I no longer work for Butterfly Labs (BFL) - page 5.

Luke-Jr

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1186

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: DrG on June 23, 2014, 04:21:25 AM

What I want to know is what happened at BFL between 3/31/13 and 6/30/13. It took over 3 months for BFL to go from "shipping" Luke's Single to shipping my Single, and my Single was one of the first 100 ordered. During that 3 month delay I lost the potential return of my 209BTC outlay. I want to know if BFL was actively mining at extended length with first Singles. Ultimately I was only able to mine a little over 17BTC with something I spent 209BTC. There's not making positive ROI and then there's having a company steal your money outright by using your hardware while blatantly telling lies "oh we can't get it to work". Angry

There have already been court documents to the Attorney General in which BFL openly admit to using customer devices on the EMC pool (which is owned by BFL and purchased from Josh in 2012).

So your question of:

Quote

I want to know if BFL was actively mining at extended length with first Singles.

is confirmed as yes, in these documents in which it states:

Quote

Butterfly Labs earns mining income from their burn testing of machines as well as service fees charged to Eclipse customers

in part 4 (page 3)

"Burn testing" does not imply "actively mining at extended length" IMO.
It implies a brief period of testing to ensure the device works and doesn't fail within a few hours.

Searing

copper member

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1464

Clueless!

Quote from: RoadStress on June 23, 2014, 06:45:08 AM

Quote from: bcp19 on June 23, 2014, 06:36:51 AM

Wow, you are clueless... no, wait... CLUELESS. Ask an EE about rollout of a new concept item sometime. Up until then, your ignorance just shows you deserve the tin-foil hat you wear.

I may be cluesless, but you are the one in a managing position that was frustrated by his or the others incompetence while you were swapping microscope components by hand. Also the continuous delays from BFL show how good are the people that run this scammy business. Of course there are some other reasons like mining with customers hardware or selling it to someone else, but the technical and the managing skills are clearly lacking in this company.

should probably not say this in the i have bcp19 on /ignore...and I never read the users on /ignore in that it really really p/o's the people in question (i can tell by the many many posts to the unseen either in my direction after some posts of mine)

But to add to the above ...to further ( I really thought this was not possible that I could hold BFL in even less esteem...then was already the case..the fact that somewhere in the management of BFL they decided to HIRE Bcp19 ...well .....if that don't put a cherry on the Sundae of BFL not knowing what the hell they are doing...nothing further will imho.

heh...(i await not looking at your reply with breathless anticipation...this /ignore game only works if you don't peek!

Searing

kano

legendary

Activity: 4592

Merit: 1851

Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: Luke-Jr on June 22, 2014, 11:31:03 PM

FWIW, while I don't have much insider knowledge in BFL day-to-day operations, I do know that as of right now, Nimbus doesn't have software working for any 28nm BFL hardware.
Only just recently, did we finish getting BFGMiner to work properly with the Monarch (despite the announcement for its support in 4.0, there were some bugs that came up as BFL tweaked the firmware to get to the full hashrate).
Nimbus currently relies on a proprietary fork of cgminer, so they can't even deploy that right now.
And while it's possible they could use software I'm not aware of, I was recently asked (with pay) to help adjust Nimbus's operation so it could handle the Monarch - which wouldn't make sense if they already had something working.
...

I was asked (with hardware and pay) and declined.

RoadStress

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1007

Quote from: bcp19 on June 23, 2014, 06:36:51 AM

Wow, you are clueless... no, wait... CLUELESS. Ask an EE about rollout of a new concept item sometime. Up until then, your ignorance just shows you deserve the tin-foil hat you wear.

I may be cluesless, but you are the one in a managing position that was frustrated by his or the others incompetence while you were swapping microscope components by hand. Also the continuous delays from BFL show how good are the people that run this scammy business. Of course there are some other reasons like mining with customers hardware or selling it to someone else, but the technical and the managing skills are clearly lacking in this company.

bcp19

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: RoadStress on June 22, 2014, 11:32:47 PM

Quote from: smoothie on June 22, 2014, 08:00:00 PM

BFL can't keep playing the "Oh well we made our best effort guess of when development would be done for our products."

If that is true then they have THE WORST development and planning team in history.

Pushing of deadlines over and over and over is unacceptable. I thought the first batch of suckers who bought BFL vaporware would have set a precedent for people to learn from their mistakes. I guess not.

Hey smoothie check this out about how bad is their development team:

Quote from: bcp19 on June 22, 2014, 09:00:43 PM

You think the customers are frustrated? You have no idea how the employees feel. Try spending an hour swapping components you can only see through a microscope sometime...

