Placing a higher bid was not possible in the seconds available.
Why can't you place a higher bid beforehand? There is no need to submit orders in the last second, all limit buy and sell orders are kept in the system until canceled. 
Topic: ICBIT Derivatives Market (USD/BTC futures trading) - LIVE - page 32. (Read 97688 times)
It is really quite inexcusable that the [email protected] placed moments before clearing affects the clearing price as much as orders for considerable sums that have been up for long periods of time.
If something like that gives you a loss today, it will give you a corresponding winning tomorrow at the next clearing - or when you close your positions. So in the long run, it has no effect unless your positions are forced close, which of course could happen.
It affects available cash today once VM is assessed at clearing time, so it really does actually matter that it's not fucked every other day. (and, yeah, I'm talking about movement in either direction, caused by insignificant orders placed seconds before clearing...placed too late for anyone else to hit the offending bid/ask)
I maintain that it's bullshit that an order for one contract, placed seconds before clearing time, moves the clearing price as much as 10 contracts sitting there for hours. The fact is, the movement it creates is artificial, and it affects the trading that occurs in the next session because of the real or psychological effect of the Execution price in the traders' portfolios.. It is not, as picobit says, the case that "a loss today will be a corresponding winning tomorrow" Not even close.
I believe Fireball misunderstood the complaint. Placing a higher bid was not possible in the seconds available. The issue was the effect despite the proximity to clearing time. I have no idea the relevance of the arb-bot to this issue.
"Flash crash" is not possible, because short spikes won't produce a mass position liquidation in our system, especially if it goes *against* spot market. However, don't forget: if you're in "margin call zone", liquidation of your open positions may happen at every moment. Either fill up your account as soon as you can, or face consequences.
Those read like two conflicting statements.
Am I misunderstanding? To me it says.
A huge price swing won't cause liquidation. But be careful because a huge price swing could cause liquidation of your positions.
Nope. The first line describes why there is a price boundary for every trading session. If there would be none, then someone with 700 BTC (as of now) could buy all sell-side of the orderbook and become the one who defines current market price. Nothing would stop from putting orders like $1000 per 1 BTC.
The second line states: Even though the price fluctuations are limited within one trading session, it means you still have to check and ensure that you have enough money if the price goes against you.
Also, it states that you are informed that if there is not enough money, then forced sell (forced buy) may happen at any moment. It does not mean it's going to happen. All margin calls are being human-reviewed now, and only extreme cases are being force closed, often after unsuccesfully trying to reach the person by email beforehand.
"Flash crash" is not possible, because short spikes won't produce a mass position liquidation in our system, especially if it goes *against* spot market. However, don't forget: if you're in "margin call zone", liquidation of your open positions may happen at every moment. Either fill up your account as soon as you can, or face consequences.
Those read like two conflicting statements.
Am I misunderstanding? To me it says.
A huge price swing won't cause liquidation. But be careful because a huge price swing could cause liquidation of your positions.
The reason I am wondering is perhaps I would like to manage my balance to not have significantly more than is necessary to meet the margin maintenance requirements. If I simply needed to have sufficient maintenance at the time of clearing, then that would be easy -- as I could make sure to add more funds or do some trades before clearing if it looked like I might be getting close to having insufficient margin remaining. But if I have to worry that at any point in time throughout the day if a price swing goes against me my positions could get liquidated then I'm going to be more focused on making sure my margin maintenance level never ends up being low enough to where I'm exposed to that risk.
Is there more info on how this (liquidations) are handled?
So in the long run, it has no effect unless your positions are forced close,
Or you put in a lowball bid and just wait for "8 O'clock Charlie" to strike.
Incidentally, this works both ways. We've seen buying right before the bell that pushes the clearing price up above market as well.
Liquidity is the solution. And these type of profit opportunities are just what brings more liquidity.
It is really quite inexcusable that the [email protected] placed moments before clearing affects the clearing price as much as orders for considerable sums that have been up for long periods of time.
If something like that gives you a loss today, it will give you a corresponding winning tomorrow at the next clearing - or when you close your positions. So in the long run, it has no effect unless your positions are forced close, which of course could happen.
