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Topic: Hodler, you motherfucker. - page 7. (Read 20972 times)

Ispep

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The future of security tokens

Quote from: Congyang on March 02, 2019, 09:22:37 AM

the holder if the hold is a coin that has the potential like ethereum or bitcoin might be a good thing. but if the one held is a coin that does not have potential I think it will make a loss and it doesn't have to be done,

Hodling shitcoins with the hope of them rising is something that should not be done, though 1 in 10 of such coins may turn out to be very good in the future, but making the right pick is definitely the issue
But with that being said that's the reason why it's adviced to diversify, so you could hold both the ethereum, bitcoin and other promising coins as well as not so promising ones.
Hopefully in the future some or most of them could earn you a large amount of money

manishanand

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Yes, you are correct that hodling is not a good idea but trading is also not a good idea as the market being manipulated by whales can lead to losses as we don't when the market can go up or down but surely it is much better than hodling.

deisik

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Quote from: iv4n on March 02, 2019, 03:37:17 AM

Quote from: deisik on January 30, 2019, 02:53:49 PM

Quote from: DKREBEL86 on January 30, 2019, 02:11:38 PM

The more I read the comments from the hodlers, the more I am convinced that they are making it the wrong way

It is a little bit more complicated than that

When you read something like "I will hold for a couple of years and see", you should keep in mind that for the most part you are dealing with a sort of forced rationalization. Basically, the vast majority of the so-called holders are made into holders against their will by a sudden price crash. As the trading wisdom says, if you can’t take a small loss, sooner or later you will see the mother of all losses

And this is exactly what happened to these hapless holders, i.e. they were reluctant to take a small loss when there was still a chance to get off relatively cheap. And now all they can do is rationalize their actions by convincing themselves that they "will hold for a couple of years and see"

Wait Deisik, some of us hold for more than couple of years, some of us are in bitcoins much longer. My first bitcoin was at 170 dollars, do you think the bear market from last year touched me hardly? Even OP started from 13000 dollars, that price was in January, February last year? So a guy hold about a year, more or less, and you compare him with me?

I thought it was obvious that I referred to those who bought at prices significantly higher than the current. This is the premise which you should take into account before drawing any conclusions. In other words, if you bought at 170 dollars, you don't fall into this category, so you simply can't compare yourself with these hapless bagholders. Well, in fact, you can but this is not what I meant

As this is not my point here

LUCKMCFLY

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Quote from: iv4n on March 02, 2019, 03:37:17 AM

Quote from: deisik on January 30, 2019, 02:53:49 PM

Quote from: DKREBEL86 on January 30, 2019, 02:11:38 PM

The more I read the comments from the hodlers, the more I am convinced that they are making it the wrong way

It is a little bit more complicated than that

When you read something like "I will hold for a couple of years and see", you should keep in mind that for the most part you are dealing with a sort of forced rationalization. Basically, the vast majority of the so-called holders are made into holders against their will by a sudden price crash. As the trading wisdom says, if you can’t take a small loss, sooner or later you will see the mother of all losses

And this is exactly what happened to these hapless holders, i.e. they were reluctant to take a small loss when there was still a chance to get off relatively cheap. And now all they can do is rationalize their actions by convincing themselves that they "will hold for a couple of years and see"

Wait Deisik, some of us hold for more than couple of years, some of us are in bitcoins much longer. My first bitcoin was at 170 dollars, do you think the bear market from last year touched me hardly? Even OP started from 13000 dollars, that price was in January, February last year? So a guy hold about a year, more or less, and you compare him with me?
They don`t have other option than hold. It`s the best thing to do for people who bought in wrong time. Amount of bitcoins bought in wrong time should be putted on a side, add more money, wait for good moment to buy bitcoins for trading and start trading.

I very much agree with your opinion, in these moments the smartest thing is to maintain, to be a holder! Many have not realized that we are in the best phase of the market to buy and maintain, I am sure that whoever does this, will be a new next millionaire. If in my hands I had the opportunity to have a Bitcoin, I would keep it for years if necessary, the bitcoin will give a jump higher than $ 20k, $ 20k is just a roof.

