Topic: [HAVELOCK] Mintspare (MS) Bitcoin Electronic Trade-in Service - Official Thread - page 8. (Read 35954 times)

That's a fair investment a lot of people made a killing off the Facebook IPO after the panic selling and holding on long, and a lot of individuals will make  money off Twitter holding long and getting positions in now.
That said it's far from a Bitcoin return or loss but the premise does hold at a certain valuation they do become valuable to sideliners where the market determines X to be is the unknown.

Because when I have a passive interest in seeing something succeed, I have no problem investing a bitcoin or two.. If I'm doing something purely to make money, I wait until the math makes sense... Here I like the idea, so I want to contribute. I probably wont make money but who knows.. when the math makes sense I can invest at a much greater scale.

this is what i don't understand, if you know the equity is overvalued and will likely tank when it hits the open market, why buy? why not invest in lottery tickets or something . . .

Think this is overvalued, but I went ahead and picked up 300 shares.. First day of trading probably will not be pretty but who knows. This is a killer idea though, at a 50% discount I would pick up a lot more! I wish you the best of luck with the project- definitely will use this service personally, and as stated elsewhere I think this is a perfect tool to get people their first Bitcoin. I print a magazine (yBitcoin) and would be interested in seeing how we could partner and if we could help your (our!) business grow.

/db

exactly. this is the sort of "prospectus" or "business plan" that you take to your rich uncle and hope that he funds because it looks like you might finally be turning your life around. this is not an investment opportunity to take to the public-at-large.

my personal mandate here is to try and create some financial literacy so that the btc economy can have more credibility more investors and consumers alike.

my hope would be that people would eventually come to the market with fair deals for investors because the community of investors demands it because they are knowledgable, read the materials and understand the parameters.

i think the case here with mintspare should be used as an example of how not to approach the market . . . with a poor and wildly optimistic business plan that offers terrible terms to any potential investors. . . whether the idea (or website) are good or not, is irrelevant. the terms (and business plan) are lousy making it a very poor investment. . .

That's because people *donate* money to Kickstarter projects.  Just like they do to a bum, Salvation Army or the guy playing slide dobro on the subway.  The Florida d00d passes this off as an investment.  If he billed this absurdity as performance art, fewer people would laugh.  As it stands, he's selling illegal, unregistered securities through an unlicenced Panamanian exchange.

Sure, I know you see unregulated exchanges as your ninja way of sticking it to Da Man.  Sadly, each time someone (predictably) loses an eye, bitcoin "investors" turn staunchly law-abiding, quoting the same chapter and verse they laughed at just days ago.
...only to learn that nanny state is neither eager nor able to make their fuckups all better.  The press points fingers and laughs.


Bitcoin has enough scams and dumbass ventures.  We don't need another idiot child losing/making off with your coin.
I'm not here with misguided altruistic designs to save you from yourself.  I am doing this for purely selfish reasons.  The media paints us with broad strokes; if i don't want rats scurrying in front of my house, i have to make sure my neighbor isn't breeding them next door.
thx

Indeed your criticism if valid, and thanks for clarifying. Giving at least 30% would be more fair. But I thought it was a shame, to see successful fund-raisers on kickstarter who give 0% equity, then seeing this great concept getting blasted for giving 20%.

There's another reason one would profit for investing with Mintspare: it will give visibility to Bitcoin, and allow newcomers to receive and hold their first coins, or to spend them in the Bitcoin-economy which would be even better, thus raising the value of all of our digital assets.


When coupled with a useful concept, a dedicated and ambitious team, and the necessary funds, I believe it does, yes.

Well Lynn, I'm glad they've got a sleek website because that certainly makes or breaks a company in this day and age...

But seriously - 100% risk for 20% rewards (max)...I'll pass.

Nope you're wrong. It's 20% equity (equity is the term used to describe ownership) with 40% of revenue (at the discretion of the owner). So investors fund the start-up at 100% of required capital and own 20 % of the company and MAY get 40 % of the revenue (if and when there ever is any after paying his friends salaries etc.)