Year 2014, design and create high performance ASIC chip, BUT swapping small components by hand! An he feels frustrated because of that. Amaizing.

Quote from: bcp19 on June 22, 2014, 09:00:43 PM

...
I can very plainly state that there were NO 28nm chips available during that time frame.
...
Considering there were *NO* working 28nm chips until late April...

So after lying for the last 9 months the shill comes here and wants to tell the truth! RIGHT! Notice the emphasis on the "NO" chips. Please tell us more bcp19. We DO believe everything that you say. There were no chips before April and Inaba will commit seppukku if he misses the power draws! Yes we believe everything that a BFL employee says. Tell us more about you changing microscope components by hand and how were you so frustrated about that. It surely helps your customers who lost money on their BFL pre-order scheme. We know that ALL BFL customers are idiots because you made "ROI" because you asked for a refund.

There were NO chips before April. Please remember that everyone!

Wow, you are clueless... no, wait... CLUELESS. Ask an EE about rollout of a new concept item sometime. Up until then, your ignorance just shows you deserve the tin-foil hat you wear.

Cranky4u

hero member

Activity: 810

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Luke-Jr on June 23, 2014, 06:15:30 AM

lol?

no lol

*cue serious music*

Luke-Jr

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1186

lol?

Cranky4u

hero member

Activity: 810

Merit: 1000

All this infighting will only lead to one thing, the collapse of the BTC core development and support group.

I hereby call for a CEASE FIRE before something really pisses someone off enough to let a virtual nuke go BOOM.

smoothie

legendary

Activity: 2492

Merit: 1473

LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: Luke-Jr on June 23, 2014, 06:01:26 AM

Quote from: smoothie on June 23, 2014, 05:58:33 AM

If I remember the bet correctly BFL was supposed to ship their "ASICs" on or before April 1st.

Shipping doesn't consist of walking over to the other side of the building you are in to give Luke-Jr his free ASIC. lol

And that was one unit if I recall.

The context of the bet was that BFL would be shipping "en masse" which is what Josh kept claiming would happen in the never ending Two Weeks (TM) statements he kept giving.

No, that's not what the bet said.

lol yet you provide no evidence of what it really said.

I remember clearly the bet was claimed to have been won because BFL "shipped" your unit to you which equated to them walking the unit over to you. Or was it they put your unit on your work bench (area)?

Luke-Jr

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1186

Quote from: smoothie on June 23, 2014, 05:58:33 AM

If I remember the bet correctly BFL was supposed to ship their "ASICs" on or before April 1st.

Shipping doesn't consist of walking over to the other side of the building you are in to give Luke-Jr his free ASIC. lol

And that was one unit if I recall.

The context of the bet was that BFL would be shipping "en masse" which is what Josh kept claiming would happen in the never ending Two Weeks (TM) statements he kept giving.

No, that's not what the bet said.

smoothie

legendary

Activity: 2492

Merit: 1473

LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

If I remember the bet correctly BFL was supposed to ship their "ASICs" on or before April 1st.

Shipping doesn't consist of walking over to the other side of the building you are in to give Luke-Jr his free ASIC. lol

And that was one unit if I recall.

The context of the bet was that BFL would be shipping "en masse" which is what Josh kept claiming would happen in the never ending Two Weeks (TM) statements he kept giving.

-ck

legendary

Activity: 4088

Merit: 1631

Ruu \o/

Quote from: intron on June 23, 2014, 05:32:10 AM

From 'A point of order: Conduct in this subforum' :

".... Generally the subject matter should be boring —
technical, procedural, dry things. ..."

This thread might not fully comply with this rule I guess:)

Indeed not but it's been enjoyable watching it.

Anyway I've been watching to try and decide where it fits so I'm now moving it to scam accusations.

intron

sr. member

Activity: 427

Merit: 251

- electronics design|embedded software|verilog -

From 'A point of order: Conduct in this subforum' :

".... Generally the subject matter should be boring —
technical, procedural, dry things. ..."

This thread might not fully comply with this rule I guess:)

RoadStress

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1007

Quote from: Biffa on June 23, 2014, 04:46:48 AM

Quote from: RoadStress on June 23, 2014, 04:27:29 AM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on June 23, 2014, 04:21:11 AM

So you're not interested in the facts, just trolling.
Thanks for clarifying that; I'll stop wasting my time answering you.

I am interested in facts. Facts which you are evading to tell and you put me to search for them. If you say that the bet should have been a Win for BFL then you must know the terms for the bet. Putting me to search for them is a waste of time. If you don't know the terms for the bet then you just talked without nothing to back it up, but I am sure it's not your case.

