How succesful will AI projects be to win the house? - page 17.

Kakmakr

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Quote from: mak013 on March 25, 2023, 01:32:00 PM

Quote from: klidex on March 24, 2023, 10:40:49 AM

Quote from: mak013 on March 24, 2023, 03:06:41 AM

I think they will always fight each other. The player will try to create an AI for 100% winnings, and the casino will analyze such AI to prevent players from winning.
It will be possible to win from time to time - when the player's AI finds a new way to win, and the casino AI has not yet broken it.

That's not what I mean but the casino has a sophisticated system and is designed no one can beat it even though a very intelligent AI has been developed in any way but it will only be in vain.
So far I haven't found a tool that's really right to be able to beat the casino, except for hackers.
Casinos will only lose to hackers who can hack all the systems in the casino.

I don`t think that only hackers can win the casino. Today we see that AI is using everywhere and the casino can use machine learning to protect their winning and the gamblers can try to understand winning algo the same time the same way. And it is possible situation that in some moments gamblers can catch the casino. But some time later the casino change algo and they begin next round.

Yea, I think the casinos can also benefit from the AI, because it can use the AI to find "holes" in their security and also in the algorithms that they are using. It must be used preventative to stop exploits, not when they are already found and exploited.

I am very curious to see if AI are more clever than humans to spot these "exploits" and to see how it will react when it founds it. (It would be great if it would go into White hat hacker mode and report it to the casinos) Wink

mak013

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Quote from: klidex on March 24, 2023, 10:40:49 AM

Quote from: mak013 on March 24, 2023, 03:06:41 AM

I think they will always fight each other. The player will try to create an AI for 100% winnings, and the casino will analyze such AI to prevent players from winning.
It will be possible to win from time to time - when the player's AI finds a new way to win, and the casino AI has not yet broken it.

That's not what I mean but the casino has a sophisticated system and is designed no one can beat it even though a very intelligent AI has been developed in any way but it will only be in vain.
So far I haven't found a tool that's really right to be able to beat the casino, except for hackers.
Casinos will only lose to hackers who can hack all the systems in the casino.

I don`t think that only hackers can win the casino. Today we see that AI is using everywhere and the casino can use machine learning to protect their winning and the gamblers can try to understand winning algo the same time the same way. And it is possible situation that in some moments gamblers can catch the casino. But some time later the casino change algo and they begin next round.

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Quote from: BVeyron on March 24, 2023, 02:35:05 PM

Quote from: ethereumhunter on March 24, 2023, 12:57:18 PM

Quote from: Dunamisx on March 24, 2023, 11:07:47 AM

Quote from: Kakmakr on March 24, 2023, 02:55:39 AM

The saying... "The house always win" is so true for many other reasons than simply finding a way to beat the system. They have counter measures to react, when they see unnatural betting, so you will lose in the end.

We have to be realistic here and as a matter of fact, in gambling the house always win, this is the real fact, now that there's a nee development on using the AI against the system, how effective do you guys think it can go or last, remember some people sat down to program them before every other person shows interest on it, at the end of it all, you will still discover that AI works perfectly in favour of the house on a winning edge.

And even though people have started using AI to help them play gambling, casinos won't let people win easily. I'm sure casinos will also use AI technology to be still able to get big wins from losing gamblers. And in the end the casino still wins while the gamblers keep losing and losing their money. Only wise gamblers can survive losing a lot of money because they can think about enjoying gambling well. So we should not become greedy even if we use AI to help us win from the casino.

Yes, AI is actually more to do with backend development and marketing strategies, so for users it can bring just stability improvement. Also, it will probably automatically set withdrawal and bet limits depending on multiple parameters, and this also will be for casino profit.

But not everything has to be seen for the benefit of the casino, as a player you also have to look for things that Favor you, and it's not that you cheat, but if the casino Uses AI,why can't a player use it? And how do they realize that he is an AI player? Maybe because of the speed of the game and if that's the case it's easy, because you can adjust the AI (if there's the right AI) so that it has the speed of an ordinary human being, that's very difficult, and if the AI confuses a human person with AI? how would they do?