Sell Price Buy
25 12.73 L
1 12.49
12.48 5
25 12.73 L
1 12.49
12.48 5
The spread is higher than usual so it's easy for users to insert orders inside of it. If you don't want this to happen, just add a buy order at a higher price :-)
Anyway, after we're done with existing bunch of updates, I plan to move on to popularizing automated arbitrage (a new topic will be started for its discussion, I think) and share the already developed code for node.js and C# trading bots supporting ICBIT+MtGox. This should bring profits to users running bots thanks to arbitrage, and to futures market players because of higher liquidity available at a given moment and faster price changes (ultimately opening up scalping possibilities).
Sell Price Buy
20 12.84
56 12.75
10 12.74
25 12.73 L
1 12.49
12.48 5
12.45 6
12.42 42
12.41 18
12.401 22
Range 11.2365 - 13.7335
It is really quite inexcusable that the [email protected] placed moments before clearing affects the clearing price as much as orders for considerable sums that have been up for long periods of time.
Bullshit.
20 12.84
56 12.75
10 12.74
25 12.73 L
1 12.49
12.48 5
12.45 6
12.42 42
12.41 18
12.401 22
Range 11.2365 - 13.7335
It is really quite inexcusable that the [email protected] placed moments before clearing affects the clearing price as much as orders for considerable sums that have been up for long periods of time.
Bullshit.
Yeah, maybe becaouse iam your biggest fan 
i did place the first real order! i want 100 of that lovly shares
i did place the first real order! i want 100 of that lovly shares
Wow, that was a fast discovery. I added it to the list and put first orders to test it, like, 5 or 10 minutes ago :-)
I think fireball is working on the next futures, he just hasn't stated when the next ones are coming out. Really surprised about the last 24 hours, thought for sure someone was gonna get taken out today. need more cowbell (volitility)!
when do the new usd/btc futures start?
hmmm gonna be fun watching this clearing tonight! somebody might get taken out today!
Fireball, somewhere along the line you've introduced (or enhanced) a serious memory leak.
I open the futures page, and it's using 62Mb in Chromium. By the time it grows to 300Mb, I gotta restart my browser.Today, that only took about 1.5hrs.
It's gotten very bad in the last week I think - but seems like the leak was introduced prior to that (I've been wondering why my machine has become progressively slower to wake up, pulling what has turned out to be the icbit page up out of swap space. (I only have 1GB of ram in my main machine)
I open the futures page, and it's using 62Mb in Chromium. By the time it grows to 300Mb, I gotta restart my browser.Today, that only took about 1.5hrs.
It's gotten very bad in the last week I think - but seems like the leak was introduced prior to that (I've been wondering why my machine has become progressively slower to wake up, pulling what has turned out to be the icbit page up out of swap space. (I only have 1GB of ram in my main machine)
Oh, I'm going to check!
Fireball, somewhere along the line you've introduced (or enhanced) a serious memory leak.
I open the futures page, and it's using 62Mb in Chromium. By the time it grows to 300Mb, I gotta restart my browser.Today, that only took about 1.5hrs.
It's gotten very bad in the last week I think - but seems like the leak was introduced prior to that (I've been wondering why my machine has become progressively slower to wake up, pulling what has turned out to be the icbit page up out of swap space. (I only have 1GB of ram in my main machine)
Basically, I can no longer leave the futures page open, I have to open to check or trade and close when I stop looking at it.
Thanks for looking into this.
myself: I notice that the interesting bids have moved down about 10 cents from yesterday. IIRC the 3k bid was at 12.02 or so.
I open the futures page, and it's using 62Mb in Chromium. By the time it grows to 300Mb, I gotta restart my browser.Today, that only took about 1.5hrs.
It's gotten very bad in the last week I think - but seems like the leak was introduced prior to that (I've been wondering why my machine has become progressively slower to wake up, pulling what has turned out to be the icbit page up out of swap space. (I only have 1GB of ram in my main machine)
Basically, I can no longer leave the futures page open, I have to open to check or trade and close when I stop looking at it.
Thanks for looking into this.
myself: I notice that the interesting bids have moved down about 10 cents from yesterday. IIRC the 3k bid was at 12.02 or so.
interesting
And now a history of the last 100 trades that happend pls
please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems there is an off-by-one error in the generated depth diagrams.
OK, with the next update of the DOM charting (to show buy and sell sides separately), this bug also went away.
Also, spread between best bid and best ask became visible on the chart.
please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems there is an off-by-one error in the generated depth diagrams.
Hm, I'm gonna check tomorrow, thanks for reporting. Jump to: