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Topic: HashFast launches sales of the Baby Jet - page 67. (Read 119626 times)

legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
August 08, 2013, 08:50:27 PM
#48
This seems rather premature. I suspect they saw Cointerra coming on the scene, and wanted to take away as much pre-order capital from them as possible. Good luck.

Yeah, Cointerra is supposedly going to deliver in November. If KnC delivers in early November, it'll probably pay for the cost difference at least (hopefully).


I actually doubt the difficulty slope will continue on the same exponential.

I think that's a very naive assumption.

But feel free to throw your money at another ASIC manufacturer when the track record for the entire industry is months to years late on delivery. I for one am not interested unless there is a guaranteed refund or discount for late delivery to compensate for the loss in ROI.

Maybe you should pay attention to what I was actually saying:  I think the slope 'exponent' is actually going to increase as all these large players dump their ASICs.  Once people realize it's not sustainable people will spend less on chips and the slope will start to go back down.  

I expect it will follow a sigmoid function:



But it obviously can't continue exponentially forever. Think about it.

The problem is that it will start to 'level off' when the cost is about break-even with electricity, as it did with GPUs.
Actually, I'd argue that GPU mining mostly leveled off when positive ROI was around 8 months, then the BTC price drove it to break-even with electricity.  I expect to see the same thing with ASICs - people will stop buying when it takes them more than 8 months to recover their initial investment.  The caveat is that preorders screw up the estimates, since no one really knows how much is on preorder, and so no one can properly estimate their break even points.  It could mean we accidentally shoot past the 8 month break-even window to something much longer.

Right now though, a HashFast unit would break even in 10 days.  At increased difficulty (quadrupled by BFL + this alone), you're still only looking at 40 days.  Difficulty would have to rise to 24 times its current rate in order to see the 8 month break even point.  I don't see that happening by October by any means.  Because of this, I think this is still a reasonable investment, should it be legitimate and they deliver on time.

I don't really trust anyone to deliver on time anymore though.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
Cuddling, censored, unicorn-shaped troll.
August 08, 2013, 08:33:55 PM
#47
Hi Simon!

I can see why you needed to have 3 threads on top of the sub, for the launch, but that's a bit overkill, isn't it ?

Also, I have a few questions, care to enlighten me, please?
I might be able to convince Joey into buying a few dozen units.
hero member
Activity: 552
Merit: 500
August 08, 2013, 08:32:00 PM
#46
Placed order but says on hold.  I don't think Bitpay went through

Give bitpay a bit.. haha. umm but yea.. some issues, i think they will get resolved.. its like freaking buying concert tickets Wink
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
August 08, 2013, 08:31:42 PM
#45
Placed order but says on hold.  I don't think Bitpay went through

i've been told there is a large # of orders stuck in the queue.  they're working on it.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
August 08, 2013, 08:27:01 PM
#44
Placed order but says on hold.  I don't think Bitpay went through
hero member
Activity: 631
Merit: 500
August 08, 2013, 08:18:37 PM
#43

But it obviously can't continue exponentially forever. Think about it.


Yeah, but the Fall is probably going to be the steepest part of the curve.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
August 08, 2013, 08:16:59 PM
#42
They are saying they'll refund if they're late.

However, only taking bitcoin - I think a lot of people's BTC might be tied up in KnC and mining shares, if not Avalon chip based pre-orders anyway.

They are offering a refund if late? I didn't see that mentioned on their site anywhere. Perhaps you could point it out? I'll be happy to eat my words if so.

Cypherdoc mentioned in his "paid sponsor" post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hashfast-endorsement-270363

He also said there would be some kind of protection plan if the difficulty goes up too much, but didn't elaborate.  And there's no guarantee that people who place orders today will actually get it.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
August 08, 2013, 08:14:14 PM
#41
This seems rather premature. I suspect they saw Cointerra coming on the scene, and wanted to take away as much pre-order capital from them as possible. Good luck.

Yeah, Cointerra is supposedly going to deliver in November. If KnC delivers in early November, it'll probably pay for the cost difference at least (hopefully).


I actually doubt the difficulty slope will continue on the same exponential.

I think that's a very naive assumption.

