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Topic: Health and Religion - page 48. (Read 210914 times)

legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
April 03, 2018, 09:20:36 AM
'Losing My Religion' - Where Young Europeans Aren't Praying
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-02/losing-my-religion-where-young-europeans-arent-praying





Since the Czech Republic tops the list I am reminded of this earlier post from Okurkabinladin. If I recall correctly he mentioned in one of this posts that he grew up there.

I am that I am. I chose.

My return to God from nihilistic positions, that engulfed the West like a cancer took several years... And it has to some degree purely rational basis. I witnessed time and time again "scientists", who tried to understand desert by counting every single stone in it. It was not problem of the methodology, but of their choices, of their resignation on any non-materialistic argument. Without faith in what you do, all your work loses purpose besides feeding you. Degrading you in process from human being created in His image to something more akin to beast with large cranial capacity.

Faith forms culture, culture forms civilization. Civilization gives a Man purpose. When the faith dies, so does the culture and when culture is replaced civilization ends. Then men start to die. - Patrick Buchanan

Even atheist or rather agnostic greatly benefits from moral compass of religion and faith, as it provides for social stability, hope and drive. Giving entire culture what could be described as "soul". Marxists like Fromm and Freud understood this, as did scientists like Darwin and Newton.

I come from the most agnostic, godless place on planet... And I have witnessed how the place, without faith that formed its culture for the past millenia, slowly turned to Animals farm. Youngest being the hardest hit. Every generation in western Europe is now by full third (!) smaller than the previous one despite peace and welfare and health care. As I saw with my compatriots at foreign owned factories, women sell themselves to highest bidder, while men spend all their income on gambling and paying back high interest loans. Sounds almost like Bitcointalk, right? They dont do it for any purpose, but to feed themselves.

From industrial heart of Europe, into place full of aging, fearful corporate slaves, that wait for highest bidder. Fukuyama was indeed right, his "Last men" cannot be fought on battlefield by "barbarians". However, these "Last men" that I turned my back to also fail to do most most basic of things, that Darwin demands of victors in evolutionary race. Offspring. Because they have only interests, not beliefs. As did Greco-Romans before their demise.

Thats one of the points, why I personally chose to become "born again". I have grown up among secular liberals, saw their fashionable cults masquerading pointless materialism. And saw it for what it is. Nails to the coffin of our culture. I would hate the sight of my children as the "Last men".

If secular liberalism has any future, than why its adherents arent even able to replenish their own numbers? I already mentioned, that sir Darwin was anglican, yes? Well, atheists love to turn to him as a reference aswell. Will you? For a materialistic proof, friend.



Stats, you can look at the following as a list of developed, secular countries. Or as a graveyeard of their respective cultures and tribes. It is your choice. Guess, where is my homeland on the list? The very existence of these facts disprove that you can build anything that survives you on reason alone. It is against human nature. And therefore "science" aswell.


legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
April 03, 2018, 02:00:19 AM
' No it's more like you threw the man into the water and then you offer him a hand, since god created and put us here first. The arbitrary rules are still arbitrary throughout the whole bible like, ''do not work on the sabbath'' or ''your slave can be free after 7 years'' Why 7 years? Why can't I work on the sabbath? Rules should follow logic, otherwise they are meaningless.
...
If the bible was truly inspired by god and god wanted me to believe in him, I wouldn't have these questions, everything would be explained there but it isn't. Why should I get punished for using my intelligence that he gave me?

I agree that rules should follow logic. However, just because we cannot always follow the logic does not mean that the logic is not there.

Take the Sabbath for example. Honoring the Sabbath could be necessary to sustain and propagate religious belief from generation to generation. If a solid ideological/religious substructure necessary to sustain society then the sabbath or a Sabbath equivalent could simply not be optional if one wishes to maintain rather then consume ones society. Fail to honor the Sabbath and the young start to forget and reject their religious foundation. Abandon the religious foundation and the entire society starts to destabilize. Is this happening in the west right now? Time will tell.

