Topic: Here Is One Reason Why Legendary Members Get So Many Merits - page 2. (Read 1825 times)

Here is a lucky 7 merits not be because I agree with you but I do think you believe what you say.

I can honestly tell you I should have received 2000 or maybe 3000 airdropped merits not 1000.

But pre merit world 🌍 was way different then now.

I do thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of posts.

I posted hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of how to videos.

I also give lots of merits newbies jr members members

and I deliberately post in poor grammatical style as I never under stood james joyce’s style of writing.

along with not appreciating andy warhols campbell soup artwork.

in my old age of 65 i now think joyce and warhol rock 🪨

and your repost to this thread got you 3 more points

This is a secret that you have revealed. The more you are helpful to people, and resolve people's queries you will automatically get merits.
One thing I disagree with is that Legendaries are getting merits by helping in these threads, You can be helpful on any board and you will get the same results.
If I tell you about  myself, I have been very helpful and kind to my local community and people will reward you with merits if they find your posts useful.

I had to look up "eristic"... hahahaha

It is a word.

I am not going to say my real life more than I already disclose from time to time through my posts.... and yes, I have more experience in regards to presenting ideas rather than my technical skills which are quite a bit weaker.. though sometimes I will present math ideas.. which might be more like statistics and accounting ideas rather than deeper kinds of math.


I don't know.  It seems as if no member is really precluded from making suggestions in the event that there might be some practical and reasonable way forward, and maybe there is a bit of a threshold concern regarding how much would the proposed change likely to improve any matter and could theymos just wait until the next time that he tweaks the merit system to make such changes (if he is going to do it).  

There were quite a few suggestions in the form of complaining regarding the implementation of the merit system in early 2018, so during that first year, theymos made several tweaks and regularly added merit source members to advance from his initial assignment of around 35 merit source members thereafter expand the number of merit source members to reach around 130 within about the first year while stating his expectations that he would continue to review the merit system on about a yearly basis, and he made a few tweaks to it in order to remove the merit source members who were not spending their smerits to both add replacement merit source members and to increase the number of smerits that the then assigned merit source members were able to spend during each of the 30--day periods that their source merit allotment refreshes.

I am pretty sure that even now there are ways that the merit system could be tweaked and some rotation of merit source members, but I get the sense that theymos does not want to make those kinds of global shufflings too frequently because there can become some feelings of disruptions when they are made (and sometimes drama too), and the tweaks that he has been making have seemed to have been fairly non-interventionalist through the years.. so in that regard, he surely has some data that is easier for him to see (and perhaps some of the moderators also get exposure to some of the complaints and reports of abuse of the merit system data), and a lot of members here seem to have gotten used to the various aspects of the merit system.  Perhaps there might be some justification for theymos to juggle again on a regular basis.. but my informal records show that he has been pretty infrequent with anything major to the extent that his initial implementation on 1/24/18 and supplemental adjustments on 9/6/18, 1/14/19 and 7/5/22 may well have been the more substantial changes to the smerit system, but still overall those changes have been pretty infrequent in their occurrence and maybe having a bit of an increasing time frame between their being made.. whether or not the increased time between changes may or may not be sustainable.. depending on how much interventionalism might seem to have potential value... .. or maybe he just has a tentative idea at a time that he might make changes in the future, such as 6 months from now or some other seemingly random date that he does not want to telegraph in advance.

We likely realize that there can be some advantages in regards to NOT making too many changes too frequently, even if there might be some ongoing existing unfairnesses contained within the currently existing system.. including that maybe  members get kinds of used to the system, and the shocks of any jugglings / shuffling of the members or the quantity of their smerits will be easier to adapt to in the event that it is NOT being juggled/shuffled too frequently.


That's getting further from the topic.  Most of the BSV discussion seems to be contained in certain threads, but of course members here might have varying opinions, and it seems to me that theymos is inclined to error on the side of allowing for areas to discuss that shitcoin or any other shitcoin, and sure sometimes shitcoins discussions will get into bitcoin threads, and I am not sure whether any of us will really agree about which shitcoin is less shitty (or which one is more shitty) (or which one is more of a threat to/attack on bitcoin), so one of the compromises does seem to be having areas in which various shitcoin topics can be discussed, and of course, there could be (and seem to be) some threads  that specifically have allowances to talk about shitcoin's relations to bitcoin or vice versa, so in that regard, there might just be disagreement sometimes about the extent to which some deviation from any stated topic might be allowable within a thread.. but any of those topics seem to be allowable so long as they are encapsulated by the title of the thread.


Members are allowed to submit there own application, and I am sure there are probably hundreds of members that would be able to fall into place and carry out the merit source duties (once they are assigned),...and I have a quite a bit of sympathy for the idea of either rotating merit source members and/or adding more merit source members to bring up the number of merit source members.  However, I can also appreciate that either adding merit source members or rotating merit source members does have a likelihood of causing a lot of work for theymos - especially during the initial adjustment periods. So there is likely a bit of a dilemma between keeping the merit source members the same, increasing/rotating the merit source members, creating a merit source Czar (or assigning one of the mods to help with carrying out such duties) which has its own potential challenges.