Please tell us why should the bet be a Win for BFL! Only because there was a shipping label which was never actually used for a long period of time?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/coinjedi-betsofbitcoin-scammers-declares-push-on-obvious-win-for-bfl-bet-165500

Problem was the title of the bet was at odds with the description of the bet which is why it was classed as a draw (rightly or wrongly, I wasn't involved so am not interested)

Thank you. As I said the bet was made by a rushed person, not by lawyers. I am sure that he wasn't even aware that the title is part of the agreement. What matters is that the scope of the bet was is BFL will ship units before 1st April. They clearly haven't shipped anything before or on 1st April. They didn't ship anything the whole April and May month. That's what matters. Luke-Jr says that the bet should be a Win for BFL because they clearly shipped so many units before 1st April.

Edit: Unfortunately the bet was made so horribly wrong because it only asks for a hashing proof. Not having the unit in hand. Worst bet ever! But thank you Luke-Jr for helping scammers from BFL to get a draw on that bet by posting the required pictures 30 minutes before the deadline. We really need more people like you!

Biffa

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Activity: 3220

Merit: 1220

Quote from: RoadStress on June 23, 2014, 04:27:29 AM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on June 23, 2014, 04:21:11 AM

So you're not interested in the facts, just trolling.
Thanks for clarifying that; I'll stop wasting my time answering you.

I am interested in facts. Facts which you are evading to tell and you put me to search for them. If you say that the bet should have been a Win for BFL then you must know the terms for the bet. Putting me to search for them is a waste of time. If you don't know the terms for the bet then you just talked without nothing to back it up, but I am sure it's not your case.

Please tell us why should the bet be a Win for BFL! Only because there was a shipping label which was never actually used for a long period of time?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/coinjedi-betsofbitcoin-scammers-declares-push-on-obvious-win-for-bfl-bet-165500

Problem was the title of the bet was at odds with the description of the bet which is why it was classed as a draw (rightly or wrongly, I wasn't involved so am not interested)

RoadStress

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Activity: 1904

Merit: 1007

Quote from: Luke-Jr on June 23, 2014, 04:31:27 AM

It's either you or me searching; I already know the conclusion, so I don't care to take the hours looking through the thread (stupid bitcointalk won't let me download all the posts in it for some reason).

Quote from: Luke-Jr on June 23, 2014, 04:31:27 AM

Quote from: RoadStress on June 23, 2014, 04:27:29 AM

If you say that the bet should have been a Win for BFL then you must know the terms for the bet. Putting me to search for them is a waste of time. If you don't know the terms for the bet then you just talked without nothing to back it up, but I am sure it's not your case.

I knew the terms over a year ago when it was an active topic.
I recall the conclusion (that it should have been a BFL Win), but not the details.

Ok. I won't search and you won't either. I remember that bet was for BFL delivering units before 1st April. No matter how you or me interpret the terms of the bet, the purpose was the same. No matter happened with your unit the facts remain and those are that the next unit and even your unit left BFL 3 months later. This whole discussion on the terms of the bet is pointless for me. The bet wasn't made by lawyers or by someone who can state some neutral terms. Bet was made by a normal person and he put what he thought to be decent terms for it (unfortunately very vague and arguable like in our case). Trying to twist the bet statements is a waste of time since BFL really failed to deliver units before 1st April.

Even if they have physically delivered the unit to you it was still a twist because next units went out of the door 3 months later. I realize that in a court that would stand as a win, but in real life you get shit on your door and some human parts stuck in your holes for such gimmicks.

Carry on!

DrG

legendary

Activity: 2086

Merit: 1035

Quote from: Luke-Jr on June 23, 2014, 04:31:27 AM

Quote from: DrG on June 23, 2014, 04:21:25 AM

What I want to know is what happened at BFL between 3/31/13 and 6/30/13. It took over 3 months for BFL to go from "shipping" Luke's Single to shipping my Single, and my Single was one of the first 100 ordered.

Probably not the whole picture, but note that Little Single was the original design (square case that was later used for the 5Gh unit) and used 8 chips (IIRC) to run the 30 Gh/s.
The final 30Gh unit ended up something like 2x the size using only 4 chips (again IIRC), and uses less electrical power.
It probably has a longer lifetime too (the original one already died and got RMA'd a long time ago).

Quote from: DrG on June 23, 2014, 04:21:25 AM

During that 3 month delay I lost the potential return of my 209BTC outlay.

While it probably doesn't help (we all still lost a lot on this downtime), we can't actually know the total loss value.
Had BFL actually delivered on time, the difficulty would have skyrocketted even before the Avalons shipped...

