Topic: [HAVELOCK] Mintspare (MS) Bitcoin Electronic Trade-in Service - Official Thread - page 13. (Read 35939 times)

Hello Freedomno1,

First off we would like to say that we fully appreciate your well informed posts.

Second, we would like to say that we are huge fans of transparency within our company as well as externally as this is the whole idea behind an IPO. We would like to say that we would happily oblidge making our bankroll address public.

We at MintSpare would also like to recognize an error on our part within the release of our IPO. We failed to include the planned release of our Customer Portal 'Beta'. We are very hard at work finalizing the Beta at this time and it will be released no later than February 1st, 2014.

Furthermore to address another point that you brought up, the accelerated dividend plan would apply to any released shares.

Lastly, we here at MintSpare would gladly accommodate private tours of our facility/warehouse at our location in Miami, FL.

I don't see how it's factored.  They'll still have your Bitcoins (80% of which magically belongs to them because... screw you, pay me).  If they should miraculously be capable of achieving ROI for investors they'll just force buy back the outstanding 20% @ ipo price.  It's explicitly written into the contract that they can do that.

@freedomno1:

Don't overthink it.  Every investor on Havelock has lost money.  No stock is trading above its IPO price.  Traders may have made money, but that's the beauty of trading - money could be made trading scams.  Many have made money trading Labcoin.

You seem to be trying to come up with a hypothetical scenario in which Mintspare is not a scam.  I could come up with one defending perpetual motion engines because... because Maxwell's Demon.  I'm sure I would convince those already thinking that perpetual motion is possible, and those who hope to become stinking rich backing PerpetualMotion LLC.

Mintspare is exactly what it appears to be at first glance - an ambitious money grab.  Factor in Panama, the fact that everything on Havelock is trading below IPO, and the outcome becomes pretty clear.

Clarification Point: Duffer the BTC return with fiat appreciation is factored in unless they run with the coins or the security is broken even after the penetration tests then use section 2 or the case where Mint ends up in a liquidity crisis, I also presume that havelock will not retain the bitcoins in this case since all the IPO is accounted for in the prospectus.

This is why I requested an observable public address for those Bitcoins to ensure the assets held in Bitcoin reserves remain at a constant level.

I presume that there would be no issue as there is no way to break in just from having a display address, but it requires a clarification.  

Stored Funds
The vast majority (98%+) of our bankroll will be kept in Bitcoin. A small part will be kept in dollars for upcoming dollar based expenses.
350 Bitcoins of initial funds will be kept in MintSpare’s Bitcoin reserve. These Bitcoins are used to pay for trade-in electronics so activity should be provable, and verified as well as reserves being maintained.

I am discarding the worst case scenarios although it does happen in the bitcoin world I presume that the office building and address can be visited and confirmed and won't suddenly poof, and tech goods shipped to that address by someone else will need to physically go there and be converted to cash, that said someone else would need to tour the location to be completely satisfied.

MintSpare’s offices and shipping/receiving center are located in Miami, FL, USA
https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/mar/4233927443.html

The Contract Says:

All public MintSpare units will receive twice their normal dividend rates until a total of 0.005 Bitcoin per share has been paid. Afterwards, dividend payouts will proceed as normal.

(Presumes this case applies to share dilution in case another 100,000 are released)

So at minimum it should cover the IPO in BTC value not fiat however that is worth confirming with MintSpare.
(Theoretically share price can drop to less than 0.005 but will be valued at 0.005 Less dividends remaining till IPO price is reached, and the time it takes to reach theoretical 0.005 which will factor into the share price based upon the average dividend)
It means it has bond characteristics all else equal

That said the disclaimer is quite thorough so if I missed a point feel free to re-clarify your point

Disclaimer - Liability and Guarantees
1.The issuer makes no guarantee, either explicit or implied, as to the suitability or fitness for purpose of MS for any investment goal or for the needs of any specific individual.