Yes... some people/members wear those.. and there are a variety of ways that members/people will show their support or even exercise their support in regards to various levels of passion that they might have for any particular cause or how they want to spend their time. .or if they have time to dedicate for one cause or another..   I don't necessarily want to defend why I take or don't take any particular action, especially if we are not in a thread that is on that topic.... and you likely realize we are already deviating quite much from this thread's topic, and we may well wear out our welcome at a certain point.... .


Seems to me that people/members have varying approaches and perspectives in regards to what they perceive to be possible "problems" and how much time they have or want (or is the phrase ready, willing and able?) to spend on various problems that the might see in the world including their own taking care of their daily living issues.. depending on where they are at in life in terms of what kinds of obligations that they might already have.. or maybe their various fun versus work balances, too?


I only brought it up because you brought it up... I choose to believe that you are a cat.  So there you have it.  


There are always various battles going on in the world, even during periods in which we might also believe there is calm and stability. Of course, getting involved in bitcoin would not necessarily take care of all of the problems, but we have an area in which we can talk about various problems from a forum perspective, and we might have other ways in which we are acting in our respective real world matters too.. and some of that might involve chaos and challenges and other interactions might involve non-conflict, and I would not even say that any one approach would be preferable, but sometimes any of can get ourselves into fairly prolonged battles that might relate to our relationships, or our financials (abilities to make a living), ways that we wish the world to be, various aspects of our physical security and sense of belonging and other matters that we might believe to be in front of us - including where we might perceive ourselves to be in terms of satisfying ourselves on the Maslow's Hierarchy of needs pyramid.  I have to attempt to figure out where I might perceive myself to be in terms of addressing what I might believe to be pressing in my life.  It is not necessarily a static situation including that if any of us might feel that we are in a comfortable place in our home, but then we find out that a bad person has moved in next door, and then we might become more worried about how to deal with such a change that happened in our lives, and we did not foresee the change coming... but some times there may be changes in our lives that affect how we spend our mental and/or physical time and change our priorities until we might feel that we have sufficiently/adequately addressed the new development matter(s).

Jay  
Are you a magistrate in real life? Cus seriously, you're a die-hard eristic or -- say -- a logical comrade ☺️ I really like that part of you JAY.
I'd love the members in circulation of merits in this forum to be kept, just as they are. They're doing thier jobs and if we can agree, it's based on the forums criterion that they all were chosen. It is imperative that if we'd tackle problems from the outside -- which seems to be giving much weariness and setbacks -- then solving and inward problem isn't a hard knot to untie.

Right now I'm thinking -- thinking of how we could overcome this Craig of a guy and his Entourage (if he has one). I understand we should make appropriate conclusions on these immediate complaint but, the best immediate advancement should be : adding a handful of merit-sources but that's not gonna cut it cus I'm not even seeing much peeps that fits for now -- except for a few that I know personally -- which might not be an exact figure in THEYMOS heart to fix up i.e if he craves for the idea in the first place -- that's the whole point in here .

A little diverging : won't you wear the current avatar that has escalated this days for the cleansing of FAKEtoshi's plague?
That's exactly the point I was trying to make earlier - that, that's prolly one of the ways we could save our ass out here. We wouldn't be debating whether or not to solve a fringe problem - sort of merit sending - when the whole system has been overtaken by these imposters? Or are we? You see the problem now?.. I'm just waiting for my rank up tonight so I'll wear the avatar ASAP.

About my gender, look JAY, believe what you want  . I don't have to convince you for that cus I'm not gonna be paid to do so. Let's keep it at whatever you choose cus it's not important and that shouldn't be a problem.

I'd even advise that Theymos does less to the previous appeal, if there was any. Lets focus on the cleansing for now until everywhere is calm and the dove can perch on its twig. I'm still gonna come back to this if JAY has something else to propose.

Cheers
Sandra 👩‍🦱

It is understandable that you might not have enough of a merit reserve to merit all of the posts that you would like, and I think that lot of the regular and active posters in this forum recognize that there are a lot of ways that members can either appreciate another member and/or acknowledge his/her points without using the forums merit sending function... responding to the post is one of the ways.. for sure..


You may be taking my framing a bit more personal than necessary, even if you are acknowledging that the information that you are working with may well be a bit less than the information that I have in my head by going through the experiences.  At the same time I am not trying to dominate the conversation merely because I was involved in a lot of earlier conversations or even knew that a lot of similar arguments had been being raised earlier on.. I would not even claim that my memory is correct or even my opinion is necessarily correct on those topics.. I may well be quite rusty, and it is possible that you could be more polished on the topic than I am acknowledging to be the case.

I am trying to suggest that the topic had been so beaten up already, so it may well be a better idea to look into those matters, but you are free to approach the topic however, you like while maybe appreciating that you had been getting some push back from me and even some hostility from me because I had been reading some of your comments as having already been beaten to death....