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Quote from: ethereumhunter on March 24, 2023, 12:57:18 PM

Quote from: Dunamisx on March 24, 2023, 11:07:47 AM

Quote from: Kakmakr on March 24, 2023, 02:55:39 AM

The saying... "The house always win" is so true for many other reasons than simply finding a way to beat the system. They have counter measures to react, when they see unnatural betting, so you will lose in the end.

We have to be realistic here and as a matter of fact, in gambling the house always win, this is the real fact, now that there's a nee development on using the AI against the system, how effective do you guys think it can go or last, remember some people sat down to program them before every other person shows interest on it, at the end of it all, you will still discover that AI works perfectly in favour of the house on a winning edge.

And even though people have started using AI to help them play gambling, casinos won't let people win easily. I'm sure casinos will also use AI technology to be still able to get big wins from losing gamblers. And in the end the casino still wins while the gamblers keep losing and losing their money. Only wise gamblers can survive losing a lot of money because they can think about enjoying gambling well. So we should not become greedy even if we use AI to help us win from the casino.

Yes, AI is actually more to do with backend development and marketing strategies, so for users it can bring just stability improvement. Also, it will probably automatically set withdrawal and bet limits depending on multiple parameters, and this also will be for casino profit.

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Quote from: Dunamisx on March 24, 2023, 11:07:47 AM

Quote from: Kakmakr on March 24, 2023, 02:55:39 AM

The saying... "The house always win" is so true for many other reasons than simply finding a way to beat the system. They have counter measures to react, when they see unnatural betting, so you will lose in the end.

We have to be realistic here and as a matter of fact, in gambling the house always win, this is the real fact, now that there's a nee development on using the AI against the system, how effective do you guys think it can go or last, remember some people sat down to program them before every other person shows interest on it, at the end of it all, you will still discover that AI works perfectly in favour of the house on a winning edge.

And even though people have started using AI to help them play gambling, casinos won't let people win easily. I'm sure casinos will also use AI technology to be still able to get big wins from losing gamblers. And in the end the casino still wins while the gamblers keep losing and losing their money. Only wise gamblers can survive losing a lot of money because they can think about enjoying gambling well. So we should not become greedy even if we use AI to help us win from the casino.

Dunamisx

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Quote from: Kakmakr on March 24, 2023, 02:55:39 AM

The saying... "The house always win" is so true for many other reasons than simply finding a way to beat the system. They have counter measures to react, when they see unnatural betting, so you will lose in the end.

We have to be realistic here and as a matter of fact, in gambling the house always win, this is the real fact, now that there's a nee development on using the AI against the system, how effective do you guys think it can go or last, remember some people sat down to program them before every other person shows interest on it, at the end of it all, you will still discover that AI works perfectly in favour of the house on a winning edge.

klidex

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Quote from: mak013 on March 24, 2023, 03:06:41 AM

Quote from: klidex on March 23, 2023, 02:01:32 PM

Quote from: mak013 on March 23, 2023, 08:05:17 AM

The AI is based on scripts, even if they are very difficult. I don`t think that it is possible to win the house in any situation, but the AI can help to increase the winning percent. May be if we`ll use correct money management we can get profit for some time, but for a long distance it is impossible. The bookies will ban such gamblers or decrease odds and bet limits. Anyway the casino willn`t give someone to win them.

Casino is a gambling business that is established to gain profit not loss, so the casino has all the smart systems to keep everything that makes the casino lose.
Like AI that has been designed to predict sports betting or something else, but casinos have smarter systems than AI created by someone.
Of course, casinos can never lose and don't want to be defeated in any way, because casinos are a profitable business, not a loss.

I think they will always fight each other. The player will try to create an AI for 100% winnings, and the casino will analyze such AI to prevent players from winning.
It will be possible to win from time to time - when the player's AI finds a new way to win, and the casino AI has not yet broken it.

That's not what I mean but the casino has a sophisticated system and is designed no one can beat it even though a very intelligent AI has been developed in any way but it will only be in vain.
So far I haven't found a tool that's really right to be able to beat the casino, except for hackers.
Casinos will only lose to hackers who can hack all the systems in the casino.

