Topic: ICONOMI - Live for today. Invest for tomorrow. - page 436. (Read 583538 times)

The fud this group is spreading is very ironic considering they may have broken US market manipulation and defamation laws.  Although, I have yet to see these laws applied to crypto.

Its not like ICN is the only crypto security being advertised and traded within the US (SNGLS). And its not necessarily in the interest of the US to crack down on this industry and push its growth and development out of the country. If the SEC was going to shut down crypto development in the US it probably would have done so already. I say HODL your ICN because when the platform launches the trolls will just melt away.

It seems like you're the real cheerleader every day was screaming about shit everywhere and anytime.  

0.1257 USD per ICN.

Please do not listen to CryptoInsiders. They are one of many troll accounts that spam this thread with misinformation.

Oh ? I was thinking FUD campain was finish but looks like it's not.

I wish all the bad to you my friend

what was ICO price?

Think about it like this.  If a group of people got together and said they were selling shares in a rental property they were going to build it would be considered a security because the implication is that the group raising the money is going to do work in order to return value to the investors. Now replace "rental property" with "software platform" and its the exact same situation.

I don't have a problem with unregistered foreign securities, I don't really think its the US governments business telling me who I can and can't invest with, but lets not bullshit ourselves about what this really is.

If the property or the platform were already built it might be a different matter, but that's not the situation we have.

All the same, I'm hodling cuz I think something will get built.

What legal structures, laws, or court case precedents are there for having ownership of a software platform via holding a crypto token?

Seems like a unregulated grey area.

Just because a crypto token "seems like a security" to you, does not mean it has ever been legally classified as one.

Bitcoin "seems like money" to most people, yet a Judge in a Miami court case surprisingly ruled that "Bitcoin isn't real money"

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/26/bitcoin-not-real-money-miami-judge

When you go into uncharted territory with a business venture, you must have some balls and remember it is easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission.


p.s. Member 19 December when ICN hit 33k satoshi for the first time and we were joyful.  I member.

I don't know why Cashila came into this (i didnt bring it in) but would not the Iconomi platform and it's intellectual property et al comprise an entity in which our tokens represent ownership? Seems like a security.

Is your argument that the platform and its associated intellectual property would be considered some sort of digital commodity?

We're all aware that ICN represents little more than ownership of software, intellectual property, and the revenue stream generated by that software and IP but how is that much different than with a company like Facebook?

Let's take a look at ICN blockchain movements since the FUD campaign began on 6 February

Looking at top 30 accounts in descending order:

The biggest movement was withdraws from ico platform account to exchanges.  These are more likely to be crypto newbies who don't have ethereum wallets and who are easily panicked
980k transferred to exchanges  
Largest chunks: 75k, 63k, 47k, 37k, 33k, 32k, 28k, 27k, 25k, 20k, 20k, 20k, 19k, 18k, 18k, 17k, 16k, 16k, 15k, 15k, 14k, 13k, 13k, 13k, 12k, 11k, 11k, 10k, 10k, 10k, 10k, 10k
https://etherscan.io/token/ICONOMI?a=0xcf40d0d2b44f2b66e07cace1372ca42b73cf21a3

100k transferred to Kraken
https://etherscan.io/token/ICONOMI?a=0x2ccc5a059a1bda4c3c3c594516e812a0b15799c9

20k transferred to Kraken
https://etherscan.io/token/ICONOMI?a=0xc6bfce8cead4ecc595ba227b9527afa914dd8183

100k transferred to Kraken
https://etherscan.io/token/ICONOMI?a=0x7ad41e9d6e1fa47f1f6bcc63bd0327009590a47b

77k transferred to Kraken
https://etherscan.io/token/ICONOMI?a=0x6fd78c5e9b84a2abb8fdfaed1428726200af5a9d

300k transferred to Kraken - $1M worth of ETH in the same account, so it seems odd he transferred 60% of his ICN balance to exchange, unless he wanted to panic market and buy cheaper
https://etherscan.io/token/ICONOMI?a=0xf61e8af772c7e6c4ba446a5f5df8c76bba37432b

100k transferred to Kraken
https://etherscan.io/token/ICONOMI?a=0xc51d990dcf1afb87c02fddf8153cc58ca54a6471

1.8k withdrawn from Kraken
https://etherscan.io/token/ICONOMI?a=0x8af53ab13ddb53981b56a523c90c88a6295199b0

164k withdrawn from Kraken
https://etherscan.io/token/ICONOMI?a=0xfc7bc59f4c1fc6dd424529f1c9d48a62b649ad43

A transfer doesn't necessarily mean buying/selling, just interesting data to look at.