At the same time, I am just one person, so even if I perceive that several of your arguments had been beaten to death, it does not preclude you from raising them or even attempting to push them to new territories (if possible?/feasible?).


Even if you might have considered my tone to have been a bit hostile, I am not going to proclaim that my arguments were complete or sound, and in some regards, there can be some value in attempting to either acknowledge or address some of the points that I made... otherwise, or maybe acknowledge if there might be some truth to them or some real obstacles in attempting to make some of your proposals actionable.. like o.k.. if we first of all trying to figure out if some of the parts that you explained were a problem, and then if we get over that hurdle, then what actions (or rule change proposals or whatever) could be made and would those actions even be very feasible or likely to lead to success.. .. do we want success or change or not?  Or we are just discussing some problems that we perceive to exist, but we don't have any proposals regarding how they might be addressed and even if they cannot be fixed, maybe they could be made less of a problem?  Is that possible?


I am not "misinterpreting" on purpose, if that is what I am doing.  There might be some aspects that I do not understand, and I provide some observations that I believe to be materially important, and it could be that we measure what is relevant in different ways.  You have rights to your views on the various points, and I have rights to disagree, and I am not trying to stop you from disagreeing or expressing your points even if I might use strong language.. for example, if I assert:  "that's bullshit", then I might be proclaiming that in a vague but strong way that either I do not agree with your presented representation of the facts, or I don't agree with your logic or I don't agree with the conclusions that you have reached based on the facts and logic.  Hopefully, I would have explained enough so that you would understand why I stated my disagreement, but it is not always the case that any of us are going to be clear and sometimes ideas might get lost in translation. .and there may be needs for repetition in order for the points to get across and to make sure that we are at least understanding each other.


It's your choice about whether to continue to engage or to try to overcome any points that I made or to state why some of my points are either wrong or not relevant or maybe that I gave too much or too little weight to certain points.


Do we really know gender on the interwebs (besides that you have a female name?)?  From my point of view, unless you make it an issue, I cannot even determine if you are a cat.

Members are going to vary in the ways that they present themselves, and sure in the technical areas of the web (and likely even bitcoin/crypto) circles it is likely that there are more men than there are women.. but still we are not really going to know, and if you say that certain ways that I am presenting information is different than your ways of thinking about matters, and some of that might be gender/culture or whatever, then sure, there might be some truth to those kinds of assertions, but then wouldn't it be up to you to point that out, and point out some kind of specific argument that I am making or some point that I made that needs to be considered from another perspective, and you might not need to completely lay out the argument in order to at least point out that there are deficiencies with some way that I have framed my answer or my assessment of the situation being discussed.

When you mention gender, is there anything specifically that you are referring to?  If you are saying that merits are being shared amongst a kind of "boys club" but still those are vague accusations, and they might need to be outlined a bit better.  If you say that a lot of the members on the forum are making gender based jokes that make a hostile environment for women, and then they are sending merits to reenforce those kinds of values, then o.k.  What can be done about it?  If you make a suggestion of some kind of change, then it may or may not be acceptable, and yeah, maybe too much power is in theymos's hands in order to set forum policies but what can be done about that?  I think he tries to make it open, but he is likely a he, even though we cannot really be sure about that either, even if there is information out there about theymos too - not that it should really matter very much.. but to some people those kinds of identity politics do seem to matter more than to other people... Are we hostile here to identity politics?  Maybe? Maybe I am, but I am just one person.  


Sure there is always going to be some truth regarding people having self-interests, but I doubt that your implications in regards to my own self-bias are as strong as you are making them out to be... and hey, you can view the world however, you like in terms of which members here have abilities to attempt to appreciate a variety of circumstances/situations in better ways than others.. it is up to you to make those kinds of assessments and to engage or not based on if you believe that your point of view is getting a "fair" shake.


It should be expected that our views are going to differ depending on the topic., and we also might believe that we directionally agree on a topic, but then the more we get into details, then we may well end up diverging.. so then there may well be a choice about whether to continue to pursue the topic or to move onto other topics.  When push comes to shove, I doubt anyone wants to be told what to think, even if they might be willing to go along with some of the ideas up to a point.


Yes.. we might have diverged a bit much... but still there is some relation to the topic, especially if there is kind of an underlying theme that if there are concerns that Legendary members might be abusing their merit source positions, and that does seem to be more and more a topic about Legendary members as the merit sources, especially since it seems that not very many new merit source members have been appointed (selected) in recent times.


It would likely be a rare event that any of us are going to end up feeling bad in regards to various points that you raised, even if there may be some truth that some merit source members are taking short-cuts in regards to how they are spending their smerits, but no one is likely going to perceive themselves as a villain in their own story and likely each of us (even if we were to be a villain) may well likely be considering that we are doing the best that we can under the circumstances that we are presented, so we are not even going to perceive ourselves as bias in any kind of bad way, even if you are pointing out evidence that shows ways that we may well be more bias than we believe ourselves to be.