2. By participating in this listing, buyers of MS units assert and agree that in no event will the issuer or any person or entity involved in the operation of the company be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, direct, indirect, incidental, special, consequential or punitive damages arising out of the buyer's participation in the listing.

3.Section headings used in this document are for convenience only and shall not be given any legal import. Individuals considering participating in this listing should ensure they are familiar with and fully accept the terms of service of the exchange itself; this listing is available solely through the exchange and should not in any way be construed as a direct offer or solicitation from the issuer to potential participants.

4. MintSpare is making no guarantee of future performance of MS bitcoin unit value or the value of Bitcoin in general as compared to any other currency, security or commodity.

5. The investor understands that MintSpare and the exchange operations are in bitcoin only and bitcoin is in an undefined regulatory environment. Bitcoin companies, funds and units might carry greater investment risk than other types of investment funds. The investor must conduct his or her own research before investing.

That said your other points were valid enough, just wanted to clarify that one ^^

seeing IPO's like this makes me want to close my havelock account.

they should really do more to build their credibility and not expose their cliental to these ridiculous terms.

the impression, is that havelock's real clients are the start-ups (who pay big fees) and not the retail investors who need to be thought of as fools to invest in a prospectus like this.

Havelock clearly does not have investor's best interest in mind.  This scam, like much of the Havelock portfolio, is DESIGNED to create a loss for anyone who puts money in.

1 - You get the privilege of buying these scammers a new business.  You take more than 100% of the risk* and if all goes according to their undemonstrated plan, and unproven (and unknown) team, you get 1/500,000 of the profit.


*

• A contract that guarantees you a loss
• Forced buyback for any reason
• Forced Div shrinkage of up to 30% or more (seriously read their "DIVIDENDS" section) your very thin slice of the pie you buy for them is actually worth less than 20%; at their whim
• Variable contract terms clause and NO voting rights

2 - By the time these scammers get around to even deigning to provide you with a dividend, if all goes well (probably won't even be until 2015), the value of the BTC you invested will likely be worth far more than it is today.  Anyone care to guess what the annual average value appreciation of Bitcoin itself has been?  (Hint, it scales exponentially).  

There is no scenario, EVEN IF THIS BUSINESS IS SUCCESSFUL, where suckers (Havelock calls them "investors"), break even, let alone actually earn more than they put in.  This is a blatantly obvious cash grab by scammers teamed up with the unscrupulous Havelock.

I'd actually be willing to bet that Mintspare has already raised at least $125k USD for their startup capital.  But instead of buying BTC at market they've contrived to take yours.  They don't want a business, they want the value appreciation of your Bitcoins for themselves.  

  

This wouldn't even be a good deal if it was denominated entirely in USD.

Gave it a quick read on the last post so looked a bit more at it after reading some of the commentary here
Based on this reply it could theoretically run as a faucet send electronics in get bitcoins out at a rate worth more than electronics if the price rise goes against the company but that's a different risk.

Bitcoin’s value has increased exponentially since its inception. Besides the easy transaction process, customers would be willing to trade in their electronics in the hopes of gaining money investing in the Bitcoin currency.

The numbers below
____

Units offered: 100,000
● Units privately held: 400,000
● Total units: 500,000
● Initial offering price: 0.005 BTC
● Total BTC to be raised: 500 BTC
● Total company valuation: 2500 BTC

Ask is $500,000 for 20% of the equity Stake in the company Valuation of 2.5 Million (Assuming Exchange Rate == $1000/Fiat Unit )

Each share represents 1/500,000th of the total profits of MintSpare.

If necessary, 100,000 additional units may be sold at the 30-day weighted average starting July 1st, 2014.

Dividends split 80 Company 20 Investors at IPO
Maximum Dilution is 40%

At least 70% of profits will be paid out as dividends. This may be adjusted in the interest of shareholders. Any change will be made public through an announcement to all shareholders of MintSpare. The remaining profits will be reinvested in the company.

