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Topic: Health and Religion - page 67. (Read 211012 times)

legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
July 17, 2017, 11:21:07 AM
The problem is, that god can do something about it, he can do anything, can't he? If I know that my house will get burned tomorrow and I can prevent it then I will just prevent it, it makes no sense to not do anything about it knowing it's going to happen and then get angry, why would I be angry? It makes no sense as I said. God makes no sense.

If I knew my kids will mess up their lives and I can do something to help them then I will just do something to help them, considering god can do anything then again makes no sense.

This is exactly the point. God made Jesus salvation to help his children. God's anger begins with frustration, and ends with departure.

Why is God frustrated? Because He made the way out for Astargath, and Astargath simply won't accept.

Astargath: Me wanna do it my way. Why God not let me do it my way? Sure, God made it all and owns it all, but God bad because He not let me do it my way.

Things work the way they work. Be glad God made a way out for you, and accept it.

Cool

He would have made them smarter to not commit sin in the first place (And why did he even test them in the first place if he already knew they would fail, like why tell them not to eat from that tree when he already knew). As I said, god is either stupid or doesn't exist (the second option seems the best). A god cannot be frustrated or angry or really have any other emotion. A god would not have emotions because that would also make no sense. How can you be frustrated when you can literally change and do anything? Do you not see that? What can you be angry about if you already know everything?

Don't you ever like a challenge? Don't you play basketball with your friends? Perhaps you struggle with a game of chess, now and again.

God can literally change anything and do anything. But He wanted something where He might have to give His all. And that is what He did when He made people.

People used their tiny amount of power that God gave them, to damn themselves. They did it by not obeying God regarding the fruit of the tree. They could have obeyed. But they chose not to. And death was the result. The kind of death real death is, is damnation. God even warned them about it.

Then God changed things. It was a struggle for Him. But in His almighty power, He DID change things. He brought Jesus salvation into being for those damned people. Now they don't have to be damned any longer.

But, at the same time, God didn't change the one thing that He set out to create in people... people with a free will to accept God or reject Him. So, use your free will to accept God by accepting the way out for you... Jesus salvation. If you don't, you have used your free will to bring final damnation destruction on yourself.

After all, it is what it is. You can't be changed to be a robot without a soul. If you were, damnation wouldn't affect you. Accept life. Accept Jesus salvation.

Cool

There is no free will if everything is already written and god knows what's going to happen.

Since you were programmed to say that, I guess there isn't. But there can be... even for you... like there is for all the sincere Christians.

Cool

Then how will god prevent humans from doing bad things once they get to heaven?

My son. If you really want answers like that, you will have to become a believer so you can go there and find out.

Cool

I was a believer and I got no answers to anything. I read the bible fully and I understood that it was just nonsense. My grandma always used to say she was praying for this or for that and yet her prayers never worked and she has always been a believer. It was clear to me that at that point God didn't exist or he was just evil. There is no point in all the suffering that happens here when he has the power to stop it. Specially the suffering of innocent people, children that are born with diseases and illness without having done anything bad. It shows that god does not exist.

Sounds like you missed a lot in your Bible reading.

In the end, there will be a new universe with joy and perfection. This one will be destroyed right down to its bottom, basic roots, and all the imperfection with it. It will never be "remembered or brought to mind" again... as though it had never existed.

Above all, for you, there is your freedom to choose which part you will be part of. Take your pick. But if you choose destruction, test it out first by, say, cutting off your fingers, one at a time, with a dull knife. The pain of total destruction in the Lake of Fire is going to be a whole lot worse, and forever, because eternity has been placed in our hearts. Is that what you want?

At the same time, consider something in your life that gives you pleasure and joy. Consider never having pleasure and joy for an eternity of time. Is pleasure and joy something that you want to miss out on?

The new universe, and the destruction of the old, are Biblical.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
July 17, 2017, 10:00:01 AM

Watch Christianity’s 2,016-year spread, in just 90 seconds

https://aleteia.org/2017/03/22/watch-christianitys-2016-year-spread-in-just-90-seconds/
Quote
This animated map charts the course of Christianity's growth around the world, from the Apostles' time to our own.

This animated cartography, courtesy of the Western Conservatory, is a striking graphic representation of one of the most important movements in the history of mankind: the spread of Christianity.

The animated map not only shows, in chronological order, the nations that adopted Christianity as a national religion, or regions in which Christianity became statistically the religion with the greatest number of adherents, but also the places where enough historical and archaeological evidence was gathered as to affirm that, at some point, there was indeed a Christian presence in the area. That is, the map includes the first journeys of the apostles and the outward-reaching margins of the early Church.

See Link Below For Animated Map:

https://vimeo.com/113801439


full member
Activity: 406
Merit: 101
July 16, 2017, 03:41:27 PM
Health and religion is a close relationship, because religion teaches us about keeping clean and physical and non-physical health. So religion teaches us to pay attention also to the eating we consume and religion also teaches that life should not be excessive in any way.
Are you talking about longevity? But how then can you control or regulate it? It's not possible, If you do not come up with ways to stop life.
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
July 16, 2017, 12:29:47 PM
The problem is, that god can do something about it, he can do anything, can't he? If I know that my house will get burned tomorrow and I can prevent it then I will just prevent it, it makes no sense to not do anything about it knowing it's going to happen and then get angry, why would I be angry? It makes no sense as I said. God makes no sense.