Congyang

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the holder if the hold is a coin that has the potential like ethereum or bitcoin might be a good thing. but if the one held is a coin that does not have potential I think it will make a loss and it doesn't have to be done,

iv4n

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Quote from: deisik on January 30, 2019, 02:53:49 PM

Quote from: DKREBEL86 on January 30, 2019, 02:11:38 PM

The more I read the comments from the hodlers, the more I am convinced that they are making it the wrong way

It is a little bit more complicated than that

When you read something like "I will hold for a couple of years and see", you should keep in mind that for the most part you are dealing with a sort of forced rationalization. Basically, the vast majority of the so-called holders are made into holders against their will by a sudden price crash. As the trading wisdom says, if you can’t take a small loss, sooner or later you will see the mother of all losses

And this is exactly what happened to these hapless holders, i.e. they were reluctant to take a small loss when there was still a chance to get off relatively cheap. And now all they can do is rationalize their actions by convincing themselves that they "will hold for a couple of years and see"

Wait Deisik, some of us hold for more than couple of years, some of us are in bitcoins much longer. My first bitcoin was at 170 dollars, do you think the bear market from last year touched me hardly? Even OP started from 13000 dollars, that price was in January, February last year? So a guy hold about a year, more or less, and you compare him with me?
They don`t have other option than hold. It`s the best thing to do for people who bought in wrong time. Amount of bitcoins bought in wrong time should be putted on a side, add more money, wait for good moment to buy bitcoins for trading and start trading.

apityeh71

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Trader been making more money with less risk than holder, because trader is looking for the trend first, if they predict the trend bullish, they will buy some good coin and after target profit reach they will sell it. And in bearish trend, they also can make money by shorting Bitcoin in margin trading. But holder always get loss when bearish trend.

deisik

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Quote from: DKREBEL86 on January 30, 2019, 02:11:38 PM

The more I read the comments from the hodlers, the more I am convinced that they are making it the wrong way

It is a little bit more complicated than that

When you read something like "I will hold for a couple of years and see", you should keep in mind that for the most part you are dealing with a sort of forced rationalization. Basically, the vast majority of the so-called holders are made into holders against their will by a sudden price crash. As the trading wisdom says, if you can’t take a small loss, sooner or later you will see the mother of all losses

And this is exactly what happened to these hapless holders, i.e. they were reluctant to take a small loss when there was still a chance to get off relatively cheap. And now all they can do is rationalize their actions by convincing themselves that they "will hold for a couple of years and see"

DKREBEL86

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yanda.io

Quote from: deisik on January 30, 2019, 01:22:04 PM

Quote from: wuvdoll on January 30, 2019, 11:28:14 AM

In my opinion trading bitcoin is just a gambling because you may lose some price movements to cover if you plan for buying-back kind of strategy for your trading whereas holding assures peace of mind. This is the big benefit of long term holding. We can make big profits along with peace of mind if we opt for long term holding

You are the type of trader (investor) who OP calls motherfucker

Note that it is not me who is calling you so but I agree with him in the sense that you (I mean long-term holders like you) are basically cannon fodder for the market (read, traders). If you want to be like that, more power to you. And I don't really know what kind of "peace of mind" you are talking about here

Of course, if you are a multimillionaire (and closer to a billionaire than a simple millionaire at that) buying a couple bitcoins here and there at whatever price won't make you lose that peace of mind (though it still depends). But if you poured into Bitcoin all your lifetime savings (or the best part of them), there is no room for such idea

Thanks for this.

I think that there is a complete misconception of "holding" and I believe that what the hodlers are trying to achieve is making "savings" for a brighter (unknown) future. Like a religion. "I will hold for a couple of years and see"... see what??

Holding should refer to a position that aims to be closed when some conditions are met. The same conditions that a trader sets before putting her/his hands on the markets.