All public MintSpare units will receive twice their normal dividend rates until a total of 0.005 Bitcoin per share has been paid. Afterwards, dividend payouts will proceed as normal.

Board Seat = 1/5th of all offered shares or 20,000/100,000 Public Market
Cost of Board Seat assuming IPO price is 100 BTC

350 Bitcoins of initial funds will be kept in MintSpare’s Bitcoin reserve. ($350,000) These Bitcoins are used to pay for trade-in electronics. The other 150 Bitcoins ($150,000) will be used for funding initial costs, ongoing costs, and future expansions.

Guess that's the Available data Assets

i'm sorry, I can't help myself.

i imagine the following conversation with a banker.

"we've got a great idea for a business. we're not putting any of our own capital into it. we have no collateral, guarantees or assets aside from what you put into it. we'd like you to fund it 100%. once you've put in the 100 % of needed capital into the business you'll own 20 % of the assets of the company. and of course, as these are virtual shares, it's hard to say that you even own the 20 % you think you own."

yes, maybe more businesses are needed in the virtual currency space but, this is something different. this is a handy BTC shrinking device. insert 1 btc and immediately it becomes worth .2 btc.

maybe it's an amazing idea that will flourish. but the investors hold all the risk and only a fraction of the upside. the promoters have no risk as they're only spending your btc to see if the idea works or not. they haven't even invested the time/energy to get the business started so that they could approach investors with a track record of performance and first-hand knowledge of the challenges of their venture.

this seems like the kind of proposal that you take to your rich uncle hoping that he just closes his eyes and agrees that there is "potential".

really, at the end of the day, i'm curious to know how you guys decided to value 100 % of the start-up and working capital as only 20% of the total equity. 

Model seems viable so under observation the bitcoin value rising up significantly is an interesting factor when building a Bitcoin Based Trading service.

Some models see it at 10K-50K this year from the current 1K so my question is does Mintspare believe that they can convert the assets they receive for a profit greater than potential increases in the Bitcoin currency itself, including the time it takes to ship an asset to the location in question as we do see rapid rises in currency during some periods. A small part will be kept in dollars for upcoming dollar based expenses.

The vast majority (98%+) of our bankroll will be kept in Bitcoin is a great idea, but extending on that is it possible to have an observing address for the bankroll, there should be no security issues with doing so and keeps transparency in the Bitcoin assets to back up the items held in inventory.

Other than that I like the model as it is a proven model, salvage and redistribution is a large industry, my major concern is the increases in bitcoin value exceeding the value of the electronics traded in over the same duration, although reading your prospectus I do see you have planned proper mitigation steps to avoid that issue.

I presume it is too early to ask what is your turnover rate on electronic goods so I will reserve this question for when sales start occurring.

Interesting business and best of luck, we do need more business in the Bitcoin sphere as it helps to grow the digital economy, whether it is going to grow faster than Bitcoin growth well this will be where testing the concept will kick in.

Do you actually have a patent or are you just calling it IP?

Mintspare is the ‘Intellectual Property’ the whole idea of taking a proven business model in the ‘Fiat’ world and remapping and revamping it for the Bitcoin space as well as being the only company within the Bitcoin space to do so. This is the intellectual property we are putting forward to the public for consumption.

So we view this as not just an idea, we are not just a company taking an existing idea and putting it into the Bitcoin space. We are a company that is revamping the idea into a successful business through design, culture, process, technology, customer support, innovation, growth and proper staffing within the Bitcoin world.

To answer your question about who are the minds:

The minds, simply put, are the MintSpare team, composed of the Founder Galfry Puechavy (me) and other essential employees.

I think this is an interesting idea. I share some of the concerns voiced above, some not.

However, what I am really sceptical about is that, according to the prospectus, you want to make a PROFIT of 2,300 BTC in one year with a startup from scratch. I find that VERY hard to believe. If you could do that, the valuation of 2,500 would be an enormous bargain and I would give you all my money.

