How long till the end of the USDollar? - page 6.

deisik

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Quote from: dank on November 23, 2013, 03:56:48 PM

That's because they kept using money as a system to live.

Now we have learned from our past, that we should simply give up the concept of money this time and society would be free, prosperous and efficient.

Actually, it will be far worse than it might have been even a century ago. We are now much more dependent on technology, medicine, communal support systems and you name what else than we were a hundred years ago... Cool

dank

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You cannot kill love

That's because they kept using money as a system to live.

Now we have learned from our past, that we should simply give up the concept of money this time and society would be free, prosperous and efficient.

deisik

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Quote from: dank on November 23, 2013, 03:41:46 PM

Quote from: chr0npiles on November 22, 2013, 08:28:23 PM

Yes. The collapse of the US dollar would inevitably lead to worldwide economic detestation, as it is the reserve currency. It certainly isn't happening within 8 years. If it does, I don't want to be on this planet because some seriously fucked up shit is probably going down, and it may very well have to do with a nuclear winter or natural disaster on a scale like we've never, ever seen before and wouldn't see again for millions upon millions of years.

Get real!

Don't let these guys scare you. Collapse of the dollar would bring a new wave of freedom to society.

In Weimar Germany prices doubled every three days in 1922-1923... Do you know what happened next? Is this the freedom you're looking for? Cool

"History is replete with examples of currency collapses and they typically follow very predictable patterns in which a nation unravels and social chaos, and many times, widespread violence and even genocide becomes part of the national landscape"

Taken from here

dank

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Quote from: crazycoin007 on November 22, 2013, 08:21:21 PM

It might be better to ask BTCBTCBTC $$$ which ends first. The collapse of US$ could be devastating and obviously domino effect of failures into other part of civilization. It would last as long as we live if not replaced by other (cryton)currency(s) as reserve currency.

Quote from: chr0npiles on November 22, 2013, 08:28:23 PM

Quote from: 0x00ff on November 22, 2013, 07:49:47 PM

Quote from: Martijnvdc on November 22, 2013, 02:57:05 AM

What happens to the euro when the US dollar collapses?

To me one thing is clear: once the USD collapses we're _all_ fu**ed up.

Yes. The collapse of the US dollar would inevitably lead to worldwide economic detestation, as it is the reserve currency. It certainly isn't happening within 8 years. If it does, I don't want to be on this planet because some seriously fucked up shit is probably going down, and it may very well have to do with a nuclear winter or natural disaster on a scale like we've never, ever seen before and wouldn't see again for millions upon millions of years.

Get real!

Don't let these guys scare you. Collapse of the dollar would bring a new wave of freedom to society.

deisik

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Quote from: prof7bit on November 23, 2013, 01:15:16 PM

There is absolutely no reason to believe the US-Dollar or the Euro (in their current form) have even the slightest chance of surviving the uncontrolled nuclear chain reaction of cryptocurrency adoption.

Who is telling you so? Maybe that guy on your avatar? Don't trust him, he's lying to you!!! Grin

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Quote from: Kiki112 on November 23, 2013, 09:15:12 AM

the end of the dollar is just a bitcoin fantasy

Bitcoin fantasies usually become reality, so that was actually a pro argument.

There is absolutely no reason to believe the US-Dollar or the Euro (in their current form) have even the slightest chance of surviving the uncontrolled nuclear chain reaction of cryptocurrency adoption.

deisik

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Quote from: NUFCrichard on November 22, 2013, 02:33:32 AM

Quote

there is nowhere else to deposit a few trillion dollars risk free

Risk free? That is why the rates are low but it is completely flawed thinking. Was money in Greece risk free? or Iceland? or Argentina?

Their debts weren't made in their national currencies (in the case of Greece they couldn't control the emission of euro), so they were at the mercy of their creditors. The US debt is dollar-denominated, thus the US can't default (or bring about USD collapse for that matter) unless they deliberately choose so... Why would they want to? Grin

Don't take too serious all those covert games in Congress Cool

Kiki112

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Quote from: chr0npiles on November 22, 2013, 08:28:23 PM

Quote from: 0x00ff on November 22, 2013, 07:49:47 PM

Quote from: Martijnvdc on November 22, 2013, 02:57:05 AM

What happens to the euro when the US dollar collapses?

To me one thing is clear: once the USD collapses we're _all_ fu**ed up.

Yes. The collapse of the US dollar would inevitably lead to worldwide economic detestation, as it is the reserve currency. It certainly isn't happening within 8 years. If it does, I don't want to be on this planet because some seriously fucked up shit is probably going down, and it may very well have to do with a nuclear winter or natural disaster on a scale like we've never, ever seen before and wouldn't see again for millions upon millions of years.

Get real!

the end of the dollar is just a bitcoin fantasy, it certainly isn't happening in our lifetime

altough it would be nice to see that Cheesy

at least for us (bitcoiners Cheesy

)
even though € would probably take over Undecided

NUFCrichard

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The euro would follow. New currencies based on commodities would be brought in, last for 30 years until someone decides to go fiat, then it starts again!

chr0npiles

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Quote from: 0x00ff on November 22, 2013, 07:49:47 PM

Quote from: Martijnvdc on November 22, 2013, 02:57:05 AM

What happens to the euro when the US dollar collapses?

To me one thing is clear: once the USD collapses we're _all_ fu**ed up.

Yes. The collapse of the US dollar would inevitably lead to worldwide economic detestation, as it is the reserve currency. It certainly isn't happening within 8 years. If it does, I don't want to be on this planet because some seriously fucked up shit is probably going down, and it may very well have to do with a nuclear winter or natural disaster on a scale like we've never, ever seen before and wouldn't see again for millions upon millions of years.