You may be correct when you say we are punished for our intelligence. According to Genesis our remotest ancestors exercised their freedom and made a "choice". They obtained/ate/developed sufficient intelligence to have knowledge of good and evil. With this intelligence humans gained the ability to choose evil voluntarily. Every human inherited this "gift" from them.

The "punishment" is the inevitable and logical consequence of the evil humans now freely choose and actively introduce into the world. Why does God allow us to make evil choices? Perhaps he wants us to be free. Freedom necessitates the ability to make choices for better or for worse.
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
April 02, 2018, 06:04:41 PM
The "arbitrary rules" are freely chosen or rejected'' Not freely, you go to hell to get tortured forever if you reject them, that's not freedom. If I point a gun at you and tell you to give me your wallet or I shoot you, sure you have 2 options but you wouldn't consider that freedom, would you?

The possibility of an afterlife is a binary. There either is one or there is not. Let's proceed from the possibility that a heavenly afterlife exists along the general lines outlined in the Bible. What might its characteristics be?

1) It would probably be perfect from a human perspective.

2) It would allow for meaningful action and creativity. If it did not then it would be less a paradise and more a gilded playpen or cage.

3) Due to #1 and #2 above there is not a single human being worthy of or capable of proper existence in such an afterlife. Even the best of us are far from perfect. We are all full of varying amounts of falsehood, incoherence, and evil which if allowed expression via freedom of action would disrupt a perfect heaven.

4) Therefore before any human being could be allowed freedom of action in a perfect afterlife our deficiencies (falsehood, incoherence, and evil) would first need to be expunged. Yet these deficiencies are an intrinsic part of who we are.

5) Rectifying (burning away) of large portions of ourselves even if they are false, incoherent, and evil would likely be a very painful process. It would probably not be an exaggeration to describe such a process as the burning of the spirit in eternal hellfire.

6) Putting one through a torturous process of this sort could be the greatest act of mercy possible because the alternative would be oblivion and cessation. Purification though painful would potentially allow that what could be saved to be saved.

There is a strong minority view in Christianity that feels that the suffering of a soul in hell is not eternal.

The Seventh-day Adventist believe this.
See: Annihilationism

Even the Pope if recent news articles are to be believed is a advocate of Annihilationism though to my knowledge this is a minority view in the Catholic tradition.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/30/vatican-scrambles-to-clarify-popes-denial-that-hell-exists

Finally the Jews also believe something like Annihilationism with their views on purgatory.
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1594422/jewish/Do-Jews-Believe-in-Hell.htm


So yes the "arbitrary rules" are freely chosen or rejected. No one is pointing a gun at us. If anything the situation is probably more akin to a drowning man being offered a helping hand. It is up to us to grasp it or push it away.


''So yes the "arbitrary rules" are freely chosen or rejected. No one is pointing a gun at us. If anything the situation is probably more akin to a drowning man being offered a helping hand. It is up to us to grasp it or push it away. '' No it's more like you threw the man into the water and then you offer him a hand, since god created and put us here first. The arbitrary rules are still arbitrary throughout the whole bible like, ''do not work on the sabbath'' or ''your slave can be free after 7 years'' Why 7 years? Why can't I work on the sabbath? Rules should follow logic, otherwise they are meaningless.

Heaven as described in the bible is impossible, even if you are a believer in god and you go to heaven, what would prevent humans from harming others when they are there? Certainly a lot of believers here turned evil and even killed people. Also the huge problem with the fairness of the process like children dying too young or someone getting killed. What if the person that was killed was eventually going to accept god but he couldn't because he was killed? What about kids or babies that die too soon? What about the infinite amount of people that could have existed but don't?