If I knew my kids will mess up their lives and I can do something to help them then I will just do something to help them, considering god can do anything then again makes no sense.

This is exactly the point. God made Jesus salvation to help his children. God's anger begins with frustration, and ends with departure.

Why is God frustrated? Because He made the way out for Astargath, and Astargath simply won't accept.

Astargath: Me wanna do it my way. Why God not let me do it my way? Sure, God made it all and owns it all, but God bad because He not let me do it my way.

Things work the way they work. Be glad God made a way out for you, and accept it.

Cool

He would have made them smarter to not commit sin in the first place (And why did he even test them in the first place if he already knew they would fail, like why tell them not to eat from that tree when he already knew). As I said, god is either stupid or doesn't exist (the second option seems the best). A god cannot be frustrated or angry or really have any other emotion. A god would not have emotions because that would also make no sense. How can you be frustrated when you can literally change and do anything? Do you not see that? What can you be angry about if you already know everything?

Don't you ever like a challenge? Don't you play basketball with your friends? Perhaps you struggle with a game of chess, now and again.

God can literally change anything and do anything. But He wanted something where He might have to give His all. And that is what He did when He made people.

People used their tiny amount of power that God gave them, to damn themselves. They did it by not obeying God regarding the fruit of the tree. They could have obeyed. But they chose not to. And death was the result. The kind of death real death is, is damnation. God even warned them about it.

Then God changed things. It was a struggle for Him. But in His almighty power, He DID change things. He brought Jesus salvation into being for those damned people. Now they don't have to be damned any longer.

But, at the same time, God didn't change the one thing that He set out to create in people... people with a free will to accept God or reject Him. So, use your free will to accept God by accepting the way out for you... Jesus salvation. If you don't, you have used your free will to bring final damnation destruction on yourself.

After all, it is what it is. You can't be changed to be a robot without a soul. If you were, damnation wouldn't affect you. Accept life. Accept Jesus salvation.

Cool

There is no free will if everything is already written and god knows what's going to happen.

Since you were programmed to say that, I guess there isn't. But there can be... even for you... like there is for all the sincere Christians.

Cool

Then how will god prevent humans from doing bad things once they get to heaven?

My son. If you really want answers like that, you will have to become a believer so you can go there and find out.

Cool

I was a believer and I got no answers to anything. I read the bible fully and I understood that it was just nonsense. My grandma always used to say she was praying for this or for that and yet her prayers never worked and she has always been a believer. It was clear to me that at that point God didn't exist or he was just evil. There is no point in all the suffering that happens here when he has the power to stop it. Specially the suffering of innocent people, children that are born with diseases and illness without having done anything bad. It shows that god does not exist.
full member
Activity: 410
Merit: 100
July 16, 2017, 07:21:23 AM
Health and religion is a close relationship, because religion teaches us about keeping clean and physical and non-physical health. So religion teaches us to pay attention also to the eating we consume and religion also teaches that life should not be excessive in any way.
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
July 16, 2017, 05:58:59 AM
The problem is, that god can do something about it, he can do anything, can't he? If I know that my house will get burned tomorrow and I can prevent it then I will just prevent it, it makes no sense to not do anything about it knowing it's going to happen and then get angry, why would I be angry? It makes no sense as I said. God makes no sense.

If I knew my kids will mess up their lives and I can do something to help them then I will just do something to help them, considering god can do anything then again makes no sense.

This is exactly the point. God made Jesus salvation to help his children. God's anger begins with frustration, and ends with departure.

Why is God frustrated? Because He made the way out for Astargath, and Astargath simply won't accept.

Astargath: Me wanna do it my way. Why God not let me do it my way? Sure, God made it all and owns it all, but God bad because He not let me do it my way.

Things work the way they work. Be glad God made a way out for you, and accept it.

Cool

He would have made them smarter to not commit sin in the first place (And why did he even test them in the first place if he already knew they would fail, like why tell them not to eat from that tree when he already knew). As I said, god is either stupid or doesn't exist (the second option seems the best). A god cannot be frustrated or angry or really have any other emotion. A god would not have emotions because that would also make no sense. How can you be frustrated when you can literally change and do anything? Do you not see that? What can you be angry about if you already know everything?

Don't you ever like a challenge? Don't you play basketball with your friends? Perhaps you struggle with a game of chess, now and again.

God can literally change anything and do anything. But He wanted something where He might have to give His all. And that is what He did when He made people.

People used their tiny amount of power that God gave them, to damn themselves. They did it by not obeying God regarding the fruit of the tree. They could have obeyed. But they chose not to. And death was the result. The kind of death real death is, is damnation. God even warned them about it.

Then God changed things. It was a struggle for Him. But in His almighty power, He DID change things. He brought Jesus salvation into being for those damned people. Now they don't have to be damned any longer.

But, at the same time, God didn't change the one thing that He set out to create in people... people with a free will to accept God or reject Him. So, use your free will to accept God by accepting the way out for you... Jesus salvation. If you don't, you have used your free will to bring final damnation destruction on yourself.

After all, it is what it is. You can't be changed to be a robot without a soul. If you were, damnation wouldn't affect you. Accept life. Accept Jesus salvation.

Cool

There is no free will if everything is already written and god knows what's going to happen.

Since you were programmed to say that, I guess there isn't. But there can be... even for you... like there is for all the sincere Christians.

Cool

Then how will god prevent humans from doing bad things once they get to heaven?