Interesting thing is only 9 out of the top 30 accounts had any movements at all since 6 February.

Wrong and wrong.  ICN tokens represent 100% ownership of the intellectual property of the ICONOMI software platform and all fees which are gathered from its use - NOT ownership in Cashila, which is the registered Slovenian company that is the initial service operator of the ICONOMI platform.

From page 7 of the whitepaper (see https://ethbuy.iconomi.net/ICONOMI_Whitepaper.pdf ) :

"ICONOMI will issue 100 milion ICONOMI tokens (ICN) 10 days after the crowdfunding
campaign successfully ends. 100 % of the ICONOMI tokens represent 100 % ownership
of the ICONOMI platform, comprising of all assets and liabilities, as well as each and every
right and obligation, including but not limited to intellectual property rights, branding and
trademarks."

So...to use an analogy, ICN represents ownership in MS-DOS, not Microsoft.  Or Farmville, not Zynga.


Actually, there is no "ICONOMI, Inc."  From Whitepaper page 8:

"Cashila OOD s.r.o. (hereinafter referred to as “Cashila”  <https://www.cashila.com/> ) will serve as the first service
operator of the ICONOMI platform. Having at its disposal the required knowledge,
technical skills and manpower, as well as the status of a financial institution and a longstanding
relationship with both the crypto and investment communities, Cashila will
undertake to develop and manage the ICONOMI platform in accordance with the vision
outlined in this white paper and detailed in the accompanying documentation on behalf of
the ICN token holders. Cashila does not and will not claim or register any kind of property,
trademark or other rights pertaining to the ICONOMI platform. All intellectual property
rights, trademarks, branding and other rights remain exclusively the property of the
ICONOMI platform. "

Bottom line: ICN tokens are ownership shares in a piece of software and the money it generates.  ICN is not ownership of any company (especially not Cashila OOD s.r.o. , registration information at  http://rejstrik.penize.cz/03621111-cashila-ood-s-r-o ) , and thus is not a security, unregistered or otherwise.

Thats true... Now all the people will slowly start to realize that they have succumb to FUD on basically no evidence. I feel sorry for them but can't blame them, the FUD campaign was realy strong. ICN will recover just like ETH recovered the FUDing when it was 6$ per ETH a few months back

Keyword here is represent.  Meaning this is what the ICN tokens represent based on trust.  

Nowhere did it say ICN are convertible to actual shares of Iconomi Inc, the company that controls all the crypto raised in ico.

It's like how contributors to ETH or LSK icos don't have any legal rights in Ethereum Foundation or Lisk Foundation.

Anyone as tested http://portal.melonport.com? I hope ICONOMI platform can do better than that...

Pretty sure we were sold ICN under the pretense that tokens represented 100% ownership of the company. ICN is indeed an unregistered foreign security as far as US standards go. I don't really have a problem with that.

Only 22 btc to 0.00038. Pump it!

Another point of view is that BTC will still remain the top coin (Gold Standard) and price will still increase higher and be used for larger transactions. There will be other layers build on top such as Segwit,lightning and others yet to come to deal with smaller transactions and speed confirmations. I am holding my BTC, some ETH and certain tokens on the ETH platform like ICN. I agree some alts will also be used for certain needs.

Exactly this.  

It's obvious from the posting style/history that these accounts (and many others) were all operated by the same pump/dump group:

aDAPPter --------> https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/adappter-804360
Warren_Buffett -> https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/warrenbuffett-928757
Wall-Street ------> https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/wall-street-839468
Coca-Cola -------> https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/coca-cola-927634
TopTrade ---------> https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/toptrade-953961
KK99 --------------> https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/kk99-354824
MGM --------------> https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/mgm-800094
CryptoInsiders --> https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/cryptoinsiders-826008
435613422 -------> https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/435613422-168412
JayBerretti -------> https://www.reddit.com/user/JayBerretti
nukecookie -------> https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/nukecookie-314019
btcrising ----------> https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/btcrising-314730

You can see they invented the "Feb. 9 announcement" rumor then pumped that rumor on slack, reddit, and BCT from dozens of accounts.

This group may have been behind the 1M ICN fake buywall on Kraken.

The fake buy wall was removed 5 February.  The accounts started fudding on 6 February, then turned up the intensity/frequency of the fudding starting from 8 February.

This leads me to assume it is a well-funded group that has at least 400 BTC to set buy walls with, and probably a similar amount of ICN as well.  

This means they can make the Kraken orderbook/chart show whatever they want.  They can transfer a large amount to Kraken then dump to their own buy walls to create panic if they have more than 1 Kraken account.