If the bible was truly inspired by god and god wanted me to believe in him, I wouldn't have these questions, everything would be explained there but it isn't. Why should I get punished for using my intelligence that he gave me?
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
April 02, 2018, 02:35:21 PM
The "arbitrary rules" are freely chosen or rejected'' Not freely, you go to hell to get tortured forever if you reject them, that's not freedom. If I point a gun at you and tell you to give me your wallet or I shoot you, sure you have 2 options but you wouldn't consider that freedom, would you?

The possibility of an afterlife is a binary. There either is one or there is not. Let's proceed from the possibility that a heavenly afterlife exists along the general lines outlined in the Bible. What might its characteristics be?

1) It would probably be perfect from a human perspective.

2) It would allow for meaningful action and creativity. If it did not then it would be less a paradise and more a gilded playpen or cage.

3) Due to #1 and #2 above there is not a single human being worthy of or capable of proper existence in such an afterlife. Even the best of us are far from perfect. We are all full of varying amounts of falsehood, incoherence, and evil which if allowed expression via freedom of action would disrupt a perfect heaven.

4) Therefore before any human being could be allowed freedom of action in a perfect afterlife our deficiencies (falsehood, incoherence, and evil) would first need to be expunged. Yet these deficiencies are an intrinsic part of who we are.

5) Rectifying (burning away) of large portions of ourselves even if they are false, incoherent, and evil would likely be a very painful process. It would probably not be an exaggeration to describe such a process as the burning of the spirit in eternal hellfire.

6) Putting one through a torturous process of this sort could be the greatest act of mercy possible because the alternative would be oblivion and cessation. Purification though painful would potentially allow that what could be saved to be saved.

There is a strong minority view in Christianity that feels that the suffering of a soul in hell is not eternal.

The Seventh-day Adventist believe this.
See: Annihilationism

Even the Pope if recent news articles are to be believed is a advocate of Annihilationism though to my knowledge this is a minority view in the Catholic tradition.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/30/vatican-scrambles-to-clarify-popes-denial-that-hell-exists

Finally the Jews also believe something like Annihilationism with their views on purgatory.
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1594422/jewish/Do-Jews-Believe-in-Hell.htm


So yes the "arbitrary rules" are freely chosen or rejected. No one is pointing a gun at us. If anything the situation is probably more akin to a drowning man being offered a helping hand. It is up to us to grasp it or push it away.
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
April 01, 2018, 11:47:08 PM
Islam as a perfect and complete religion. Has established principles in guarding the balance of the human body. Among the ways Islam maintains health by maintaining hygiene and implementing syariat wudlu and bathing routinely for every Muslim

Stoning people to death is far from perfect.

Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Temujin, and many other murders did what they did because they didn't have religion. The few executions done by people in the name of religion, were done by liars who only said they were doing it for religious purposes. When religious peoples protect themselves by killing others who are harming them, or when they do it to protect other people who are being harmed, there is righteousness in that kind of killing.

Cool

''what they did because they didn't have religion.'' Are you saying they murdered people because they didn't have a religion? ''The few executions done by people in the name of religion'' Few, lol. Crusades, Inquisition not to mention how many times god himself murders people. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com.es/2008/04/bibles-greatest-massacres.html
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Massacres_in_the_name_of_a_peaceful_faith



Do you mean you aren't allowed to do with your property what you will? Do you mean you can't put your dog down if he is sickly and old? How much more God, Who owns everything? I mean, when He puts unbelievers to death, He is keeping them from sinning more, so that they have more to pay for in their eternity in Hell. Such a loving God that He is even blessing those who hate Him.

Stalin alone killed off more than the Crusades could have thought of killing; and that often in the name of paranoia, not religion. And that is only Stalin. The 4 names I mentioned are only a handful of evil people who murder for greed rather than religion. Greed and selfishness killed way more people ever than religion. And most of the time religion stopped the killing.

You have things a bit backward, as usual.