My son. If you really want answers like that, you will have to become a believer so you can go there and find out.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
July 16, 2017, 04:34:44 AM
The problem is, that god can do something about it, he can do anything, can't he? If I know that my house will get burned tomorrow and I can prevent it then I will just prevent it, it makes no sense to not do anything about it knowing it's going to happen and then get angry, why would I be angry? It makes no sense as I said. God makes no sense.

If I knew my kids will mess up their lives and I can do something to help them then I will just do something to help them, considering god can do anything then again makes no sense.

This is exactly the point. God made Jesus salvation to help his children. God's anger begins with frustration, and ends with departure.

Why is God frustrated? Because He made the way out for Astargath, and Astargath simply won't accept.

Astargath: Me wanna do it my way. Why God not let me do it my way? Sure, God made it all and owns it all, but God bad because He not let me do it my way.

Things work the way they work. Be glad God made a way out for you, and accept it.

Cool

He would have made them smarter to not commit sin in the first place (And why did he even test them in the first place if he already knew they would fail, like why tell them not to eat from that tree when he already knew). As I said, god is either stupid or doesn't exist (the second option seems the best). A god cannot be frustrated or angry or really have any other emotion. A god would not have emotions because that would also make no sense. How can you be frustrated when you can literally change and do anything? Do you not see that? What can you be angry about if you already know everything?

Don't you ever like a challenge? Don't you play basketball with your friends? Perhaps you struggle with a game of chess, now and again.

God can literally change anything and do anything. But He wanted something where He might have to give His all. And that is what He did when He made people.

People used their tiny amount of power that God gave them, to damn themselves. They did it by not obeying God regarding the fruit of the tree. They could have obeyed. But they chose not to. And death was the result. The kind of death real death is, is damnation. God even warned them about it.

Then God changed things. It was a struggle for Him. But in His almighty power, He DID change things. He brought Jesus salvation into being for those damned people. Now they don't have to be damned any longer.

But, at the same time, God didn't change the one thing that He set out to create in people... people with a free will to accept God or reject Him. So, use your free will to accept God by accepting the way out for you... Jesus salvation. If you don't, you have used your free will to bring final damnation destruction on yourself.

After all, it is what it is. You can't be changed to be a robot without a soul. If you were, damnation wouldn't affect you. Accept life. Accept Jesus salvation.

Cool

There is no free will if everything is already written and god knows what's going to happen.

Since you were programmed to say that, I guess there isn't. But there can be... even for you... like there is for all the sincere Christians.

Cool

Then how will god prevent humans from doing bad things once they get to heaven?
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
July 15, 2017, 10:24:50 PM
The problem is, that god can do something about it, he can do anything, can't he? If I know that my house will get burned tomorrow and I can prevent it then I will just prevent it, it makes no sense to not do anything about it knowing it's going to happen and then get angry, why would I be angry? It makes no sense as I said. God makes no sense.

If I knew my kids will mess up their lives and I can do something to help them then I will just do something to help them, considering god can do anything then again makes no sense.

This is exactly the point. God made Jesus salvation to help his children. God's anger begins with frustration, and ends with departure.

Why is God frustrated? Because He made the way out for Astargath, and Astargath simply won't accept.

Astargath: Me wanna do it my way. Why God not let me do it my way? Sure, God made it all and owns it all, but God bad because He not let me do it my way.

Things work the way they work. Be glad God made a way out for you, and accept it.

Cool

He would have made them smarter to not commit sin in the first place (And why did he even test them in the first place if he already knew they would fail, like why tell them not to eat from that tree when he already knew). As I said, god is either stupid or doesn't exist (the second option seems the best). A god cannot be frustrated or angry or really have any other emotion. A god would not have emotions because that would also make no sense. How can you be frustrated when you can literally change and do anything? Do you not see that? What can you be angry about if you already know everything?

Don't you ever like a challenge? Don't you play basketball with your friends? Perhaps you struggle with a game of chess, now and again.

God can literally change anything and do anything. But He wanted something where He might have to give His all. And that is what He did when He made people.

People used their tiny amount of power that God gave them, to damn themselves. They did it by not obeying God regarding the fruit of the tree. They could have obeyed. But they chose not to. And death was the result. The kind of death real death is, is damnation. God even warned them about it.

Then God changed things. It was a struggle for Him. But in His almighty power, He DID change things. He brought Jesus salvation into being for those damned people. Now they don't have to be damned any longer.

But, at the same time, God didn't change the one thing that He set out to create in people... people with a free will to accept God or reject Him. So, use your free will to accept God by accepting the way out for you... Jesus salvation. If you don't, you have used your free will to bring final damnation destruction on yourself.

After all, it is what it is. You can't be changed to be a robot without a soul. If you were, damnation wouldn't affect you. Accept life. Accept Jesus salvation.

Cool

There is no free will if everything is already written and god knows what's going to happen.

Since you were programmed to say that, I guess there isn't. But there can be... even for you... like there is for all the sincere Christians.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
July 15, 2017, 07:32:33 PM
The problem is, that god can do something about it, he can do anything, can't he? If I know that my house will get burned tomorrow and I can prevent it then I will just prevent it, it makes no sense to not do anything about it knowing it's going to happen and then get angry, why would I be angry? It makes no sense as I said. God makes no sense.

If I knew my kids will mess up their lives and I can do something to help them then I will just do something to help them, considering god can do anything then again makes no sense.