But feel free to throw your money at another ASIC manufacturer when the track record for the entire industry is months to years late on delivery. I for one am not interested unless there is a guaranteed refund or discount for late delivery to compensate for the loss in ROI.

Maybe you should pay attention to what I was actually saying:  I think the slope 'exponent' is actually going to increase as all these large players dump their ASICs.  Once people realize it's not sustainable people will spend less on chips and the slope will start to go back down.  

I expect it will follow a sigmoid function:



But it obviously can't continue exponentially forever. Think about it.

The problem is that it will start to 'level off' when the cost is about break-even with electricity, as it did with GPUs.
legendary
Activity: 1121
Merit: 1003
August 08, 2013, 08:12:12 PM
#40
Delivery to Bulgaria (EU Country). Really?HuhHuhHuh??



Holy Moses, so that's how they get some extra money by overcharging on shipping? There's no way shipping to EU costs $750 Roll Eyes.

I guess UPS charges fees based on hashing power now.

are you guys F*cking serious? That's about 3X the price. Company to seems to want to rape customers as much as I can. No credit cards, shipping outrageous. I'm glad I am passing on this one, good luck everyone.

Edit: KnC Miner Shipping price: $ 136.80 (US)
full member
Activity: 150
Merit: 100
Thank you! Thank you! ...
August 08, 2013, 08:09:52 PM
#39
They are saying they'll refund if they're late.

However, only taking bitcoin - I think a lot of people's BTC might be tied up in KnC and mining shares, if not Avalon chip based pre-orders anyway.

They are offering a refund if late? I see someone posted this from their TOS:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2895007

So you must submit a cancellation request and there is a right to cure for 30 days... a long time in the mining world. I will like to see a guaranteed shipping date; not an approximate date, and discounts based on number of days passed that shipping date.


legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
August 08, 2013, 08:07:28 PM
#38
How does anyone know this isn't a scam?  Endorsed by cypherdoc, ok.  But beyond that?

Simon, assuming you're not out to steal people's money (which, truthfully, I don't think you are, but I don't know you're not), what about your ability to deliver?  What if something goes wrong with the design?  It consumes more electricity than expected... ok, now what?  Does it mean a delay of several months for your customers while you re-engineer everything?  Or the chip just flat out doesn't work because of some overlooked hardware bug.  How long will it take to correct it?  Or you can't find a 28nm fab to squeeze you into their schedule.  What will you do?

well, a scam is where a person or group of ppl are trying to collect money w/o actually trying to design or deliver a product.  that's different than just an outright failure or inability to deliver a product while delivering a good faith effort.

this is definitely not the former.  i'm convinced we won't have a problem with the latter.  the risk is more about timing.
Well, I'm asking about both.

How do you know they are making a good faith effort at trying to deliver a product?  So, they have some fancy pictures.  They have some names on a website.  How can a potential customer verify that these names are actually attached to this project?  How can a potential customer know that they are as close as they say they are to delivering the product?  Etc, etc.

first of all, i visited their office all day inside Uniquify.  i met 9 ppl working for the company.  i saw what they could show me.  yes, not the hardware you might want to see but enough that convinced me they are for real.  talked to ppl from Uniquify.  have talked with Eduardo everyday for the last 2 wks about the project.  they are working very hard to make this happen.  there's too many ppl involved and too many documents signed for it to be an outright scam.  there will be a box.  it's just when will it be delivered.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
August 08, 2013, 08:04:12 PM
#37
This seems rather premature. I suspect they saw Cointerra coming on the scene, and wanted to take away as much pre-order capital from them as possible. Good luck.
hero member
Activity: 761
Merit: 500
Mine Silent, Mine Deep
August 08, 2013, 08:03:42 PM
#36
Ordered one. (order 585, although the site lists 503 in stock so I should be in the 1st batch).

Was hoping for 10$ per GH/s for this delivery timeframe (things are going to get crazy). But hey.

Better not pull a BFL on us HashFast!
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
August 08, 2013, 08:02:28 PM
#35
How does anyone know this isn't a scam?  Endorsed by cypherdoc, ok.  But beyond that?