Cool

So basically you are saying it's ok for god to kill anyone anywhere anytime because we are his property. I can put my dog down if he is sick and dying, on the other hand god and others in the bible killed people not because they were sick but because they wanted to. ''He puts unbelievers to death, He is keeping them from sinning more'' Isn't that taking away their freedom that you keep mentioning? Then why bother creating them at all, it would be better to not create them, that would keep them from sinning at all, wouldn't it?
I see you are backwards as usual.

Killing Christians sends them to Heaven where there is more joyful freedom than we can imagine in this life.



''Such a loving God that He is even blessing those who hate Him.'' He could also not punish unbelievers at all if he was such a loving god, he could take everyone to heaven if he wanted to, he could also destroy hell, why does he need to torture people anyways? Your logic is absolutely flawed my friend.

He punished His Son, Jesus, on the cross. Unbelievers punish themselves by not accepting Jesus salvation. Of course, since people can barely do anything at all - try growing another arm, sometime - it is God Who gives unbelievers the punishment that they are asking for... God the Great Giver... even though He would rather see the unbeliever choose salvation.

You are so backwards, you are simply stupid.

Cool

''when He puts unbelievers to death'' You said unbelievers not christians, why are you talking about christians now? ''He punished His Son, Jesus, on the cross.'' '' it is God Who gives unbelievers the punishment that they are asking for'' There is no reason to punish them after they die, no reason at all, only if your god is sadistic and likes to see people suffer.

You just read the answer to your question. Are you so blind that you can't see the answer right next to the question it answers? Unbelievers are asking for punishment when they reject the salvation God offers. Don't you want God to give you the things you ask for? Become a believer so that you stop asking for damnation. Otherwise God will give you the Hell you are asking for.

Because we all are such children, God has mercy on us for a time. But the mercy time ends for the unbelievers when they die. Why? Because they aren't alive to change their unbelief into belief any longer. By dying in unbelief, they lock themselves into it.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
April 01, 2018, 11:41:00 PM
Astargath, you are so backward that it's almost unbelievable. Are you trying to tell us that if God took your freedom to go to Hell away from you, you would complain to Him in Heaven, through eternity, about how unfair He was to take your freedom away from you? He isn't going to put up with your complaints in Heaven. You are making your choice. And it looks like you are choosing Hell. If you want freedom, choose Jesus salvation so that you can be free in the only place where joyful freedom will be able to be found... Heaven.

Cool

'' You are making your choice. And it looks like you are choosing Hell. '' Why would anyone chose Hell? Should I just kill you in real life then since killing christians is ok because I send them to heaven?

Are you asking me why you are choosing Hell? You should explain it to all of us. Who knows it better than you?

The reason why God leaves Christians in this life is so that they can gain glory for themselves by bringing others to repentance. Kill anybody, and you are hardening yourself into going to Hell. Kill a Christian, and you send him to glory.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
April 01, 2018, 05:13:38 PM
Astargath, you are so backward that it's almost unbelievable. Are you trying to tell us that if God took your freedom to go to Hell away from you, you would complain to Him in Heaven, through eternity, about how unfair He was to take your freedom away from you? He isn't going to put up with your complaints in Heaven. You are making your choice. And it looks like you are choosing Hell. If you want freedom, choose Jesus salvation so that you can be free in the only place where joyful freedom will be able to be found... Heaven.

Cool

'' You are making your choice. And it looks like you are choosing Hell. '' Why would anyone chose Hell? Should I just kill you in real life then since killing christians is ok because I send them to heaven?
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
April 01, 2018, 05:12:43 PM
Islam as a perfect and complete religion. Has established principles in guarding the balance of the human body. Among the ways Islam maintains health by maintaining hygiene and implementing syariat wudlu and bathing routinely for every Muslim

Stoning people to death is far from perfect.

Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Temujin, and many other murders did what they did because they didn't have religion. The few executions done by people in the name of religion, were done by liars who only said they were doing it for religious purposes. When religious peoples protect themselves by killing others who are harming them, or when they do it to protect other people who are being harmed, there is righteousness in that kind of killing.