EarnOnVictor

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Quote from: khaled0111 on March 23, 2023, 07:10:07 PM

The AI bot prediction accuracy depends on the amount of data you give to it. For example, for a football match, the more it knows about the competing teams, the more accurate its prediction will be.
However, there is two other important factors you have to consider which make it hard to beat the house. The first one is the luck factor. The second one is how resourceful the bookies are. They certainly have more data than you so they can get better results and so they will adjust the odds on their favor.

By gambling, I believe the OP mainly means casino, not sportsbook, and it will be so difficult for AI to beat the house in this category. If it were to be with the sportsbooks, the games and predictions are all fair and could be witnessed by all, unlike casinos that have some internal manipulations you might not know. This will certainly confuse the AI as they want and no one should blame it on casino bettings that have some internal dealing to favour the house.

For sports betting to be precise, I believe it will work so well because it will know everything about the team and the players, and be able to give good judgement/predictions about them.

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Quote from: Kakmakr on March 24, 2023, 02:55:39 AM

The saying... "The house always win" is so true for many other reasons than simply finding a way to beat the system. They have counter measures to react, when they see unnatural betting, so you will lose in the end. Tongue

The house also doesn't want to go bankrupt, of course they will overcome any technology that makes it bankrupt, besides all the games are set up to win the house so I never want to beat the house, so I just play and have fun if I win it's my lucky day , but since I know the house will always win, so I now prefer betting on sports than playing in casinos except for small bets for fun Cheesy

mak013

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Quote from: klidex on March 23, 2023, 02:01:32 PM

Quote from: mak013 on March 23, 2023, 08:05:17 AM

The AI is based on scripts, even if they are very difficult. I don`t think that it is possible to win the house in any situation, but the AI can help to increase the winning percent. May be if we`ll use correct money management we can get profit for some time, but for a long distance it is impossible. The bookies will ban such gamblers or decrease odds and bet limits. Anyway the casino willn`t give someone to win them.

Casino is a gambling business that is established to gain profit not loss, so the casino has all the smart systems to keep everything that makes the casino lose.
Like AI that has been designed to predict sports betting or something else, but casinos have smarter systems than AI created by someone.
Of course, casinos can never lose and don't want to be defeated in any way, because casinos are a profitable business, not a loss.

I think they will always fight each other. The player will try to create an AI for 100% winnings, and the casino will analyze such AI to prevent players from winning.
It will be possible to win from time to time - when the player's AI finds a new way to win, and the casino AI has not yet broken it.

Kakmakr

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Quote from: khaled0111 on March 23, 2023, 07:10:07 PM

The AI bot prediction accuracy depends on the amount of data you give to it. For example, for a football match, the more it knows about the competing teams, the more accurate its prediction will be.
However, there is two other important factors you have to consider which make it hard to beat the house. The first one is the luck factor. The second one is how resourceful the bookies are. They certainly have more data than you so they can get better results and so they will adjust the odds on their favor.

Yes, even if you manage to use AI to predict the correct Sport bets, you will not be able to get away with it for a long time. The bookies are resourceful and the casino will restrict or handicap your account, once they flag you as a professional. Roll Eyes

The saying... "The house always win" is so true for many other reasons than simply finding a way to beat the system. They have counter measures to react, when they see unnatural betting, so you will lose in the end. Tongue

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The AI bot prediction accuracy depends on the amount of data you give to it. For example, for a football match, the more it knows about the competing teams, the more accurate its prediction will be.
However, there is two other important factors you have to consider which make it hard to beat the house. The first one is the luck factor. The second one is how resourceful the bookies are. They certainly have more data than you so they can get better results and so they will adjust the odds on their favor.

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Quote from: Oshosondy on March 12, 2023, 07:23:04 AM

In the long run, you can not win the house. The chance you can be lucky and win big to become rich will always be less than 1% while in long time, the house will always be the winner.

Just as it has been advised several times, gamble for just fun.