The more I read the comments from the hodlers, the more I am convinced that they are making it the wrong way.

deisik

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Quote from: wuvdoll on January 30, 2019, 11:28:14 AM

In my opinion trading bitcoin is just a gambling because you may lose some price movements to cover if you plan for buying-back kind of strategy for your trading whereas holding assures peace of mind. This is the big benefit of long term holding. We can make big profits along with peace of mind if we opt for long term holding

You are the type of trader (investor) who OP calls motherfucker

Note that it is not me who is calling you so but I agree with him in the sense that you (I mean long-term holders like you) are basically cannon fodder for the market (read, traders). If you want to be like that, more power to you. And I don't really know what kind of "peace of mind" you are talking about here

Of course, if you are a multimillionaire (and closer to a billionaire than a simple millionaire at that) buying a couple bitcoins here and there at whatever price won't make you lose that peace of mind (though it still depends). But if you poured into Bitcoin all your lifetime savings (or the best part of them), there is no room for such idea

GreatOrchid

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Quote from: detector on January 30, 2019, 11:40:58 AM

Well, I'm as investor prefer holding because as I know, bitcoin is volatile investment.
It means that if you have more bitcoin, you can move the market so I'm prefer to hold in long term and it's proven profitable !

Will continue hold until few years ahead

If you really want to "move bitcoin" than you need to hold a lot of bitcoins. Maybe atleast some 10% to 20% of the total circulated bitcoins so that than you can manipulate the price of bitcoins by creating huge buy/sell orders. I don't really think thay if you hold bitcoins in decimals than it would affect the price for bitcoins anyhow. But yet holding bitcoins can make you earn money as the demand is predicted much more higher in the future which will draw the price for bitcoins to a greater extend.

bitgolden

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I am not getting the point of OP on what reason he is hating the holders ? I mean holders are not influencing the negative markets in any means hence there will be no reasons to hate them. If there will be no long holders then bitcoin might have been trading less than $100 or $50 levels due to heavy selling pressures.

Quote from: detector on January 30, 2019, 11:40:58 AM

Will continue hold until few years ahead

It is your personal decisions but I foresee that you may miss out million dollar levels. Yes, I may sound like kidding but time will answer. Because when people speculated about $5k or $10k by 2012, no one was ready to believe that.

proTECH77

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Quote from: cryptotrader 101 on January 29, 2019, 10:52:56 PM

I HODL Bitcoin because is a great hedge against traditional assets and it appreciates over long periods of time

Categorically my investment on in digital currency is solely based on longterm hold because in year 2017 i hold some fractions of bitcoin when the market was still growing but in few months later i could not believe my own very eyes. The power of a HODLER is pretty mush higher than that of a trader even though the trader get daily gains but he/she also incur some looses. OP, my advise to you is; ensure you secure a little portion of bitcoin for the future, thanks!.

detector

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Well, I'm as investor prefer holding because as I know, bitcoin is volatile investment.
It means that if you have more bitcoin, you can move the market so I'm prefer to hold in long term and it's proven profitable !

Will continue hold until few years ahead

wuvdoll

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Quote from: 1Referee on January 30, 2019, 08:58:33 AM

It's better to lose virtual $$ value than actual coins.

This is the prime motto of long-term holders. OP is simply listing out prices from $13k but who knows that at those times bitcoin will be falling down further rather than expecting a reversal toward a new ATH around $25k. I mean to say trading is really a hard one and there will be no surety to make more bitcoins (or those virtual money). But holding assures me that I will be having plenty of chances to have $40k or $100k in coming months.

In my opinion trading bitcoin is just a gambling because you may lose some price movements to cover if you plan for buying-back kind of strategy for your trading whereas holding assures peace of mind. This is the big benefit of long term holding. We can make big profits along with peace of mind if we opt for long term holding.

deisik

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Quote from: 1Referee on January 30, 2019, 08:58:33 AM

Quote from: panjul07 on January 30, 2019, 12:49:59 AM

Indeed at the current market situation, trading is the only way to make profit although it is still hard to make it but the chance to get profit is still better than HODLing.