Cool

''what they did because they didn't have religion.'' Are you saying they murdered people because they didn't have a religion? ''The few executions done by people in the name of religion'' Few, lol. Crusades, Inquisition not to mention how many times god himself murders people. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com.es/2008/04/bibles-greatest-massacres.html
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Massacres_in_the_name_of_a_peaceful_faith



Do you mean you aren't allowed to do with your property what you will? Do you mean you can't put your dog down if he is sickly and old? How much more God, Who owns everything? I mean, when He puts unbelievers to death, He is keeping them from sinning more, so that they have more to pay for in their eternity in Hell. Such a loving God that He is even blessing those who hate Him.

Stalin alone killed off more than the Crusades could have thought of killing; and that often in the name of paranoia, not religion. And that is only Stalin. The 4 names I mentioned are only a handful of evil people who murder for greed rather than religion. Greed and selfishness killed way more people ever than religion. And most of the time religion stopped the killing.

You have things a bit backward, as usual.

Cool

So basically you are saying it's ok for god to kill anyone anywhere anytime because we are his property. I can put my dog down if he is sick and dying, on the other hand god and others in the bible killed people not because they were sick but because they wanted to. ''He puts unbelievers to death, He is keeping them from sinning more'' Isn't that taking away their freedom that you keep mentioning? Then why bother creating them at all, it would be better to not create them, that would keep them from sinning at all, wouldn't it?
I see you are backwards as usual.

Killing Christians sends them to Heaven where there is more joyful freedom than we can imagine in this life.



''Such a loving God that He is even blessing those who hate Him.'' He could also not punish unbelievers at all if he was such a loving god, he could take everyone to heaven if he wanted to, he could also destroy hell, why does he need to torture people anyways? Your logic is absolutely flawed my friend.

He punished His Son, Jesus, on the cross. Unbelievers punish themselves by not accepting Jesus salvation. Of course, since people can barely do anything at all - try growing another arm, sometime - it is God Who gives unbelievers the punishment that they are asking for... God the Great Giver... even though He would rather see the unbeliever choose salvation.

You are so backwards, you are simply stupid.

Cool

''when He puts unbelievers to death'' You said unbelievers not christians, why are you talking about christians now? ''He punished His Son, Jesus, on the cross.'' '' it is God Who gives unbelievers the punishment that they are asking for'' There is no reason to punish them after they die, no reason at all, only if your god is sadistic and likes to see people suffer.
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
April 01, 2018, 04:14:06 PM
Astargath, you are so backward that it's almost unbelievable. Are you trying to tell us that if God took your freedom to go to Hell away from you, you would complain to Him in Heaven, through eternity, about how unfair He was to take your freedom away from you? He isn't going to put up with your complaints in Heaven. You are making your choice. And it looks like you are choosing Hell. If you want freedom, choose Jesus salvation so that you can be free in the only place where joyful freedom will be able to be found... Heaven.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
April 01, 2018, 04:07:39 PM
Islam as a perfect and complete religion. Has established principles in guarding the balance of the human body. Among the ways Islam maintains health by maintaining hygiene and implementing syariat wudlu and bathing routinely for every Muslim

Stoning people to death is far from perfect.

Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Temujin, and many other murders did what they did because they didn't have religion. The few executions done by people in the name of religion, were done by liars who only said they were doing it for religious purposes. When religious peoples protect themselves by killing others who are harming them, or when they do it to protect other people who are being harmed, there is righteousness in that kind of killing.

Cool

''what they did because they didn't have religion.'' Are you saying they murdered people because they didn't have a religion? ''The few executions done by people in the name of religion'' Few, lol. Crusades, Inquisition not to mention how many times god himself murders people. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com.es/2008/04/bibles-greatest-massacres.html
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Massacres_in_the_name_of_a_peaceful_faith



Do you mean you aren't allowed to do with your property what you will? Do you mean you can't put your dog down if he is sickly and old? How much more God, Who owns everything? I mean, when He puts unbelievers to death, He is keeping them from sinning more, so that they have more to pay for in their eternity in Hell. Such a loving God that He is even blessing those who hate Him.