Should all merit source members resign their posts and force theymos into picking new ones?  Rotate us out or cut our merit source supplies and give other members opportunities to partake in the source merit spending obligations and benefits?


The shitpost label has objective and subjective attributes.. so of course, there might be some posts that everyone (or nearly everyone) agrees to as shitposts, and others are more ambiguous, and even others might not be shitposts, but some members might still call them shitposts because they disagree with them.


New facts might cause an issue that we thought to be previously resolved to be reopened or in need of consideration, and it may well be the case that this system is currently broken, but not broken enough in order to take any steps to make it less broken.. or any steps to take to make it less broken might not necessarily be helpful to make it sufficiently less broken in order to make the change...not that we have gotten into any specifics of changes that should be made, even if we were to concede that aspects of the current system has broken aspects to it.

I don't have any Smerit left for JAY. I would merit him too cus I don't wanna make it look BIASED.

I'm happy for all the response I've got. Good or bad.
Especially when JAY assumed my points as NOT 'innovative', makes me wonder what anyone expects from an argumentative dialogue between an old-guru coach and a juvenile on Woods borough basketball pitch.
I know you'd love me to make more specificities or would rather wanna get grounded by your points over mine, but I'm afraid, the well has gone dry.
JAY,  
It saddens me that the more I try to make-out points Crystal clear to you, the more it seems to get deluged by some of your MIS-interpretations. That's not encouraging, coupled with the fact that you've acknowledged my points as "not innovative", secondly,that's UNRULY. I'm not gonna make any points -- furthermore-- regarding this topic.
Maybe, points from feminine gender ain't really complimented ??

Z-light has atleast, a glimpse of the whole theory. Now I understand why it is said that "people in thier shoes knows best where it hurts 'em " I respect everyone for having diverse perspectives of thinking. Infact, that's what makes everyone different.
We have digressed alot from the subject matter and it ain't supposed to be so. I wasn't planning to make these an argument so it's high time I drew it to a close on my side.

Malek, I wouldn't wanna make people behind those accounts feel bad so I'll prefer letting the sleeping dog lie. Let's maintain the peaceful pseudonymity.  What you Term as a "shitpost" doesn't have any difference with what any anyone knows as one, neither does it have any difference to what Jolly is tagging most peeps for.
I'm grateful for every contributions from everyone and for the fact that atlesast, JAY understands that I have no problem getting merits or ranking up either.

If this issue has been deliberated countless times -- over the years -- and has been resolved already, whatsoever, I think we draw this to a close EXCEPT ANYONE HAS A REASON NOT TO.

Cheers,
Sandra 👩‍🦱

Sure.   I would not expect the substance of your post to be merely about you especially since we are in a public thread - and several of the themes that you touched upon are not really new and/or innovative themes either.   Maybe for the sake of this thread, there may be some tendencies to attempt to talk about the ideas in regards to how they relate to Legendary members, since that's the topic of the thread.. and maybe another dynamic is that even if the earlier topics related to merit system might have not so much focused on Legendary members - but in the passage of the last 4.5 years (since the merit system went into effect), the relatively lack of turn-over in merit sources, and even the lack of greatly increasing the number of merit sources, the merit sources have largely become Legendary members.  Even though there is no exact list of merit sources (Coin-1's thread has always done a pretty decent job to infer who the merit sources are), I doubt that there there any merit sources who are not Legendary members at this point.


I was not expecting to even come close to addressing the whole story.. I was just giving a passing opinion, so yeah, I could ramble on the topic quite a while too if I wanted to pursue such a topic, and it is really not the kind of topic that I get too excited about (not that it is not an important topic to some people).. that's probably why my post ended up devolving into making bitcoin comparisons, which surely is the area I prefer to talk about.


We can agree to disagree.  I still like my example, and you seem to not like it.  Sure, it may well not be exhaustive, but what example is going to be exhaustive?


I don't necessarily buy the premise that "without rank, you are nothing."   But, we can see that so far you have been a good enough poster to earn more merits than your activity level, so by keeping a similar pace of earning merits (which does not really seem to have been any kind of major problem for you so far), you are not going to be negatively affected by the merit system.  I already made that point.

In regards to your concerns for other members who do not seem to be earning enough merits to keep up (and they might be being held back from ranking up because of the existence of the merit system, sure some members do not receive very many merits, and maybe they either bad posters or they might be in threads in which not very many members with smerits participate or maybe they are overlooked.

You were suggesting earlier that there might be some kind of an obligation for merit sources to get out to threads that they do not frequent and get to know the people more?  or what is the solution that you are suggesting?  I know that many times there have been suggestions that there should be more merit source members and even a turn over in merit source members, and in theory that sounds good.. but surely can be a lot of work for theymos or whoever he might have in charge of merit systems (like if he were to create a merit system Czar - and I doubt that he wants to do anything like that)


We seem to be making different points.  I was suggesting that ranking up in the forum is way easier than failing to stack up with bitcoin in terms of the linear rather than exponential.. in that you would likely be more prejudiced if you failed/refused to stack sats as compared to failing to post/participate in the forum which caused you to fail to rank up.