Simon, assuming you're not out to steal people's money (which, truthfully, I don't think you are, but I don't know you're not), what about your ability to deliver?  What if something goes wrong with the design?  It consumes more electricity than expected... ok, now what?  Does it mean a delay of several months for your customers while you re-engineer everything?  Or the chip just flat out doesn't work because of some overlooked hardware bug.  How long will it take to correct it?  Or you can't find a 28nm fab to squeeze you into their schedule.  What will you do?

well, a scam is where a person or group of ppl are trying to collect money w/o actually trying to design or deliver a product.  that's different than just an outright failure or inability to deliver a product while delivering a good faith effort.

this is definitely not the former.  i'm convinced we won't have a problem with the latter.  the risk is more about timing.
Well, I'm asking about both.

How do you know they are making a good faith effort at trying to deliver a product?  So, they have some fancy pictures.  They have some names on a website.  How can a potential customer verify that these names are actually attached to this project?  How can a potential customer know that they are as close as they say they are to delivering the product?  Etc, etc.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
August 08, 2013, 08:02:04 PM
#34
i think you're talking about a business that just wants to pump and dump for a short term play.  i truly don't think HashFast is into that game.  they want a long term business that is viable.  sure, they are going to try and sell as many chips as they can but i'm sure if they see that it's coming at the expense of destroying their own customers and business the free market will force them to scale back.

Except if they burn their customer base they'll be able to switch to self-mining.

If they want to be a viable long term business, then why not commit to discounts/refunds if the are unable to deliver on time? No commitment of that sort tells me they are no better than BFL or Avalon. In the case of delays, they will make their customer suffer the loss in ROI.

They are saying they'll refund if they're late.

However, only taking bitcoin - I think a lot of people's BTC might be tied up in KnC and mining shares, if not Avalon chip based pre-orders anyway.
full member
Activity: 150
Merit: 100
Thank you! Thank you! ...
August 08, 2013, 08:01:47 PM
#33
i truly don't think HashFast is into that game.  they want a long term business that is viable.  sure, they are going to try and sell as many chips as they can but i'm sure if they see that it's coming at the expense of destroying their own customers and business the free market will force them to scale back.

If they want to be a viable long term business, then why not commit to discounts/refunds if they are unable to deliver on time? No commitment of that sort tells me they are no better than BFL or Avalon. In the case of delays, they will make their customer suffer the loss in ROI.

The fact that they will take on NONE of that risk themselves tells me they are not to be trusted. But apparently the world is full of trusting fools eager to part with their money... permanently. ;-)
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
August 08, 2013, 07:57:10 PM
#32
well, a scam is where a person or group of ppl are trying to collect money w/o actually trying to design or deliver a product.  that's different than just an outright failure or inability to deliver a product while delivering a good faith effort.

this is definitely not the former.  i'm convinced we won't have a problem with the latter.  the risk is more about timing.

No, look at BFL.  Clearly they "intended" to produce a unit.  However, they were able to delay and delay shipping products without ever telling anyone how much they'd sold - that kept the difficulty low in order to make their products look like good deals.

If you're planning on selling so many ASICs that your products never make ROI, then it's kind of a scam.

Selling an product that's not likely to make ROI is a bit on the scamy side, because you still have information your customers don't have access too.

i think you're talking about a business that just wants to pump and dump for a short term play.  i truly don't think HashFast is into that game.  they want a long term business that is viable.  sure, they are going to try and sell as many chips as they can but i'm sure if they see that it's coming at the expense of destroying their own customers and business the free market will force them to scale back.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
♫ A wave came crashing like a fist to the jaw ♫
August 08, 2013, 07:56:43 PM
#31
Does this feel like terrahash to anyone else?
full member
Activity: 150
Merit: 100
Thank you! Thank you! ...
August 08, 2013, 07:56:19 PM
#30

I actually doubt the difficulty slope will continue on the same exponential.

I think that's a very naive assumption.

But feel free to throw your money at another ASIC manufacturer when the track record for the entire industry is months to years late on delivery. I for one am not interested unless there is a guaranteed refund or discount for late delivery to compensate for the loss in ROI.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
August 08, 2013, 07:53:19 PM
#29
Delivery to Bulgaria (EU Country). Really?HuhHuhHuh??



Holy Moses, so that's how they get some extra money by overcharging on shipping? There's no way shipping to EU costs $750 Roll Eyes.

I guess UPS charges fees based on hashing power now.
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