Stalin alone killed off more than the Crusades could have thought of killing; and that often in the name of paranoia, not religion. And that is only Stalin. The 4 names I mentioned are only a handful of evil people who murder for greed rather than religion. Greed and selfishness killed way more people ever than religion. And most of the time religion stopped the killing.

You have things a bit backward, as usual.

Cool

So basically you are saying it's ok for god to kill anyone anywhere anytime because we are his property. I can put my dog down if he is sick and dying, on the other hand god and others in the bible killed people not because they were sick but because they wanted to. ''He puts unbelievers to death, He is keeping them from sinning more'' Isn't that taking away their freedom that you keep mentioning? Then why bother creating them at all, it would be better to not create them, that would keep them from sinning at all, wouldn't it?
I see you are backwards as usual.

Killing Christians sends them to Heaven where there is more joyful freedom than we can imagine in this life.



''Such a loving God that He is even blessing those who hate Him.'' He could also not punish unbelievers at all if he was such a loving god, he could take everyone to heaven if he wanted to, he could also destroy hell, why does he need to torture people anyways? Your logic is absolutely flawed my friend.

He punished His Son, Jesus, on the cross. Unbelievers punish themselves by not accepting Jesus salvation. Of course, since people can barely do anything at all - try growing another arm, sometime - it is God Who gives unbelievers the punishment that they are asking for... God the Great Giver... even though He would rather see the unbeliever choose salvation.

You are so backwards, you are simply stupid.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
April 01, 2018, 03:49:54 PM
Islam as a perfect and complete religion. Has established principles in guarding the balance of the human body. Among the ways Islam maintains health by maintaining hygiene and implementing syariat wudlu and bathing routinely for every Muslim

Stoning people to death is far from perfect.

Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Temujin, and many other murders did what they did because they didn't have religion. The few executions done by people in the name of religion, were done by liars who only said they were doing it for religious purposes. When religious peoples protect themselves by killing others who are harming them, or when they do it to protect other people who are being harmed, there is righteousness in that kind of killing.

Cool

''what they did because they didn't have religion.'' Are you saying they murdered people because they didn't have a religion? ''The few executions done by people in the name of religion'' Few, lol. Crusades, Inquisition not to mention how many times god himself murders people. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com.es/2008/04/bibles-greatest-massacres.html
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Massacres_in_the_name_of_a_peaceful_faith



Do you mean you aren't allowed to do with your property what you will? Do you mean you can't put your dog down if he is sickly and old? How much more God, Who owns everything? I mean, when He puts unbelievers to death, He is keeping them from sinning more, so that they have more to pay for in their eternity in Hell. Such a loving God that He is even blessing those who hate Him.

Stalin alone killed off more than the Crusades could have thought of killing; and that often in the name of paranoia, not religion. And that is only Stalin. The 4 names I mentioned are only a handful of evil people who murder for greed rather than religion. Greed and selfishness killed way more people ever than religion. And most of the time religion stopped the killing.

You have things a bit backward, as usual.

Cool

So basically you are saying it's ok for god to kill anyone anywhere anytime because we are his property. I can put my dog down if he is sick and dying, on the other hand god and others in the bible killed people not because they were sick but because they wanted to. ''He puts unbelievers to death, He is keeping them from sinning more'' Isn't that taking away their freedom that you keep mentioning? Then why bother creating them at all, it would be better to not create them, that would keep them from sinning at all, wouldn't it?