Even if you will use the most reliable AI projects, that won’t change the fact that in gambling, the house always take the winnings, and left the gamblers losing in the end. Besides, AI cannot guarantee someone to win in gambling, they only answer some fixed questions but cannot predict and give accurate answers especially in an uncertain gambling market. So AI is not reliable in the end, better to gamble using your own human mind than to expect help from AI.

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Quote from: klidex on March 23, 2023, 02:01:32 PM

Quote from: mak013 on March 23, 2023, 08:05:17 AM

The AI is based on scripts, even if they are very difficult. I don`t think that it is possible to win the house in any situation, but the AI can help to increase the winning percent. May be if we`ll use correct money management we can get profit for some time, but for a long distance it is impossible. The bookies will ban such gamblers or decrease odds and bet limits. Anyway the casino willn`t give someone to win them.

Casino is a gambling business that is established to gain profit not loss, so the casino has all the smart systems to keep everything that makes the casino lose.
Like AI that has been designed to predict sports betting or something else, but casinos have smarter systems than AI created by someone.
Of course, casinos can never lose and don't want to be defeated in any way, because casinos are a profitable business, not a loss.

^ I never heard yet a project of AI that can predict the matket ahead of time, mostly AI's are good in having conversations not on predicting in the future. But however, if there is a design on that kind of AI it could be 50% not accurate when it comes to the result. AI models is not a good tool in predicting in gambling but I donnot agree that casino is profitable business for the owner, it is also based on luck on their side.

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Quote from: Z390 on March 23, 2023, 04:17:24 AM

AI is artificial intelligence, made by men, this is not a god or something, gambling companies must be aware of AI existence and I am sure that they know exactly what to do to counter any AI theft or cheating in games, because if AI could make you win games it's cheating, and since this is created by man, adjustments can be made, there will be some limitation to what this AI can do for humans, right now the discussion about how AI will affect studies and teaching in schools is still on the ground and this can affect companies too, this isn't what we want for human race.

That is exactly what I believe also, I am sure gambling operators already have a mechanism in place that will check and detect the activities of bots in their casinos, and we have to note that we already have some projects who are kicking against AI usage since we already are aware that there differences between human activities and that of bots.

-I know there may be some advanced AI bots that may be hard to be detected, but that will not go unnoticed for long and their activities will be cut off sooner or later.

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Quote from: Flexystar on March 23, 2023, 02:07:43 PM

And do what?

Make the Casino go out of business and close down the casino so that we won’t have any Casinos to play on?
Have anyone understood or analysed any implications from such development?

All I can think right now are various questions which are not getting resolved but I’m having more questions one after another due ChatGPT stuff.

You pick anything these days from article writing to complex theories, from video processing to animations and what not GPT is there.

I only have one question to ask to community, whether this is worth it?

Now they are trying to compete the house edge as well, that’s literally complicated resolution which ain’t beneficial for the user experience in long run.

AI is for our times what Martingale was for early crypto years.

Back then people thought they discovered the perfect recipe to defeat the house through Martingale strategy plus automatic bets.

Now they follow the same logic by believing AIs are the magical formula to win safely on long term.

Well, let them think it's possible, until they see by their own eyes it's not possible at all...

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Quote from: slapper on March 23, 2023, 03:37:43 PM

.../Z390 /...:::
Oh my, artificial intelligence and gambling huh? This might cast some trouble! If AI can help you win games, well, that's just cheating! But wait, aren't humans the fathers of AI? It's like competing in a card game against your identical twin, anticipating every move and never being caught off guard!

In all seriousness, though, we have discussed AI's influence on education and learning and many other industries, but what about gambling? Will AI dealers and players become popular? Perhaps we could design an AI that exhibits a flawless "poker face" algorithm, concealing its thoughts. Or, even better, let's invent an AI that always reveals a "tell" to signal when we should fold!

Enough for joking haha. We must be careful with A. Why?. It's a slippery slope, and we don't want to create something beyond our control. But let's not forget the potential benefits of AI.