In regards to bitcoin, I do otherwise agree with you that even late comers to bitcoin can still profit stupendously by getting into bitcoin late, even if they might not be able to receive the same magnitude (and compounding effects) of the earliest of adopters.


I might be wrong, but personally, it seems to me that you are describing a problem that largely does not exist, at least when it comes to the ability to rank up for those who want to participate in the forum and who want to and are able to provide substance.   It seems to me that the forum has gone down the path of taking away automatic ranking up - which seems to have been meant to be a way to combat spammers rather than to punish regular members.. or to make it difficult for regular members to rank up as you seem to be suggesting that the merit system is unduly burdensome on some members. what the shy ones?  The good people lurkers?  Sure there are a lot of good people in the world, but you don't make rank in these parts without contributing and getting noticed... and yeah, sometimes it can take a while..   Even though my times were different, I recall my first year or two on the forum, and many times people (other members) ignore newbies.. even when "we" think we are making decent and good posts... It can take a while to get noticed (and appreciated).


I doubt that I am anywhere close to suggesting that the merit system is perfect.  Maybe you need to make some specific suggestions regarding how to fix it and if you think that theymos will go along with it or who else would you need to convince?  Sure if you get the members worked up about something, then some times theymos will make changes based on his perceptions of popular demand (or at least I imagine that he accounts for what members think to the extent that it does not interfere with the "freedom" values of the forum)


There is no objective merit sending requirements, which means that members can send merits for any reason or no reason at all.. and if you identify some kind of a corrupt purpose then there would be some burden to show .. which is not really easy to do.. Of course, merit sources are not able to "sell" their merits, so there is that additional requirement on merit source members... otherwise they do not necessarily have any obligation to seek out objectively good places to use up their smerits.. and also theymos seems to appreciate that sometimes it can be a whole hell of a lot of work to spend smerits on a regular basis... (yes first world problems).. so in that regard, he has even stated that he would prefer that merit source members error on the side of spending their smerits rather than not spending them prior to their 30 day expiration date...


You seem to be presumptuous if you are thinking that you know what is more "real" than either me or anyone else here.  Sure.. you have a perspective that might be different or better than some of the other members based on your different set of experiences.. but I doubt that your idea of "real" really adds up to what you are making it out to be.


Like I said, you are on time to make rank.  Your merits outpace your activity.  Are you suggesting short-cuts towards getting to legendary more quickly beyond the activity levels?  Activity level suggest around 2 years to get to Legendary. .in the fastest of scenarios based on activity.. are you suggesting changes to that?


I am not conceding that any of what you are describing is wrong or against the rules.  Members have come up with all kinds of ways (is it "creative" or corrupt?) to send out smerits, and maybe you are suggesting that to be a kind of "selling" that would be against the rules?    If you believe that a member is being corrupt or that there should be a new rule for merit source members, then you would need to convince theymos to add such a rule, it seems... or maybe you convince other members here, and we all complain until we get a rule change?

It seems that the merit system was mostly made to keep spammers/bots from ranking up, and if you think it is being used in corrupt ways, then spit it out.  What you are describing does not seem to be prevented, even though I understand that there can ber some self-aggrandizing aspects, and maybe there needs to be more rotation of merit sources but that is also a lot of work for theymos.. you going to get him to do it or to get his merit czar (if there were one) to do it?

I can again proclaim that I am not saying that the merit system is anywhere close to "perfect," but maybe you, Sandra, may well be seeking higher levels of perfection where it may well be difficult to achieve in the whole balancing of matters regarding the extent to which merit sources might be unfairly benefiting from the merit system or that there maybe practices that fail to sufficiently circulate smerits.. so that only the small circles receive smerits.. which seems to be part of your accusations about "getting real."


I never really understood that. .I thought that it was a kind of joke... but I hardly have any clue any of the specifics.
 

You seem to be implying a nefarious system... bad motives and colluders.. and even that we are just giving merits to each other without spreading the love (smerits) sufficiently.


What's your proposal?  Completely getting rid of it?  Rotating smerit sources out?  Adding more merit source members? Having fewer?   Of course, there is way more data to complain 4.5 years after the merit system has had opportunities to play out versus the complaints about it within the first year of its implementation.. We have also gotten used to it as compared to when it first launched.

Hey Pmalek, i don't think that is what Sandra is talking about, hey Sandra you can correct me if i got it wrong: What i think she is talking about is that she thinks those members she called their names, whom are mostly merit sources, are amongst the 'best merit givers' in her own opinion, and by 'taking it upon themselves' i think she put it that way because some of them have probably started merit give-away topics to help lower ranked members, Fillippone is the latest to start that kind of thread to help members here: share your best posts/threads with Fillippone to be merit assessed, and The Pharmacist has also asked member's to feel free to PM him for their post history to be reviewed. TL;DR she thinks those users she called are great merit sources.
That initiative is no longer running.
Sandra, many people don't think the merit system needs a change, because honestly where again do we go from here, it may not be perfect, nothing is, and it is a bad thing to try fixing what's not broken, and i think the merit system is far from being broken. But if you think it needs to change for good, you can propose your suggestion to Theymos in a new topic in meta, let's hear what you think.