Get real!

crazycoin007

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It might be better to ask BTCBTCBTC $$$ which ends first. The collapse of US$ could be devastating and obviously domino effect of failures into other part of civilization. It would last as long as we live if not replaced by other (cryton)currency(s) as reserve currency.

0x00ff

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Quote from: Martijnvdc on November 22, 2013, 02:57:05 AM

What happens to the euro when the US dollar collapses?

To me one thing is clear: once the USD collapses we're _all_ fu**ed up. Another thing that is quite likely is that it will end up in war once the USD will collapse. Besides that, it will pull other thing (not just currencies) with it. I think, one of the reasons the US have never been stopping to invest into military although people in the US die because of hunger and (on-existent) health care is that they need to be prepared for the day that the US is actually part of the third-world. Spain is called third world now by the US. As is Italy. The US wil be the same that day the USD goes down.

Martijnvdc

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What happens to the euro when the US dollar collapses?

0x00ff

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I think there are two questions: USD to 'end' and USD to collapse are two diffeent things. Until it collapses it will takle some years, but it's at its end already.

NUFCrichard

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Quote

there is nowhere else to deposit a few trillion dollars risk free

Risk free? That is why the rates are low but it is completely flawed thinking. Was money in Greece risk free? or Iceland? or Argentina?
Ok they are smaller economies, but the big markets are just bigger Ponzis. As long as everyone keeps their money in, it is fine. When people start cashing out then it is over.

As for actually paying off debt, when has that happened? If you mean rolling it over, that is one thing, the idea that they will be paying it back is a joke.

Hawker

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Quote from: NUFCrichard on November 21, 2013, 04:57:17 AM

It's coming along nicely at the moment. The fed is being doveish but the bond yields are nearing 3% anyway.
and that's before they even start to taper QE. Not stop QE, taper it! When they taper and yields go to 3.5%+, then they will have to start up the printing presses again.

They can't afford to pay any real world valuation interest on their debt, so they need QE infinity. And more and more to keep rates low. Soon enough China will move away from USD (already happening), then boom, down goes the greenback!

Or Japan could explode first and everyone will see the similarity, then down goes the greenback!

Remember why interest rates are low. Its a market - governments sell bonds and the rate reflects the free market value of the debt. Right now, the US government pays a negative interest rate on 5 year bonds and just about breaks even on 10 year bonds. The reason its so cheap is that there is nowhere else to deposit a few trillion dollars risk free.

So the US, UK and Japanese governments will never have an issue with paying off debt at market rates as long as there is nowhere else to deposit large amounts of cash.

NUFCrichard

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It's coming along nicely at the moment. The fed is being doveish but the bond yields are nearing 3% anyway.
and that's before they even start to taper QE. Not stop QE, taper it! When they taper and yields go to 3.5%+, then they will have to start up the printing presses again.

They can't afford to pay any real world valuation interest on their debt, so they need QE infinity. And more and more to keep rates low. Soon enough China will move away from USD (already happening), then boom, down goes the greenback!

Or Japan could explode first and everyone will see the similarity, then down goes the greenback!

Vandroiy

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It's a political question. In principle, the USD can collapse in value but still remain in existence.

Maybe the big governments will file for bankruptcy, as Greece did. That may somewhat put a lid on inflation. Possibly they won't be able to manage it and start inflating crazily. Then, the question is how many people cope with it and how many start using more stable currencies or commodities.

I guess the end of the USD will be at least a good bit after it has lost most of its current value. Therefore, the exact date isn't all that important when determining how many dollars to hold on the long run.

beetcoin

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Quote from: Mike Christ on November 20, 2013, 03:59:20 PM

Quote from: beetcoin on November 20, 2013, 03:53:08 PM

1. that still doesn't lead anyone with knowledge to think that BTC will be the standard world currency. of course people are spending their BTC, but if the world economy is doing well.. people will have to invest. and BTC's inherent deflationary nature means that there'd be less people willing to invest; so how could people switch over to BTC as the standard currency?
2. how does this really prove anything? that's just a broad statement.

I have never implied BTC will be the standard world currency; for that matter, why on earth would anyone want this? All I'm pointing out is that there is nothing about bitcoin's deflationary nature that leads to negative effects; it's volatility is what is preventing it from becoming a currency, but a money that gradually makes its holders richer encourages saving; the second point is extremely important to understand, as you seem to be under the impression that the market must always be debt-based, i.e. we must always continue to spend, spend, spend in order to keep the economy flowing. This isn't true; if it turns out that people prefer to save their wealth than spend it, the economy adapts to this shift, instead of imploding or whatever other dangerous things Keynesians put forth.

your reply was to my initial statement, which was basically: "BTC can't be a world/standard currency." maybe i misunderstood, but i assumed you were countering my initial statement.

Mike Christ

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Quote from: beetcoin on November 20, 2013, 03:53:08 PM

1. that still doesn't lead anyone with knowledge to think that BTC will be the standard world currency. of course people are spending their BTC, but if the world economy is doing well.. people will have to invest. and BTC's inherent deflationary nature means that there'd be less people willing to invest; so how could people switch over to BTC as the standard currency?
2. how does this really prove anything? that's just a broad statement.

I have never implied BTC will be the standard world currency; for that matter, why on earth would anyone want this? All I'm pointing out is that there is nothing about bitcoin's deflationary nature that leads to negative effects; it's volatility is what is preventing it from becoming a currency, but a money that gradually makes its holders richer encourages saving; the second point is extremely important to understand, as you seem to be under the impression that the market must always be debt-based, i.e. we must always continue to spend, spend, spend in order to keep the economy flowing. This isn't true; if it turns out that people prefer to save their wealth than spend it, the economy adapts to this shift, instead of imploding or whatever other dangerous things Keynesians put forth.

Topic: How long till the end of the USDollar? - page 6. (Read 7739 times)