''Such a loving God that He is even blessing those who hate Him.'' He could also not punish unbelievers at all if he was such a loving god, he could take everyone to heaven if he wanted to, he could also destroy hell, why does he need to torture people anyways? Your logic is absolutely flawed my friend.
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
April 01, 2018, 02:49:37 PM
Islam as a perfect and complete religion. Has established principles in guarding the balance of the human body. Among the ways Islam maintains health by maintaining hygiene and implementing syariat wudlu and bathing routinely for every Muslim

Stoning people to death is far from perfect.

Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Temujin, and many other murders did what they did because they didn't have religion. The few executions done by people in the name of religion, were done by liars who only said they were doing it for religious purposes. When religious peoples protect themselves by killing others who are harming them, or when they do it to protect other people who are being harmed, there is righteousness in that kind of killing.

Cool

''what they did because they didn't have religion.'' Are you saying they murdered people because they didn't have a religion? ''The few executions done by people in the name of religion'' Few, lol. Crusades, Inquisition not to mention how many times god himself murders people. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com.es/2008/04/bibles-greatest-massacres.html
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Massacres_in_the_name_of_a_peaceful_faith



Do you mean you aren't allowed to do with your property what you will? Do you mean you can't put your dog down if he is sickly and old? How much more God, Who owns everything? I mean, when He puts unbelievers to death, He is keeping them from sinning more, so that they have more to pay for in their eternity in Hell. Such a loving God that He is even blessing those who hate Him.

Stalin alone killed off more than the Crusades could have thought of killing; and that often in the name of paranoia, not religion. And that is only Stalin. The 4 names I mentioned are only a handful of evil people who murder for greed rather than religion. Greed and selfishness killed way more people ever than religion. And most of the time religion stopped the killing.

You have things a bit backward, as usual.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
April 01, 2018, 11:40:15 AM
Islam as a perfect and complete religion. Has established principles in guarding the balance of the human body. Among the ways Islam maintains health by maintaining hygiene and implementing syariat wudlu and bathing routinely for every Muslim

Stoning people to death is far from perfect.

Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Temujin, and many other murders did what they did because they didn't have religion. The few executions done by people in the name of religion, were done by liars who only said they were doing it for religious purposes. When religious peoples protect themselves by killing others who are harming them, or when they do it to protect other people who are being harmed, there is righteousness in that kind of killing.

Cool

''what they did because they didn't have religion.'' Are you saying they murdered people because they didn't have a religion? ''The few executions done by people in the name of religion'' Few, lol. Crusades, Inquisition not to mention how many times god himself murders people. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com.es/2008/04/bibles-greatest-massacres.html
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Massacres_in_the_name_of_a_peaceful_faith

legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
April 01, 2018, 10:13:07 AM
Islam as a perfect and complete religion. Has established principles in guarding the balance of the human body. Among the ways Islam maintains health by maintaining hygiene and implementing syariat wudlu and bathing routinely for every Muslim

Stoning people to death is far from perfect.

Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Temujin, and many other murders did what they did because they didn't have religion. The few executions done by people in the name of religion, were done by liars who only said they were doing it for religious purposes. When religious peoples protect themselves by killing others who are harming them, or when they do it to protect other people who are being harmed, there is righteousness in that kind of killing.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
April 01, 2018, 06:48:18 AM
Islam as a perfect and complete religion. Has established principles in guarding the balance of the human body. Among the ways Islam maintains health by maintaining hygiene and implementing syariat wudlu and bathing routinely for every Muslim

Stoning people to death is far from perfect.
jr. member
Activity: 98
Merit: 1
PISTI
April 01, 2018, 06:11:54 AM
Religion just divide people because of thier own spiritual beliefs. I have my religion but sometimes I dont agree on everything that my preachers say because its against my onw personal will.
newbie
Activity: 116
Merit: 0
April 01, 2018, 04:05:15 AM
Islam as a perfect and complete religion. Has established principles in guarding the balance of the human body. Among the ways Islam maintains health by maintaining hygiene and implementing syariat wudlu and bathing routinely for every Muslim
full member
Activity: 953
Merit: 105
April 01, 2018, 02:37:20 AM
Religion were a collective documentation that supplemented constitution, law, moral teachings and included health teachings.
It always suggests us to have balanced diet, have healthy habits and forbids excessive use of unhealthy substances.
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
March 31, 2018, 06:00:54 PM

1. Ehm didn't god already kill everyone with the flood? Not to mention all the plagues and other methods he used to kill people. How come that was totally ok but when it comes to stopping slavery it isn't?