And everyone can attain those ranks with time. You need both merits and activity to get there. The spamming and shit posting got so bad a few years ago, that the admins had to do something. Hence, the merit system was introduced.

If you believe that to be the case, please take advantage of the Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source thread. Someone with enough source merits can take a look at those posts and merit them if they feel they deserve some. The Pharmacist has also written more than once that people can PM him and ask him to check their post history and he will merit those posts that deserve more merits. There is also Ratimov's Help newbies and those who have a little left to the next rank initiative. 

Of course it's not perfect. Nothing is. But it's good. It has stopped shit posters to rank up just by posting meaningless posts and it has killed the black market for account sellers.   

I would really like to know who those are? Who are the legendary shit posters who get merited and who does the meriting? If for some reason you don't feel like discussing it in public, PM me a few names. I am curious if your assessment of a shit poster is the same as mine.

The thing is, there are no rules for meriting posts. There are only the rules you create and your subjective opinion about a post. Merit sources aren't allowed to sell their merits. That's it. That's where the rules stop. If I thought a post of yours was funny, I can merit it if I want to. Humor gets merited as well. Regarding the popularity and familiarity part, remember what I said previously about seeing the same group of people hanging out in the same boards. It becomes a habit seeing them there. You learn what they are all about and you understand what quality they can bring to the table. If you have a group of let's say 20 people with similar interests who write and discuss the same things and all of them are capable of participating in a quality discussion, merits start going back and forth. If you like being on the receiving and, you want to give other people that same feeling. That's natural and human wouldn't you agree? If someone does something nice to you, you feel like you need to reciprocate in some way. Maybe that's why you think of it as merits for popularity or familiarity. But you are wrong if you think it's some kind of close circle of friends working together and tapping each other on the shoulders. Do the things that the best forum users do and if you aren't appreciated or merited properly, then we can discuss what is going on. This is more of a general message, not directed towards you personally because I am not that familiar with your posting habits.

I really don't know how active you are. But I don't see you around the same boards or threads where I see many other people. If I don't see you there, others don't see you there either. But what I do see is that you have a decent merit to activity count. But even with 1000 merits to your name, you need the activity points. There is no ranking up without them. 

I am not following sorry. It's time for my nap, maybe that's got something to do with it. When you say they have taken it upon themselves, are you talking about them being merit sources who get to decide who gets merited and who doesn't? Merit sources get selected by theymos or they apply to become one. They are picked based on the admins' criteria and whether or not he believes they can be trusted to do the job properly and not abuse the system. Just like in all segments of life, you select the best when it comes to more responsible positions, right?   

@JayJuanGee,
Note: these isn't about me alone, I believe I'm speaking in favour of other low-ranking members.

I saw your feedback right from the same night you posted but, I'm having some drastic network misconduct lately. (Maybe due to climate change or something)
I am Sandra and I liked speaking for myself; but after sometime, I could perceive that there are likely alot more of the same MIS-hap (my previous point) in ALMOST everyone's (low-ranked members) angle.

These whole story ain't really COMPATIBLE to the point you made above JAY -- about how early HODLers had a good chance of buying btc, bla bla bla.......... Buying or HODLing BTC doesn't seems to be a good example to the merit system; bitcoin is an investment that propagates cash capital overtime and doesn't have any FORMAL RANKING (people are interested in making money &/ owning an asset at the end of the day SO NOBODY CARES IF THEY'RE LATE OR NOT in as much as there are still many more coin to HODL). Bitcoin forum is just a discussion forum that doesn't pay anyone directly.it has legal/formal ranks that anyone should attain if they'd really wanna join a signature to make few bucks for themselves. We  have a couple of good posters that are lacking merits to rank up and WITHOUT THE RANKS, YOU ARE NOTHING!

Why is bitcoin HODLing not compatible -- Incase you couldn't decipher my extended appraisal -- to bitcointalk forum? It is because in HODLing, ranks are unnecessary and all you need to do is gather up funds to stackup like others do.
BUT,
In bitcointalk forum, ranks are necessary not funds. To achieve these ranks,you need merit --this something that you cannot give to yourself-- Infact, WITHOUT the rank, it doesn't make requal-sense to get stuck in here then, to a point, you'll get tired. Very few people don't care about ranks. Majority does.

JAY, lemme make you understand that a couple of times, people have confessed that the merit system ain't PERFECT, alright? So you shouldn't preclude every single fact that makes it IMPERFECT which -- the same point I made above -- is one of the facts &/ factors of it imperfections.