This is exactly the point. God made Jesus salvation to help his children. God's anger begins with frustration, and ends with departure.

Why is God frustrated? Because He made the way out for Astargath, and Astargath simply won't accept.

Astargath: Me wanna do it my way. Why God not let me do it my way? Sure, God made it all and owns it all, but God bad because He not let me do it my way.

Things work the way they work. Be glad God made a way out for you, and accept it.

Cool

He would have made them smarter to not commit sin in the first place (And why did he even test them in the first place if he already knew they would fail, like why tell them not to eat from that tree when he already knew). As I said, god is either stupid or doesn't exist (the second option seems the best). A god cannot be frustrated or angry or really have any other emotion. A god would not have emotions because that would also make no sense. How can you be frustrated when you can literally change and do anything? Do you not see that? What can you be angry about if you already know everything?

Don't you ever like a challenge? Don't you play basketball with your friends? Perhaps you struggle with a game of chess, now and again.

God can literally change anything and do anything. But He wanted something where He might have to give His all. And that is what He did when He made people.

People used their tiny amount of power that God gave them, to damn themselves. They did it by not obeying God regarding the fruit of the tree. They could have obeyed. But they chose not to. And death was the result. The kind of death real death is, is damnation. God even warned them about it.

Then God changed things. It was a struggle for Him. But in His almighty power, He DID change things. He brought Jesus salvation into being for those damned people. Now they don't have to be damned any longer.

But, at the same time, God didn't change the one thing that He set out to create in people... people with a free will to accept God or reject Him. So, use your free will to accept God by accepting the way out for you... Jesus salvation. If you don't, you have used your free will to bring final damnation destruction on yourself.

After all, it is what it is. You can't be changed to be a robot without a soul. If you were, damnation wouldn't affect you. Accept life. Accept Jesus salvation.

Cool

There is no free will if everything is already written and god knows what's going to happen.
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
July 15, 2017, 05:49:12 PM
The problem is, that god can do something about it, he can do anything, can't he? If I know that my house will get burned tomorrow and I can prevent it then I will just prevent it, it makes no sense to not do anything about it knowing it's going to happen and then get angry, why would I be angry? It makes no sense as I said. God makes no sense.

If I knew my kids will mess up their lives and I can do something to help them then I will just do something to help them, considering god can do anything then again makes no sense.

This is exactly the point. God made Jesus salvation to help his children. God's anger begins with frustration, and ends with departure.

Why is God frustrated? Because He made the way out for Astargath, and Astargath simply won't accept.

Astargath: Me wanna do it my way. Why God not let me do it my way? Sure, God made it all and owns it all, but God bad because He not let me do it my way.

Things work the way they work. Be glad God made a way out for you, and accept it.

Cool

He would have made them smarter to not commit sin in the first place (And why did he even test them in the first place if he already knew they would fail, like why tell them not to eat from that tree when he already knew). As I said, god is either stupid or doesn't exist (the second option seems the best). A god cannot be frustrated or angry or really have any other emotion. A god would not have emotions because that would also make no sense. How can you be frustrated when you can literally change and do anything? Do you not see that? What can you be angry about if you already know everything?

Don't you ever like a challenge? Don't you play basketball with your friends? Perhaps you struggle with a game of chess, now and again.

God can literally change anything and do anything. But He wanted something where He might have to give His all. And that is what He did when He made people.

People used their tiny amount of power that God gave them, to damn themselves. They did it by not obeying God regarding the fruit of the tree. They could have obeyed. But they chose not to. And death was the result. The kind of death real death is, is damnation. God even warned them about it.

Then God changed things. It was a struggle for Him. But in His almighty power, He DID change things. He brought Jesus salvation into being for those damned people. Now they don't have to be damned any longer.

But, at the same time, God didn't change the one thing that He set out to create in people... people with a free will to accept God or reject Him. So, use your free will to accept God by accepting the way out for you... Jesus salvation. If you don't, you have used your free will to bring final damnation destruction on yourself.

After all, it is what it is. You can't be changed to be a robot without a soul. If you were, damnation wouldn't affect you. Accept life. Accept Jesus salvation.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
July 15, 2017, 12:51:34 PM
The problem is, that god can do something about it, he can do anything, can't he? If I know that my house will get burned tomorrow and I can prevent it then I will just prevent it, it makes no sense to not do anything about it knowing it's going to happen and then get angry, why would I be angry? It makes no sense as I said. God makes no sense.

If I knew my kids will mess up their lives and I can do something to help them then I will just do something to help them, considering god can do anything then again makes no sense.

This is exactly the point. God made Jesus salvation to help his children. God's anger begins with frustration, and ends with departure.

Why is God frustrated? Because He made the way out for Astargath, and Astargath simply won't accept.

Astargath: Me wanna do it my way. Why God not let me do it my way? Sure, God made it all and owns it all, but God bad because He not let me do it my way.

Things work the way they work. Be glad God made a way out for you, and accept it.

Cool

He would have made them smarter to not commit sin in the first place (And why did he even test them in the first place if he already knew they would fail, like why tell them not to eat from that tree when he already knew). As I said, god is either stupid or doesn't exist (the second option seems the best). A god cannot be frustrated or angry or really have any other emotion. A god would not have emotions because that would also make no sense. How can you be frustrated when you can literally change and do anything? Do you not see that? What can you be angry about if you already know everything?
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
July 15, 2017, 10:13:25 AM
The problem is, that god can do something about it, he can do anything, can't he? If I know that my house will get burned tomorrow and I can prevent it then I will just prevent it, it makes no sense to not do anything about it knowing it's going to happen and then get angry, why would I be angry? It makes no sense as I said. God makes no sense.