These terms do not give potential investors an opportunity to share in the upside of the company - even if the venture were successful.

Actually, public investors will start with 40% equity until their initial investments have been paid of. That seems quite fair.
Of course it's risky like all bitcoin-related investment and it might always remain niche, but if it achieves visibility, which by the sleek look of the website, the usefulness of the service and the dedication of the founder I think it will, it could become quite lucrative.

Sorry, who wants 300% ROI in a month? It's never been mentioned on this board and is a dishonest form of argumentation.

Critics of the IPO have been confounded by the fact that Galfry is asking for 100% of the capital required for the project and yet only offering 20 % of the equity. It's an extremely poor ratio (especially since the business is a start-up with no track record) that undermines any investors ability to achieve the potential "upside of the venture".

The other main criticism is the business plan itself which seems to be wildly optimistic and, as Galfry himself admitted, is no longer accurate or representative of the business.

The "trolls" have taken the time to read the prospectus, analyze it and inform the community about the nature of the business venture in a comprehensive and reasoned manner.

Thank you for your support!

We're looking into accepting additional products in the second quarter of 2014, there are a few goals that are currently of higher priority.

That's a great service, I hope you don't mind the trolls who seem to be expecting 300% ROI in a month.
I'd like to know, do you plan on accepting videogames and/or musical instruments?
Thanks

I didn't say havelock was designed to fail.  I'm saying their offerings are generally designed to ensure that no investor will see a return.  The only people capable of winning here are The Panama Fund S.A. and asset issuers. 

I have analyzed it and more importantly, I analyzed the business model. I also read the founder's thoughts behind the valuation and even though I'd buy only half of the BS at best, based on the business model it would seem only logical to IPO a minority of the stock at a high valuation because he is going to need to stay btc heavy in the beginning to buy up product until cash flow positive which would leave him with ample equity room to bring on engineering/logistics talent and VC involvement/guidance.  I also looked at Gazelle which I used maybe a year ago for an iPad and the margins on this type of business model are pretty nasty and the overhead can't be much more other than shipping costs. I also like the fact that it may get someone who hasn't owned btc before enough incentive to easily get their feet in the water. Real tangible products for bitcoin which btw could take off pretty nasty if MS opens up to China - staying in btc as a business will allow an edge against competition like Gazelle and others who may not be able to tap into other countries as easy although I admit I don't know what other countries if any at all Gazelle serves. If he tanks it to keep the btc then I will be the first to take it on the chin, but if it were me I feel I would have more to gain by trying to make it work...there is something potential here.

I had you on ignore not too long ago, but I'm going to venture out on a limb here and entertain you.

Explain how Havelock is designed to fail.

And as for originalbaby - it's quite clear you haven't analysed their IPO in any detail or you would also see that offering 20% of a startup company for 100% of the financial risk is NOT a good proposition.

Your crypto isn't going to work for you if you invest in pretty much anything Havelock offers.  They've designed it to make sure that won't happen.

All good, I appreciate it and I know others do too - there's a bunch of scams out there. I like Havelock listed companies because they have a decent vet process it seems like. That doesn't mean it's even close to fail proof, but I feel comfortable enough to diversify some of my btc holdings and make some of my crypto work for me....at least I feel like I have a better chance than playing satoshi dice lol. It's all a gamble at the end of the day. I have my reservations, but I like the fact I too have found myself wanting to sell my old iphone 5 after I got the note 3 and I listed it on coingig and bitmit for btc and it was a shitty experience. I like knowing I can sell it immediately in a non-auction/instant offer process now...I think that has value. Whether or not he can execute is a whole other story and is going to be debatable until failure or success.

I hear ya, maybe I went a bit overboard, but in all fairness I was just looking out for others.

Admitted lurker here and I appreciate you looking out for the community, but I just think that you've gone overboard. It almost feels like yo're ranting to yourself. All I was saying is that I got the point and I think anyone else who reads through this thread gets it too - in fact I think you would be more effective if you were less dramatic about it - a witch hunt makes it look like you have an agenda or you look biased.