Now, back to today's point. I didn't say that I was bothered about the airdropped merits or peeps that had 'em (please, don't misquote me). My main emphasis was on today's EVALUATION. Why are we still having some silly-head legendary shit-posters merited, even after the airdrop disaster (I call it so for those that don't fit it)? Isn't this the adversely the same reason it was created?

Look, lemme keep it real with you. Even if, I were a legendary, I'll still be against it. Let's call a spade by it's name. Haven't I seen a thousand times, in some thread that most users get merited for popularity or familiarity? You can't get that justified JAY. To the point that someone was doing a merit give-away? Is that still the actual reason why the system was created or does that make the merit system PERFECT?
I don't even care about any cycling club thing as the sceptical chymist has said there's nothing behind the foxpup stuff so I'm fine with that.

@Pmalek
I respect your appraisal but, I'm afraid, it's not to my intended point.
Is there a day I don't come active on the forum since my being active 3months straight? I make post everyday and as you can see,I'm not one of the shit posters- that's justifiable.

Malek, I'd love you to deep some thoughts into this whole insinuation. Then ask yourself why the chymist, fillipone, the Thick-skinned gang leader, Ddmr, JAY, Ratimov, vapourminer, BitcoingirlClub and the rest have taken upon themselves to put the system in it proper function? You'll understand my whole point clearly.

These isn't to disrespect anyone. Don't take anything I said personal. It's just my appraisal.
I hope the merit system changes for good.
Cheers,

Sandra 👩‍🦱

I don't know if she had some specific names in mind when she said that or what makes her think there are actual merit cycling clubs. I can't speak for others, so I can only talk about my own distribution. It's very simple. I send merits to people who write quality posts in the topics I am interested in. Wherever I read and post at that moment is where my source merits go. The thing is, if the same people keep showing up in the same threads, it's only logical they have a bigger chance to be on the receiving end than those that don't. 

If you want to get merited, show up. That's the first thing. Do we have to drag you out and force you to post so we can merit you?

Yes.  You are referring to data that you got off of DdmrDdmr's merit dashboard.. 

Maybe I had gone off topic a bit when I was responding to Sandra_hakeem when she seemed to be hitting on topics about the receipt of merits overall, and even her suggestions that there might be a bit of an insider's club going on, abuse of merits and members who do not seem to deserve their rank.

Of course, we cannot necessarily even describe the receipt of merits in terms of soley being a product of good and substantive contributions to the forum, because there remain subjective components in sending smerits and there are also members who likely receive more smerits because they are able to send more smerits. 

I guess that I was attempting to focus more on the dilemma and frustrations that some members seem to have in terms of ranking up, and in that regard, there seems to be a need to look at the merit system from where they are at rather than potentially getting worked-up because some members may have reached their merit status and even rank through other means.. and prior to the merit system.. and that was part of the motivation for my remark about the fact that if you are earning merits at the same pace of your activity level, then you are not really disadvantaged by the merit system in terms of making rank on the same kind of timeline as forum members who were here prior to the implementation of the merit system. 

Sure members who were here in the forum prior to the merit system did not have to earn merits in order to rank up, but to me that seems like a BIG so fucking what?  That's my less nice way of saying it, even if that might not have been amongst the points that Sandra_hakeem was touching upon.

In life, there are all kinds of areas in which at some point we are newer to that particular circle, and if we stick within the circle we become older (or veterans) or receive rank within the circle. 

There are similar kinds of concerns about people who want to get into bitcoin, and they might truthfully reveal that they just heard about bitcoin and at the same time proclaim that the whole bitcoin system is NOT fair because some people have 10s of bitcoins and others have hundreds and others have 1,000s of bitcoin, and they do not even have enough spare cash to buy a whole bitcoin.  But, they still have to start building from where they are at rather than getting worked up about their thoughts that some people who have bitcoin don't deserve their bitcoin.  Bitcoin is not going to give any shits if the bitcoin newbie does not start to act upon their having just had learned about bitcoin and if they decide to be resentful about their not having any bitcoins or the means to get very many bitcoins rather than trying to work from the position that they are at in terms of figuring out and strategizing regarding whether they might start to accumulate $100 per week in bitcoin or if they are ONLY able to put enough cash aside to accumulate (buy) $10 per week, and it may well make a difference 5-10 years down the road regarding if they took the matter seriously and started to act right now or if they just whined about the matter of the bitcoin accumulation levels being unfair and even questioning the initial bitcoin distributions and the methods of the earlier distributions.  It seems to me that there are a lot of advantages in starting early, but there are still ways to catch up, too.. because incumbents are not always working hard on keeping and/or advancing their position, but the newbie might take years and years to reach 10 bitcoins that the incumbents had bought for a few thousand dollars in 2015. 

Even if the exponentials differ from system to system, we might consider the forum ranking systems in similar ways, but maybe even easier than the exponentials that likely exist in bitcoin that should inspire earlier involvement in bitcoin because the damage to future potentials are likely to be greater than they are within linear systems (and the forum seems to be way the hell more linear than the bitcoin system is quite likely going to continue to be exponential).

