are different.

So only 15 days to get a refund after the December shipping date. Not cool HashFast. Don't get me wrong, I like the MPP you guys have rolled out recently. But changing the Terms of Sale without notifying customers is a bit sneaky TBH. I expect this behavior from a company like BFL, but not HashFast.

come on ninja.

the mere fact that they actually inserted the full refund clause for Dec 31 as they had been advertising previously is a huge plus. even i, as the paid sponsor, have been stressing over this single promise not being in the T&C. i have been pushing them hard to get this inserted somewhere. this makes it a reality as opposed to before when it wasn't sure if they were merely talking up a scam.

i guarantee you that you, i, and every other BJ buyer btwn Nov 1 to Dec 31 will be on high red alert if they don't deliver in Oct as promised and ready to jam the refund button come Jan 1.

15 days will be plenty of time.

ninjarobot

hero member

Activity: 761

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Mine Silent, Mine Deep

Today I received a new order confirmation from HashFast for my august 9 order. It contains the following fine print (emphasis mine):

Quote

Your order is expected to ship between October 20 and October 30, 2013. Physical delivery of your order will take place within days, depending on the shipment method selected. HashFast guarantees that all "Baby Jet" units from our first production batch will be delivered by December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more Baby Jet units, and HashFast does not deliver such units by that date, then Buyer may at his or her discretion, cancel the undelivered portion and HashFast will issue a full refund the payment for the units that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer's sole and exclusive remedy for HashFast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date. Buyer must cancel the order and request a refund by January 15, 2014 to avail him or herself of this remedy. Buyer to pay all taxes, duties and shipping costs on units delivered.

I did not remember seeing this clause when I ordered an am not very happy about it. Basically they give customers only 15 days recourse to cancel if they don't deliver by December 31st.

I saved a copy of the Terms of Sale when I bought and compared with the current version:

old version:

Quote

DELIVERY AND QUANTITIES.

Products shall be delivered EXWORKS (Incoterms 2000) Hashfast’s manufacturing facility, or other facility as designated by Hashfast, unless otherwise agreed in writing between Hashfast and Buyer. Except for delivery dates explicitly guaranteed in the order confirmation, delivery dates communicated or acknowledged by Hashfast are approximate only, and Hashfast shall not be liable for, nor shall Hashfast be in breach of its obligations to Buyer because of any delivery made within a reasonable time before or after the stated delivery date. Timely delivery requires Buyer to provide all necessary order and delivery information sufficiently prior to the agreed delivery date.
In the event Buyer contests delivery, the Buyer must request a proof of delivery from Hashfast within ten (10) days of the date of Hashfast’s invoice or guaranteed delivery date (whichever occurs first), otherwise delivery shall be deemed completed. If Buyer fails to take delivery, then Hashfast may deliver the Products in consignment at Buyer’s costs and expenses.
Buyer will give Hashfast written notice of failure to deliver and thirty (30) days within which to cure, unless the order confirmation explicitly guarantees a delivery date. In any case, Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy after such cure period or guaranteed delivery date is to cancel the affected and undelivered portions of the order.
No order, Agreement or any part thereof may be rescheduled or cancelled without Hashfast’s prior written consent.

new version:

Quote

DELIVERY AND QUANTITIES.
(a) Guaranteed Baby Jet Delivery Dates. All of the 550 Baby Jet units from Hashfast’s first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more units of such Baby Jets, and Hashfast does not deliver such units by that date, then Buyer may cancel the undelivered portion of the order at Buyer’s request and Hashfast will refund the payment for the units that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy for Hashfast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date, and Buyer must cancel the order by January 15, 2014 to avail itself of this remedy.

(b) Other Delivery Dates. Except for the delivery dates described in Section 3(a) above and delivery dates explicitly guaranteed using the words “guaranteed delivery” in the order confirmation sent by Hashfast: (i) delivery dates communicated or acknowledged by Hashfast are approximate only; (ii) Hashfast shall not be liable for, nor shall Hashfast be in breach of its obligations to Buyer because of any delivery made within a reasonable time before or after the stated delivery date; and (iii) Buyer will give Hashfast written notice of failure to deliver and ten (10) days within which to cure. In any case, Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy after such cure period or guaranteed delivery date is to cancel the affected and undelivered portions of the order, and receive a refund for the undelivered portions that were cancelled.

(c) Products shall be delivered EXWORKS (Incoterms 2000) Hashfast’ manufacturing facility, or other facility as designated by Hashfast, unless otherwise agreed in writing between Hashfast and Buyer.

(d) In the event Buyer contests delivery, the Buyer must request a proof of delivery from Hashfast within ten (10) days of the date of Hashfast’ invoice or guaranteed delivery date (whichever occurs first), otherwise delivery shall be deemed completed. If Buyer fails to take delivery, then Hashfast may deliver the Products in consignment at Buyer’s costs and expenses. Timely delivery requires Buyer to provide all necessary order and delivery information sufficiently prior to the agreed delivery date. Delivery may also be contingent on full payment. No order, Agreement or any part thereof may be rescheduled or cancelled without Hashfast’ prior written consent except for cancellations permitted under this Section 3.

Interestingly both the old and the new Terms of Sale are labeled 'HASHFAST ONLINE TERMS OF SALE Ver. 1.B – Revised August 8, 2013' even though they are different.