If I knew my kids will mess up their lives and I can do something to help them then I will just do something to help them, considering god can do anything then again makes no sense.

This is exactly the point. God made Jesus salvation to help his children. God's anger begins with frustration, and ends with departure.

Why is God frustrated? Because He made the way out for Astargath, and Astargath simply won't accept.

Astargath: Me wanna do it my way. Why God not let me do it my way? Sure, God made it all and owns it all, but God bad because He not let me do it my way.

Things work the way they work. Be glad God made a way out for you, and accept it.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
July 15, 2017, 10:05:50 AM

The problem is, that god can do something about it, he can do anything, can't he? If I know that my house will get burned tomorrow and I can prevent it then I will just prevent it, it makes no sense to not do anything about it knowing it's going to happen and then get angry, why would I be angry? It makes no sense as I said. God makes no sense.

If I knew my kids will mess up their lives and I can do something to help them then I will just do something to help them, considering god can do anything then again makes no sense.

As for why God does not prevent suffering we must first understand the purpose of Creation.
  
The purpose of the Creation
http://www.azamra.org/Heal/Resources/Torahview.htm
Quote from: The Ramchal
To understand the meaning and purpose of suffering, we must first go back to the very purpose of the Creation and the meaning of our life in this world.

God's purpose in creation was to bestow of His good to another. Since God desired to bestow good, a partial good would not be sufficient. The good that He bestows would have to be the ultimate good that His handiwork could accept. True good exists only in God. His wisdom therefore decreed that the nature of this true benefaction be His giving created things the opportunity to attach themselves to Him to the greatest degree possible for them.

God's wisdom, however, decreed that for such good to be perfect, the one enjoying it must be its master. He must be one who has earned it for himself, and not one associated with it accidentally and without reason.

God therefore arranged and decreed the creation of concepts of both perfection and deficiency, as well as a creature with equal access to both namely, Man. This creature would then be given the means to earn perfection and avoid deficiency.

Man must earn this perfection, however, through his own free will and desire. If he were compelled to choose perfection, then he would not actually be its master, and God's purpose would not be fulfilled. It was therefore necessary that man be created with free will.

Man's inclinations are therefore balanced between good and evil, and he is not compelled toward either of them. He has the power of choice, and is able to choose either side, knowingly and willingly, as well as to possess whichever one he wishes. Man was therefore created with both a Good Urge and an Evil Urge. He has the power to incline himself in whichever direction he desires.

Perhaps God helps us much more than is commonly realized. Delinquent children often fail to appreciate the efforts of their concerned parents behind the scenes until much later in life. If one looks at the world of 1500 BC it was a dark place full of mysticism and brutality. We thought trees were magical, rocks harbored evil spirits, and volcanoes demanded living sacrifices.

A smarter species might have come to understand God without needing to be hit over the head by his reality. Miracles in the Bible and the need for the simplest basic behavior to be written out for us on a slab of stone tells us that humans needed a great deal of outside help.

Perhaps the entire nation of Israel was created to be just the kind of help you think is missing. When Israel chose to nearly destroy itself in futile rebellions against Rome instead of spreading the message of God to a declining empire desperate for spiritual truth perhaps Christianity was even more help for a slow species not really able to figure things out without a few nudges in the right direction.

I'm not talking about suffering. I'm talking about how he made adam and eve knowing they will sin or disobey him and then he punishes them for it. It was already built in by him therefore it makes no sense that he would punish them if he made them to do it. Again nonsensical.

No, that's not what you are talking about. Rather, you are simply trying to make God look bad, and justify yourself some by doing so.

What did God really what when He made people? Here is what He wanted. He wanted people who would honor Him, praise Him, and be his children. The only way to get that is to make them, knowing that they would have to be punished at times.

Now that you understand this, why are you remaining as and object of future punishment? Why are you not doing - as so many other people have - stepping out from under the punishment into the gifts of joy and glory that God made you for? It's your choice, you know.


Me wanna do it my way. God make me this way and that. But me gonna ignore God, and do it my way. Me know God gonna punish me for it. But me wanna do it my way. So, me gonna ignore God's plan of salvation for me and do it my way and get punishment.


Do you want to hurt yourself? Nobody can stop you. You can even kill yourself. Just remember, it's you who are doing it to yourself.

God wanted children. He knew they were going to mess up, and He would have to punish them for it. So He made the only way out for them that is possible to make. Some of them stopped messing up, and are going to miss the punishment - except for a moment in this life. Keep it up. Mess up really good so you get the punishment forever. Or stop messing up and accept Jesus salvation, thereby accepting God as your Parent, and be saved.

Cool

Then why make them in the first place? If you already know they are going to mess up. He made humans essentially just to torture them because he already knew most of them would mess up. There is also no point in waiting for god to comeback. What is he even waiting for if he already knows who is going to accept him or not, again makes no sense.

As I said, above, God wanted children. That's why He made them.

You can't adopt children when there aren't any. You have to make them, or forget it.

God is getting what He wants... children. God is God. He gets what He wants.

Does this mean that He wants children who are enemies of Himself? No, of course not. So, when they mess up, He gives them a way out... Jesus salvation. If He wanted punishment for them, He wouldn't have made a way out.