Thank you for the graph.

The actual number of merits as a comparator from this demographic would be interesting: non-merit source Legendary to Legendary vs merit source Legendary to Legendary

You're right, but the more merit they get that may outweigh the activity points then they tend to be safer rank up than higher activity points than merit. I was one of the majority of users who when the merit system was introduced stuck at Hero rank, because I didn't have enough activity so I didn't get the 1000 merit airdop as one of the Legendary requirements.

You forgot to mention that you are actually a merit contributor who has a distribution history of 70% - 75% of the total merit you submitted (18K+ merit) on economy board, while you only have 9% - 14% distribution on the bitcoin board (3K+ merit). Then in Meta, you have send 1817 merit or 7.49% all the time but it will probably increase over time. I can find all that data on the merit dashboard.

One other fact, you have send 17,728 merit for the Legendary rank.

Of course there is variance in the posting qualities of members who have achieved varying ranks, including legendary members who had already reached their legendary rank prior to the implementation of the merit system (prior to January 24, 2018). 

Overall if your merit keeps up with your activity level then you will rank up at the same rate as the pre-merit system.  You cannot really rank up faster than your activity level advances - even if you earn more merits. 

Personally, I am more sympathetic to sending smerits when members write within bitcoin threads in a personalized and intelligent way and it seems that they are interested in bitcoin and backing up their points, and I am not so inclined to visit shitcoiny parts of the forum - although sometimes there is a bit of coincidence in terms of which areas of the forum that any of the more active members might visit.. and then some days there is not enough time to read posts or to appreciate the contributions of other members, and also I am less inclined to send merits in the meta sections.. but I would expect that members who have been around more would know more about things that are happening and/or how to write posts that make sense, as you mentioned Sandra.. it is helpful when the posts make sense, but then also sometimes the posts make sense but they still might be lacking in substance.. so personally, I try NOT to get too overly critical of other members if they seem to be making some kind of contribution and backing up their information and maybe even pointing out sources or other places in the forum that related information might have been posted...

Not that newer members cannot end up getting involved in meta matters, but sometimes they might need to figure out how much they are able to contribute.. I sometimes feel like I don't want to chime into threads that are based on personalities that I don't know and then sometimes it can take a long time to figure out where some members are coming from in terms of their motivations, and maybe folks will tend to send merits based on some sense of contribution or even if they got to know various members in other threads, in the event that paths are crossing in the same threads, too.

Do we still really have to talk about this ?💅🙀

Well, haven't said anything here previously... The point is:
 I overcame my worst fear! Not totally anyways but atleast I have -- to some point -- began to realize that some legends that's HODL Smerit or some merit-source ain't getting petty sentiments into the merit system as others do. Some are treacherously biased. They could just keep meriting famous,top merit-earners even if they posted some crap, funny isn't it?

Yeah, I understand that it's fine to have a meriting standard, everyone does. But when your habits isn't corresponding with the prioritized intensions of its Creation, is it UNETHICAL?  ( That's meant to be a rhetoric)
Alot of legendary members receive merits for the already-proven fact above, yeah but, sorry to say, sometimes it turns out a political affair - where only the FAMOUS ones are scouted - I have seen alot (don't wanna mention names) alot that can't make good sentence structures yet, vets merited for a post I barely understood.

Legendary members are legends and that can't be compromised so, what makes a legendary member SOMETIMES - take it if you want - to receive alot more merits is because they're Legends. Not because they post what most senior members don't know or they make Better conjugations than some full members.

I mean no disrespect, I'm being real here .
Sandra 👩‍🦱

Bump after a long time.

You don't start a new job in a brand-new industry and ask why you can't be the CEO or have the authorization and salary of the CEO. You start at the bottom, maybe as an intern, and you slowly work your way to the top as you learn the ins and outs and gain experience.

There are so many positive examples of members registering here, starting from scratch, and growing their accounts to the highest ranks. We have examples of members having merits fitting for a hero or a legendary, but the activity points of a member or sr. member. So the system works.

I am a newbie here, but I have already heard people of my rank talking about how unfair this merit system is. Honestly, I don`t understand, how someone could think that he would just come to the forum and immediately begin to receive merits. First you need time to learn something, at least to find out, which threads you are interested in and what you can say about some issues. Of course, LM and HM will receive more merits, because they know how the things are done, they have already put a lot of affort to become who they are. Low rank members are only making their first steps, and you can`t read a book if you don`t know alphabet first. Nobody would give merits for learning letters, but you need just keep trying your best, and if you really want to learn something, you will eventually aim your goal.   

You are right, i mean not all newbies drag legendaries down by making them look bad. Some newbies sees legendaries as their inspiration to motivate themselves, to do their best at making quality post, earn merits from it and to also reach high rank position.

Legendaries gives a lot of impact on the newbies, jr. member, member and other users out there that are influenced by them (legendaries). That is why i am thankful for those high ranks users that made giveaway merits thread to help the newbies like me (before) to earn merits.