Quote from: DrG on June 23, 2014, 04:21:25 AM

I want to know if BFL was actively mining at extended length with first Singles. Ultimately I was only able to mine a little over 17BTC with something I spent 209BTC. There's not making positive ROI and then there's having a company steal your money outright by using your hardware while blatantly telling lies "oh we can't get it to work". Angry

I don't think they were, but I don't have any evidence either.

I know they revised it but I can't see the revision taking 3 months - 90 days since they said they were working weekends as well.

My 55GH/s (barely scraping the 10% tolerance rule they set) Single died 5 days after it arrived, and it took them 11 days to RMA it. If BFL got their units out before Avalon Batch 2 they would have at least tried to commit to their advertising failure of being the first ASIC manufacturer which is what they touted when they hooked me in 6/2012.

I thought put this all past me and just wanted to keep it as a learning experience to not trust people, but now I am reliving this nightmare again. And with the new "revelation", I think the community can agree that BFL has committed blatant fraud. If I did similar things I lose my license and probably my house and all my assets.

BFL will have their day in court to defend themselves. Too bad Satan can't be called in as a witness.

Luke-Jr

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1186

Quote from: DrG on June 23, 2014, 04:21:25 AM

What I want to know is what happened at BFL between 3/31/13 and 6/30/13. It took over 3 months for BFL to go from "shipping" Luke's Single to shipping my Single, and my Single was one of the first 100 ordered.

Probably not the whole picture, but note that Little Single was the original design (square case that was later used for the 5Gh unit) and used 8 chips (IIRC) to run the 30 Gh/s.
The final 30Gh unit ended up something like 2x the size using only 4 chips (again IIRC), and uses less electrical power.
It probably has a longer lifetime too (the original one already died and got RMA'd a long time ago).

Quote from: DrG on June 23, 2014, 04:21:25 AM

During that 3 month delay I lost the potential return of my 209BTC outlay.

While it probably doesn't help (we all still lost a lot on this downtime), we can't actually know the total loss value.
Had BFL actually delivered on time, the difficulty would have skyrocketted even before the Avalons shipped...

Quote from: DrG on June 23, 2014, 04:21:25 AM

I want to know if BFL was actively mining at extended length with first Singles. Ultimately I was only able to mine a little over 17BTC with something I spent 209BTC. There's not making positive ROI and then there's having a company steal your money outright by using your hardware while blatantly telling lies "oh we can't get it to work". Angry

I don't think they were, but I don't have any evidence either.

Quote from: RoadStress on June 23, 2014, 04:27:29 AM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on June 23, 2014, 04:21:11 AM

So you're not interested in the facts, just trolling.
Thanks for clarifying that; I'll stop wasting my time answering you.

I am interested in facts. Facts which you are evading to tell and you put me to search for them.

It's either you or me searching; I already know the conclusion, so I don't care to take the hours looking through the thread (stupid bitcointalk won't let me download all the posts in it for some reason).

Quote from: RoadStress on June 23, 2014, 04:27:29 AM

If you say that the bet should have been a Win for BFL then you must know the terms for the bet. Putting me to search for them is a waste of time. If you don't know the terms for the bet then you just talked without nothing to back it up, but I am sure it's not your case.

I knew the terms over a year ago when it was an active topic.
I recall the conclusion (that it should have been a BFL Win), but not the details.

RoadStress

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1007

Quote from: Luke-Jr on June 23, 2014, 04:21:11 AM

So you're not interested in the facts, just trolling.
Thanks for clarifying that; I'll stop wasting my time answering you.

I am interested in facts. Facts which you are evading to tell and you put me to search for them. If you say that the bet should have been a Win for BFL then you must know the terms for the bet. Putting me to search for them is a waste of time. If you don't know the terms for the bet then you just talked without nothing to back it up, but I am sure it's not your case.

Please tell us why should the bet be a Win for BFL! Only because there was a shipping label which was never actually used for a long period of time?

DrG

legendary

Activity: 2086

Merit: 1035

What I want to know is what happened at BFL between 3/31/13 and 6/30/13. It took over 3 months for BFL to go from "shipping" Luke's Single to shipping my Single, and my Single was one of the first 100 ordered. During that 3 month delay I lost the potential return of my 209BTC outlay. I want to know if BFL was actively mining at extended length with first Singles. Ultimately I was only able to mine a little over 17BTC with something I spent 209BTC. There's not making positive ROI and then there's having a company steal your money outright by using your hardware while blatantly telling lies "oh we can't get it to work". Angry

Topic: I no longer work for Butterfly Labs (BFL) - page 5. (Read 21110 times)