But maybe I do not understand the market well enough. The prospectus is a little sketchy on the details of how that is supposed to be accomplished. Maybe you can add some detail on the following:
- What is the expected premium you expect to sell the electronics for, after having bought them? Looking at your excel sheet, it seems like you plan to sell them at a 40% premium. Why will the premium be achievable? You state you plan to sell the items competitively to guarantee a quick turnover, but that means that you purchase offers must be extremely low?
- Where do you plan to sell the items (before selling them on your own site)?
- What is the manpower you assumed for a) repair and b) re-sale? It seems like you will need quite a number of people for that. Do you have the technical knowledge for the repairs etc. and wherefrom?
- Why can't I find the founder Galfry Puechavy at least on linkedin?

Thanks!

reading through the prospectus this becomes clear:

the 500 BTC this IPO will raise is supposed to fund 100% of the development and reserve of the company. yet the IPO units account for only 20% of the equity of the company. the website and all other tangible benefits are being funded by the IPO.

that ratio seems impossibly skewed.

basically, in fiat terms, the company actually needs $500,000 to start-up but is valuing their idea at $2,000,000 (and market research?!??). yet the IPO investors incur all of the financial risk. in essence, they value the business concept at a ratio of 4:1 to all of the equity needed to execute the project.

i don't think these are ratios and valuations that would fly in a conventional business world. it does seem quite opportunistic in terms of exploiting a hot market and a (potentially) not very savvy investor retail investment community.

it will be interesting to see if anyone actually participates in this IPO.

Do you plan to sell the electronics for BTC or dollars?  
If for BTC, do you have a list of websites that you already plan to use to list the items?
If for dollars, what service are you using to convert it to BTC?

Your prospectus states:
"Stored Funds
The vast majority (98%+) of our bankroll will be kept in Bitcoin. A small part will be kept in dollars for upcoming dollar based expenses."

Will this be a hot or cold wallet, and what percentage of each?

Edit: James is the owner of Havelock.

What IP and who are "the Minds"?

All true, but I am interested in selling my stuff for BTC - if I was in the US I'd probably choose this over 'fiat world' services, ebay or the like.

Agree the valuation is off though.

Who is James?

2.5 Mill, you guys are nuts, no sales, no revenue, no proof of concept with BTC.

Just a cash grab,

I'm starting to think you guys (james, and the others are just trying to come up with more ways to grab btc)

If you guys went on Dragons Den with this kind of offer you would be laughed off the stage!

First and foremost I would like to possibly explain how an evaluation of this type is achieved.

• Mintspare is the World’s First Bitcoin Trade-In Service period.
• The number was based off of a proven business model within the ‘Fiat’ world.
• This business model has been proven to exceed 100’s of millions in revenue per annum.
• Therefore following this business model to a ‘T’ as well as tapping and implementing original IP (Intellectual Property) from the Minds at Mintspare and marrying it to the Bitcoin world we feel that the evaluation we have arrived at is fair and solid.

Wth Mintspare being a start-up company, what the investor would be buying into is:

• Mintspare being the World’s First Bitcoin Trade-In Service period.
• Mintspare has spared no expense on research and development to be able to corner this marketplace within the Bitcoin world.
• A professionally designed customer portal fully created to draw in the consumer and run them through our ‘Easy’ process to allow them to trade their used electronics for Bitcoin.
• We then re-sell and or refurbish and resell these electronics for a profit.
• We feel that out of all trade in services in the world, Mintspare gives the greatest value (Bitcoin) to our consumers.
• As well as having a terra ferma location and processing warehouse within Miami Florida, USA.

Mintspare is real and we have taken months to arrive at this day. Our evaluation is current and solid and we feel it is just.

+100 Million BTC

500,000 totals units @ .005 BTC each values the whole company at 2,500 BTC.

in fiat currency, that's about $2,500,000.

while it seems like a good concept for a company, i have a hard time seeing how a start-up venture like this could value itself at $2.5 million. what assets would someone be buying into? there isn't even a functional website. . .