We, the children of God, are essentially still tiny infants. We might really only be the pattern, like an embryo is a pattern of the person that will be. It is going to take all eternity for us to grow up into God-likeness. That is how great God is.

But, God is so great that, those of us who won't accept Him, still have the God-pattern in us. So, when we destroy ourselves, it will take an eternity of destruction to destroy the God pattern in ourselves.

Your choice.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
July 15, 2017, 09:54:50 AM

The problem is, that god can do something about it, he can do anything, can't he? If I know that my house will get burned tomorrow and I can prevent it then I will just prevent it, it makes no sense to not do anything about it knowing it's going to happen and then get angry, why would I be angry? It makes no sense as I said. God makes no sense.

If I knew my kids will mess up their lives and I can do something to help them then I will just do something to help them, considering god can do anything then again makes no sense.

As for why God does not prevent suffering we must first understand the purpose of Creation.
  
The purpose of the Creation
http://www.azamra.org/Heal/Resources/Torahview.htm
Quote from: The Ramchal
To understand the meaning and purpose of suffering, we must first go back to the very purpose of the Creation and the meaning of our life in this world.

God's purpose in creation was to bestow of His good to another. Since God desired to bestow good, a partial good would not be sufficient. The good that He bestows would have to be the ultimate good that His handiwork could accept. True good exists only in God. His wisdom therefore decreed that the nature of this true benefaction be His giving created things the opportunity to attach themselves to Him to the greatest degree possible for them.

God's wisdom, however, decreed that for such good to be perfect, the one enjoying it must be its master. He must be one who has earned it for himself, and not one associated with it accidentally and without reason.

God therefore arranged and decreed the creation of concepts of both perfection and deficiency, as well as a creature with equal access to both namely, Man. This creature would then be given the means to earn perfection and avoid deficiency.

Man must earn this perfection, however, through his own free will and desire. If he were compelled to choose perfection, then he would not actually be its master, and God's purpose would not be fulfilled. It was therefore necessary that man be created with free will.

Man's inclinations are therefore balanced between good and evil, and he is not compelled toward either of them. He has the power of choice, and is able to choose either side, knowingly and willingly, as well as to possess whichever one he wishes. Man was therefore created with both a Good Urge and an Evil Urge. He has the power to incline himself in whichever direction he desires.

Perhaps God helps us much more than is commonly realized. Delinquent children often fail to appreciate the efforts of their concerned parents behind the scenes until much later in life. If one looks at the world of 1500 BC it was a dark place full of mysticism and brutality. We thought trees were magical, rocks harbored evil spirits, and volcanoes demanded living sacrifices.

A smarter species might have come to understand God without needing to be hit over the head by his reality. Miracles in the Bible and the need for the simplest basic behavior to be written out for us on a slab of stone tells us that humans needed a great deal of outside help.

Perhaps the entire nation of Israel was created to be just the kind of help you think is missing. When Israel chose to nearly destroy itself in futile rebellions against Rome instead of spreading the message of God to a declining empire desperate for spiritual truth perhaps Christianity was even more help for a slow species not really able to figure things out without a few nudges in the right direction.

I'm not talking about suffering. I'm talking about how he made adam and eve knowing they will sin or disobey him and then he punishes them for it. It was already built in by him therefore it makes no sense that he would punish them if he made them to do it. Again nonsensical.

No, that's not what you are talking about. Rather, you are simply trying to make God look bad, and justify yourself some by doing so.

What did God really what when He made people? Here is what He wanted. He wanted people who would honor Him, praise Him, and be his children. The only way to get that is to make them, knowing that they would have to be punished at times.

Now that you understand this, why are you remaining as and object of future punishment? Why are you not doing - as so many other people have - stepping out from under the punishment into the gifts of joy and glory that God made you for? It's your choice, you know.


Me wanna do it my way. God make me this way and that. But me gonna ignore God, and do it my way. Me know God gonna punish me for it. But me wanna do it my way. So, me gonna ignore God's plan of salvation for me and do it my way and get punishment.


Do you want to hurt yourself? Nobody can stop you. You can even kill yourself. Just remember, it's you who are doing it to yourself.

God wanted children. He knew they were going to mess up, and He would have to punish them for it. So He made the only way out for them that is possible to make. Some of them stopped messing up, and are going to miss the punishment - except for a moment in this life. Keep it up. Mess up really good so you get the punishment forever. Or stop messing up and accept Jesus salvation, thereby accepting God as your Parent, and be saved.

Cool

Then why make them in the first place? If you already know they are going to mess up. He made humans essentially just to torture them because he already knew most of them would mess up. There is also no point in waiting for god to comeback. What is he even waiting for if he already knows who is going to accept him or not, again makes no sense.
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
July 15, 2017, 09:44:48 AM

The problem is, that god can do something about it, he can do anything, can't he? If I know that my house will get burned tomorrow and I can prevent it then I will just prevent it, it makes no sense to not do anything about it knowing it's going to happen and then get angry, why would I be angry? It makes no sense as I said. God makes no sense.

If I knew my kids will mess up their lives and I can do something to help them then I will just do something to help them, considering god can do anything then again makes no sense.

As for why God does not prevent suffering we must first understand the purpose of Creation.
  
The purpose of the Creation
http://www.azamra.org/Heal/Resources/Torahview.htm
Quote from: The Ramchal
To understand the meaning and purpose of suffering, we must first go back to the very purpose of the Creation and the meaning of our life in this world.