So only 15 days to get a refund after the December shipping date. Not cool HashFast. Don't get me wrong, I like the MPP you guys have rolled out recently. But changing the Terms of Sale without notifying customers is a bit sneaky TBH. I expect this behavior from a company like BFL, but not HashFast.

yottahash

newbie

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Quote from: Amy Woodward on August 14, 2013, 09:56:00 PM

So to confirm: We are selling a total of 550 Baby Jets.

Amy Woodward
VP Engineering
HashFast

Nearly 400 sold! Congrats, down to 159 in stock...

So when's the 'Papa Jet' coming out? Roll Eyes

dropt

legendary

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Quote from: allinvain on August 16, 2013, 04:49:42 PM

Is anyone else's order showing "on-hold" even though hashfast confirmed that the payment was successful? (this was when they had a broken checkout process and had to accept payments manually) I e-mailed one of their reps 3 times already asking for an update, but no answer. Anyone know when the order status will be updated to something more calming like "processing" or "we're off to Hawaii with y0 money f00l!" - anything more informative.

They have a phone number eh.

allinvain

legendary

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Is anyone else's order showing "on-hold" even though hashfast confirmed that the payment was successful? (this was when they had a broken checkout process and had to accept payments manually) I e-mailed one of their reps 3 times already asking for an update, but no answer. Anyone know when the order status will be updated to something more calming like "processing" or "we're off to Hawaii with y0 money f00l!" - anything more informative.

cycloid

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Quote from: cypherdoc on August 15, 2013, 10:01:39 PM

Quote from: cycloid on August 15, 2013, 08:15:04 PM

PREORDERS HURT BTC ECONOMY BY PUTING ENORMOUS GAINS IN HANDS OF BUSINESS
This makes them behave as if they got all of us by the balls (I am thinking BFL / Avalon after batch 1)

I remember this saying fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, 3rd time no preorders lol

STOP PAYING FOR VAPORWARE demand manufacturers do what ALL normal businesses do TAKE RISK and have 100% motivation to get the product in your hands as they need to cover their R&D

This whole money upfront business is making this the only tech sector where electronics actually go UP in prices months after it starts selling.
If you dont like it STOP GIVING them MONEY and hold your BTC which is a hell of an investment on its OWN.

Sorry had to rant but this is just plain WRONG

you are looking at this completely wrong. these are money printing machines that you expect to put money in your pocket while also benefitting from a price rise from a fixed money supply.

show me one pc you've ever bought that returned anything of similar value back to you over time.

Thank you for comparing apples to oranges.

My point is WE ALREADY have companies that take preorders 100% up front and make us wait for months and years.
Nothing about this operation seems any better, if not worse since they have 0 track record.
You are indorsing a business that employs dirty tactics and may end in a disaster since it puts all the risk on members of the community.

Just cause these machines print money does not exempt the business from healthy business practice and respect for their customers money.

af_newbie

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 15, 2013, 10:15:28 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on August 15, 2013, 09:19:45 PM

This is obvious scam to me. I ordered both BFL and Avalon pre-orders because I had their FPGA products in my hands.

How did you have FPGA in your hand? You obviously didn't trust them until they had delivered a product so what were those companies making prior to FPGAs?

I bought used BFL, (new/used) Icarus FPGAs .
I ordered ASIC pre-orders from BFL and Avalon after running their FPGA products for months.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be pre-ordering from these guys if they had an actual product for sale. Product that people used and reported working.

dropt

legendary

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Quote from: Ytterbium on August 16, 2013, 04:26:39 AM

FPGA's don't take months to make. You just load them up and ship them out. You don't need to pre-order them the same way.

FPGA's themselves probably do take months to make. FPGA miners didn't necessarily take months to make, but then again... they did. You weren't a part of this 'community' back then so I wouldn't expect you to know.

It wasn't uncommon to 'pre-order' FPGA miners. It's unfortunate that the FPGA transition was so short (non-existent). We might still be using them if it weren't for BFL.

minternj

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Quote from: Simon Barber on August 08, 2013, 06:57:25 PM

Logistics

- Order sequence to be posted publicly, sans private information
- Weekly production updates will be sent to the email address attached to each order

Noticed these terms are not on the website now. Is there an update this week, its been 1 week officially. Also when are you publishing the order sequence?

crumbs

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af_newbie brings up many points which are yet to be addressed here.

Ytterbium

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 15, 2013, 10:15:28 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on August 15, 2013, 09:19:45 PM

This is obvious scam to me. I ordered both BFL and Avalon pre-orders because I had their FPGA products in my hands.

How did you have FPGA in your hand? You obviously didn't trust them until they had delivered a product so what were those companies making prior to FPGAs?

FPGA's don't take months to make. You just load them up and ship them out. You don't need to pre-order them the same way.

zedicus

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CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!

A) Shipments anticipated to begin: October 20-30, in order of purchase

B) Shipments anticipated to begin by around: October 20-30, in order of purchase

C) Shipments begins when anticipated: October 20-30, in order of purchase

D) Shipments begin: October 20-30, in order of purchase

Answer ___________

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMoAhjA9dCE

DeathAndTaxes

donator

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: af_newbie on August 15, 2013, 09:19:45 PM

This is obvious scam to me. I ordered both BFL and Avalon pre-orders because I had their FPGA products in my hands.

How did you have FPGA in your hand? You obviously didn't trust them until they had delivered a product so what were those companies making prior to FPGAs?

Topic: HashFast launches sales of the Baby Jet - page 53. (Read 119626 times)