For most people trading means losing their coins instead of just the virtual $$ value in case you firmly hold your coins

I don't quite understand what you mean by this

If I got you right, you mean that people buy or sell coins and end up with less coins than if they didn't trade at all, right? If so, it doesn't in the least mean anything. As Bitcoin is by far more volatile that the American dollar (not even speaking of other cryptocurrencies), in general it's not correct to gauge one's trading performance by considering their balance in bitcoins or altcoins

In this way, you may actually end up with less coins but if your balance grows in US dollars (let's admit this is exactly what most of us are looking for and dreaming of), it is not what losses stand for. And it is still more so in a downtrend market as at any moment you can buy more coins with your dollars than before (if you choose so, of course). As long as your balance is improving in dollars, it's okay

1Referee

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Quote from: panjul07 on January 30, 2019, 12:49:59 AM

Indeed at the current market situation, trading is the only way to make profit although it is still hard to make it but the chance to get profit is still better than HODLing.

For most people trading means losing their coins instead of just the virtual $$ value in case you firmly hold your coins. People make trading look like an easy way to make money, but that obviously isn't the case. I'm sure that most of them have never traded even a small portion of their portfolio.

If you look closely at the charts, market movers are frequently exploiting the thin books to wipe out positions on both sides of the book, so even if you are doing all the analysis beforehand, you are still subject to market movers trolling their way into profits. I wouldn't recommend anyone to trade right now, and if you do anyway, accept being the losses that come with it.

It's better to lose virtual $$ value than actual coins.

deisik

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Quote from: avikz on December 19, 2018, 05:30:20 AM

It's not just trading, it's about circulating the coins within the ecosystem. That can be achieved through trading as well as through merchant adoption. HODLers are simply hoarding the coins into their coffers which are not helping anyone. If we want to see growth of crypto, we should be spending instead of hoarding it. The more it circulates within the ecosystem, the more prominent it becomes to create a value for it.

So the correct word is not just "Trading", instead it should be "circulating!"

I don't think you can equal trading to circulating for the purposes mentioned

The correct reference frame would be real value versus speculative value. In this manner, trading doesn't add so much to real value (though it still looks better than dumb holding at first glance) as it adds to speculative value. So while I agree that "circulating" is the right term but I can't possibly agree with your inclusion of trading in it. Even from a purely technical point of view, trading doesn't involve much circulation as 99% of it takes place without traded coins leaving an exchange

qiman

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I made a mistake with my wife it is true. We made money in 2016 and 2017 doing crypto jobs, we never invested a penny from our own pocket. We lived on the blockchain and still living on the blockchain today, but yes all the coins we could have sold in January 2018, tanked thereafter so we lost 99.9% from the value of our portfolio. We now have to resort to also day trading to survive, just hodling does not work anymore. You also need to know a lot about the coins and tokens you do want to hold long term so that when there is big news, you need to sell at ALL TIME HIGHS, then on the retrace, purchase again. We learned from this mistake now and are slowly picking up the pieces. Technically, we are still in profit because we were able to live off of crypto for the last two and a half years but we have no savings and our working capital is small, but now my wife day trades, we are able to cream off the exchanges some eth daily, even though we are still in a prolonged bear market. We are frugal in our daily living so, for now, we will focus on trying to grow the trading capital and then invest in a few good projects also for long term growth, hodling that is some good coins.

panjul07

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HODLing is a long investment till the price go up higher than the initial purchase. A year is still not enough for HODL, especially if the price if getting down again and again. You may say the opposite think if the price boost significantly in a year like what happened during 2017. Indeed at the current market situation, trading is the only way to make profit although it is still hard to make it but the chance to get profit is still better than HODLing.
Good to see that you are still in profit so far, do what you like to do and let others do what want too. No need to talk something bad for those who do not do the same with you.

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