God's purpose in creation was to bestow of His good to another. Since God desired to bestow good, a partial good would not be sufficient. The good that He bestows would have to be the ultimate good that His handiwork could accept. True good exists only in God. His wisdom therefore decreed that the nature of this true benefaction be His giving created things the opportunity to attach themselves to Him to the greatest degree possible for them.

God's wisdom, however, decreed that for such good to be perfect, the one enjoying it must be its master. He must be one who has earned it for himself, and not one associated with it accidentally and without reason.

God therefore arranged and decreed the creation of concepts of both perfection and deficiency, as well as a creature with equal access to both namely, Man. This creature would then be given the means to earn perfection and avoid deficiency.

Man must earn this perfection, however, through his own free will and desire. If he were compelled to choose perfection, then he would not actually be its master, and God's purpose would not be fulfilled. It was therefore necessary that man be created with free will.

Man's inclinations are therefore balanced between good and evil, and he is not compelled toward either of them. He has the power of choice, and is able to choose either side, knowingly and willingly, as well as to possess whichever one he wishes. Man was therefore created with both a Good Urge and an Evil Urge. He has the power to incline himself in whichever direction he desires.

Perhaps God helps us much more than is commonly realized. Delinquent children often fail to appreciate the efforts of their concerned parents behind the scenes until much later in life. If one looks at the world of 1500 BC it was a dark place full of mysticism and brutality. We thought trees were magical, rocks harbored evil spirits, and volcanoes demanded living sacrifices.

A smarter species might have come to understand God without needing to be hit over the head by his reality. Miracles in the Bible and the need for the simplest basic behavior to be written out for us on a slab of stone tells us that humans needed a great deal of outside help.

Perhaps the entire nation of Israel was created to be just the kind of help you think is missing. When Israel chose to nearly destroy itself in futile rebellions against Rome instead of spreading the message of God to a declining empire desperate for spiritual truth perhaps Christianity was even more help for a slow species not really able to figure things out without a few nudges in the right direction.

I'm not talking about suffering. I'm talking about how he made adam and eve knowing they will sin or disobey him and then he punishes them for it. It was already built in by him therefore it makes no sense that he would punish them if he made them to do it. Again nonsensical.

No, that's not what you are talking about. Rather, you are simply trying to make God look bad, and justify yourself some by doing so.

What did God really what when He made people? Here is what He wanted. He wanted people who would honor Him, praise Him, and be his children. The only way to get that is to make them, knowing that they would have to be punished at times.

Now that you understand this, why are you remaining as and object of future punishment? Why are you not doing - as so many other people have - stepping out from under the punishment into the gifts of joy and glory that God made you for? It's your choice, you know.


Me wanna do it my way. God make me this way and that. But me gonna ignore God, and do it my way. Me know God gonna punish me for it. But me wanna do it my way. So, me gonna ignore God's plan of salvation for me and do it my way and get punishment.


Do you want to hurt yourself? Nobody can stop you. You can even kill yourself. Just remember, it's you who are doing it to yourself.

God wanted children. He knew they were going to mess up, and He would have to punish them for it. So He made the only way out for them that is possible to make. Some of them stopped messing up, and are going to miss the punishment - except for a moment in this life. Keep it up. Mess up really good so you get the punishment forever. Or stop messing up and accept Jesus salvation, thereby accepting God as your Parent, and be saved.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
July 15, 2017, 06:42:52 AM

The problem is, that god can do something about it, he can do anything, can't he? If I know that my house will get burned tomorrow and I can prevent it then I will just prevent it, it makes no sense to not do anything about it knowing it's going to happen and then get angry, why would I be angry? It makes no sense as I said. God makes no sense.

If I knew my kids will mess up their lives and I can do something to help them then I will just do something to help them, considering god can do anything then again makes no sense.

As for why God does not prevent suffering we must first understand the purpose of Creation.
  
The purpose of the Creation
http://www.azamra.org/Heal/Resources/Torahview.htm
Quote from: The Ramchal
To understand the meaning and purpose of suffering, we must first go back to the very purpose of the Creation and the meaning of our life in this world.

God's purpose in creation was to bestow of His good to another. Since God desired to bestow good, a partial good would not be sufficient. The good that He bestows would have to be the ultimate good that His handiwork could accept. True good exists only in God. His wisdom therefore decreed that the nature of this true benefaction be His giving created things the opportunity to attach themselves to Him to the greatest degree possible for them.

God's wisdom, however, decreed that for such good to be perfect, the one enjoying it must be its master. He must be one who has earned it for himself, and not one associated with it accidentally and without reason.

God therefore arranged and decreed the creation of concepts of both perfection and deficiency, as well as a creature with equal access to both namely, Man. This creature would then be given the means to earn perfection and avoid deficiency.

Man must earn this perfection, however, through his own free will and desire. If he were compelled to choose perfection, then he would not actually be its master, and God's purpose would not be fulfilled. It was therefore necessary that man be created with free will.

Man's inclinations are therefore balanced between good and evil, and he is not compelled toward either of them. He has the power of choice, and is able to choose either side, knowingly and willingly, as well as to possess whichever one he wishes. Man was therefore created with both a Good Urge and an Evil Urge. He has the power to incline himself in whichever direction he desires.