2. Doesn't god remove your freedom when he makes arbitrary rules? ''Do not work on the sabbath'' Isn't that taking my freedom away?

3. Teaching people to beat their slaves with no punishment isn't exactly teaching people to behave better.

Deep topics here Astargath and I may not be the best one to address them. I will share some very general thoughts, however, in the hopes that they will be useful.

1) God and the flood. Let's operate for a moment from the premise that the destruction outlined in the bible is true either in a literal or a metaphorical sense. What could justify causing such suffering? One possibility is that such things are necessary to maintain freedom via preventing or delaying the emergence of successful totalitarianism. Bruce Charlton discussed this in one of his recent blog posts.  

Successful totalitarianism would be the end of the world - literally
http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/
Quote from: Bruce Charlton
I have previously described the currently well-advanced totalitarian/ transhumanist agenda - in particular that it has a spiritual goal: the goal that as many people as possible will choose self-damnation because they will have come to embrace an inversion of values (the reversal of virtue and sin, beauty and ugliness, truth and lies etc).

If this is ever achieved - if The System gets to a point where it can engineer damnation by rendering free agency ineffectual: then that will be the end of the world.

I mean, that would be a point at which God would bring to an end the 'experiment' of human life on earth. That is what our loving Heavenly Father would surely do - because to have his children born into the certainty of damnation would be an evil that could be avoided by ending the world.

I don't know whether it is, in fact, possible to engineer damnation - perhaps it is not. Perhaps it is just a foolish dream of the forces of evil, and they are wasting their time in trying to achieve it. (I incline to this interpretation myself.)

But if it is possible, then it will not be allowed.

Which implies that at present, since the world continues, it is not possible to engineer damnation - and that we are wholly responsible for our choices.

And that, as a society, we have firmly and decisively chosen evil over Good: specifically, have chosen to assume the incoherent nihilism of materialism over the reality of the divine.

2) The "arbitrary rules" are freely chosen or rejected. Accepting the rules may appear to limit personal freedom but I would challenge this view and push you to look deeply into how you are defining freedom. If you are talking about overall freedom for everybody then a strong argument can be made that the "arbitrary rules" actually maximize freedom and rejecting them makes everyone less free. I made that argument in the linked post below.

See: Freedom and God

3) Regarding slavery I shared my thoughts immediately up thread. I believe the arguments were sound and do not have much more to add. To understand the relationship of religion and slavery I recommend not focusing on individual sentences of a religious text possibly taken out of context but instead look at the broader picture and attempt to answer the following in a non superficial and honest manner.

In a world where slavery was a perfectly acceptable practice for all of human history what was the fundamental agent of change that allowed us to largely abolish it?

1. ''One possibility is that such things are necessary to maintain freedom'' Certainly God would find a better way to do so... Besides what's the point of maintaining ''freedom'' if you are just going to get randomly killed by god anyways?

2. ''The "arbitrary rules" are freely chosen or rejected'' Not freely, you go to hell to get tortured forever if you reject them, that's not freedom. If I point a gun at you and tell you to give me your wallet or I shoot you, sure you have 2 options but you wouldn't consider that freedom, would you?

newbie
Activity: 140
Merit: 0
March 30, 2018, 08:44:07 AM
Religious belief impacts human health in a variety of ways, from blood pressure to psychological well-being.
Surveys regularly show that roughly 90 percent of Peoples say they believe in God or some higher power and 50 percent say religion is very important to them.
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