Who knows, maybe one day we'll have an entirely new species. But until that, there will be a lot of barriers need to be put down

I have separated the last sentence from your original post, since there were three response intentions, for me very sarcastic, but with sense in the subject, definitely that post was not made using artificial intelligence (?) how to know, the strange thing is that for you they were jokes.

The AI is viral, it's just that, there have been advances, but it has been developing for a long time and a lot of time, but falling into situations like what will happen with betting or casinos, is perhaps the deepest part to find a solution, (speaking in importance) perhaps it requires one.

If your probability of losing is 99% and you only have 1% left, nothing will save you from losing, and in the opposite case, if your probability of winning is 99.99% and you lose with 0.01%, nothing It will prevent it, so, odds:1 AI:0 .

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Quote from: Flexystar on March 23, 2023, 02:07:43 PM

I only have one question to ask to community, whether this is worth it?

It's worth to try for those that's really craving to win against the house. But these casinos have got almost unlimited budget to defeat those gamblers that will try to use ai to deal with the house. It may sound very easy but it's actually not.

Quote from: Flexystar on March 23, 2023, 02:07:43 PM

Now they are trying to compete the house edge as well, that’s literally complicated resolution which ain’t beneficial for the user experience in long run.

If proven that the next versions of these ai's are too good to easily win against the houses then many of these reputable casinos would go bankrupt. But I don't think it will come to that point, as early as now they might have a plan and have come up into something when they see players or sees a way to use ai and get more chances of winning.

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Quote from: aioc on March 23, 2023, 11:04:26 AM

Quote from: Peanutswar on March 23, 2023, 10:22:26 AM

Those given data by the AI is the most ideal use for statistics analysis for sports betting because they can now easily get the data from the sources and the objective of the player is check and verify if there's a higher potential of winnings and what are the possible safe bets to prevent losses too much. In terms of how winning all of the games I guess the AI cannot make it because they have a different program and the gambling casino has their own way of system configuration with it so the chances of AI can predict the win will now lessen.

That's true it's for statistics only to come out with probability, if you're a sports bettor the data that the AI will provide is a big help for your own analysis and bet, but we will never come to a point where we can ask AI for exact result and proceed to bet on it, it's gambling you can win or you can lose but I doubt it can give a good winning percentage.

But it's going to be a big concern for the house if a new AI will come that can accurately predict an outcome on sports betting, and what if a new AI will come out to lay out a strategy to bet the house in a game of luck like Dice, nothing is impossible but I don't want that to happen.

The concern is that the casinos have a better AI that the players can develop, that's the Trick , I don't see any other way, and that will be a competition, now the KYC will be harder to do Because if there are players who will leave Everything in the hands of the AI because they will take advantage of all this to beat the casino , So what I think is that the casino will increase the House advantage and Thus it will be more difficult to win the normal player Who does not know how to use an AI,this It is something that can cause many Problems,so you should try to handle it very carefully.

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Quote from: Z390 on March 23, 2023, 04:17:24 AM

AI is artificial intelligence, made by men, this is not a god or something, gambling companies must be aware of AI existence and I am sure that they know exactly what to do to counter any AI theft or cheat in games, because if AI could make you win games it's cheating, and since this is created by man, adjustments can be made, there will be some limitation to what this AI can do for humans, right now the discussion about how AI will affect studies and teaching in schools is still on the ground and this can affect companies too, this isn't what we want for human race.

Oh my, artificial intelligence and gambling huh? This might cast some trouble! If AI can help you win games, well, that's just cheating! But wait, aren't humans the fathers of AI? It's like competing in a card game against your identical twin, anticipating every move and never being caught off guard!

In all seriousness, though, we have discussed AI's influence on education and learning and many other industries, but what about gambling? Will AI dealers and players become popular? Perhaps we could design an AI that exhibits a flawless "poker face" algorithm, concealing its thoughts. Or, even better, let's invent an AI that always reveals a "tell" to signal when we should fold!

Enough for joking haha. We must be careful with A. Why?. It's a slippery slope, and we don't want to create something beyond our control. But let's not forget the potential benefits of AI. Who knows, maybe one day we'll have an entirely new species. But until that, there will be a lot of barriers need to be put down

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