Perhaps God helps us much more than is commonly realized. Delinquent children often fail to appreciate the efforts of their concerned parents behind the scenes until much later in life. If one looks at the world of 1500 BC it was a dark place full of mysticism and brutality. We thought trees were magical, rocks harbored evil spirits, and volcanoes demanded living sacrifices.

A smarter species might have come to understand God without needing to be hit over the head by his reality. Miracles in the Bible and the need for the simplest basic behavior to be written out for us on a slab of stone tells us that humans needed a great deal of outside help.

Perhaps the entire nation of Israel was created to be just the kind of help you think is missing. When Israel chose to nearly destroy itself in futile rebellions against Rome instead of spreading the message of God to a declining empire desperate for spiritual truth perhaps Christianity was even more help for a slow species not really able to figure things out without a few nudges in the right direction.

I'm not talking about suffering. I'm talking about how he made adam and eve knowing they will sin or disobey him and then he punishes them for it. It was already built in by him therefore it makes no sense that he would punish them if he made them to do it. Again nonsensical.
hero member
Activity: 636
Merit: 505
July 15, 2017, 12:48:50 AM
The Phoenix Journals are written instructions explaining how mankind may earn the perfection of GOD through his own free will.

During Jesus' mortal experience he directed his Apostles to establish ecclesias, not churches, among the Israelite people (israel: a people chosen by God and this does not mean even Judean nor Palestinian. It is a description, not the name of a state.) He commissioned them to preach the good news of the Reign (influence) of Christ (ideal type of humanity through right actions, thoughts and deeds). That does not say Jesus or Yeahoo--it says: preach the good news of the influence of the teacher giving forth the ideal type of instructions to humanity! Neither does it say to go forth and give your opinion as to what you desire to believe but project that which was given forth by the Christed and (messiah) messenger. ANY TRUE PROPHET OF GOD--knows this and would not sway the meaning nor mistranslate the words chosen for the "modern" translations of truth--GOD DOES NOT MAKE ERRORS IN PROJECTIONS OF DIRECT PROPHETIC DIALOGUE. ESPECIALLY WHEN GIVING FORTH "ORIGINAL" PROJECTIONS AND INSTRUCTIONS--A GOOD CLUE AS TO WHERE "YOUR" FAVORITE PREACHER OR PROPHET MIGHT BE CATEGORIZED.

Source: http://phoenixsourcedistributors.com/html/j026/
full member
Activity: 290
Merit: 100
July 14, 2017, 10:51:40 PM
Life is balance and I think religion and health are aligned, this is because religion is from God and surely knows the best human needs.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
July 14, 2017, 08:06:09 PM

The problem is, that god can do something about it, he can do anything, can't he? If I know that my house will get burned tomorrow and I can prevent it then I will just prevent it, it makes no sense to not do anything about it knowing it's going to happen and then get angry, why would I be angry? It makes no sense as I said. God makes no sense.

If I knew my kids will mess up their lives and I can do something to help them then I will just do something to help them, considering god can do anything then again makes no sense.

As for why God does not prevent suffering we must first understand the purpose of Creation.
  
The purpose of the Creation
http://www.azamra.org/Heal/Resources/Torahview.htm
Quote from: The Ramchal
To understand the meaning and purpose of suffering, we must first go back to the very purpose of the Creation and the meaning of our life in this world.

God's purpose in creation was to bestow of His good to another. Since God desired to bestow good, a partial good would not be sufficient. The good that He bestows would have to be the ultimate good that His handiwork could accept. True good exists only in God. His wisdom therefore decreed that the nature of this true benefaction be His giving created things the opportunity to attach themselves to Him to the greatest degree possible for them.

God's wisdom, however, decreed that for such good to be perfect, the one enjoying it must be its master. He must be one who has earned it for himself, and not one associated with it accidentally and without reason.

God therefore arranged and decreed the creation of concepts of both perfection and deficiency, as well as a creature with equal access to both namely, Man. This creature would then be given the means to earn perfection and avoid deficiency.

Man must earn this perfection, however, through his own free will and desire. If he were compelled to choose perfection, then he would not actually be its master, and God's purpose would not be fulfilled. It was therefore necessary that man be created with free will.

Man's inclinations are therefore balanced between good and evil, and he is not compelled toward either of them. He has the power of choice, and is able to choose either side, knowingly and willingly, as well as to possess whichever one he wishes. Man was therefore created with both a Good Urge and an Evil Urge. He has the power to incline himself in whichever direction he desires.

Perhaps God helps us much more than is commonly realized. Delinquent children often fail to appreciate the efforts of their concerned parents behind the scenes until much later in life. If one looks at the world of 1500 BC it was a dark place full of mysticism and brutality. We thought trees were magical, rocks harbored evil spirits, and volcanoes demanded living sacrifices.

A smarter species might have come to understand God without needing to be hit over the head by his reality. Miracles in the Bible and the need for the simplest basic behavior to be written out for us on a slab of stone tells us that humans needed a great deal of outside help.

Perhaps the entire nation of Israel was created to be just the kind of help you think is missing. When Israel chose to nearly destroy itself in futile rebellions against Rome instead of spreading the message of God to a declining empire desperate for spiritual truth perhaps Christianity was even more help for a slow species not really able to figure things out without a few nudges in the right direction.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
July 14, 2017, 07:30:52 PM
no one can explain a truth about secret order by having a god or not exist. theory also heard on same way but no one told me a no one god or have one god, because no one can see exactly her/his brain .see is to believe selfless but i can learn god exist and arrive and giving morelife on this world
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