Topic: If Greece defaults - page 20. (Read 45224 times)
It doesn't really matter at this point. Greece is no closer to a deal, and no deal will work. Five years' worth of wishful thinking, and they're *still* doing it.
So you say that in present day conditions Germany wouldn't give its consent to build the Nord Stream?
Gerhard Schröder was the German chancellor back then. He was more like neutral towards Russia. He made a lot of contributions to the peaceful relationship between Russia and Germany and he wanted to restore the sovereignty of Germany. All that changed when Angela Merkel was voted in to power. She want to make Germany the most loyal vassal state of the United States.
But you didn't answer my question. Would Germany give its consent to build the Nord Stream today, Merkel or no Merkel? What do you personally think?
So you say that in present day conditions Germany wouldn't give its consent to build the Nord Stream?
Gerhard Schröder was the German chancellor back then. He was more like neutral towards Russia. He made a lot of contributions to the peaceful relationship between Russia and Germany and he wanted to restore the sovereignty of Germany. All that changed when Angela Merkel was voted in to power. She want to make Germany the most loyal vassal state of the United States.
Germany doesn't even have full sovereignty, but this didn't prevent it from securing its future by building the Nord Stream. So it still remains to be seen how much the US is mixed up in all this and what is the limit of their influence through Europe in such matters...
It may just happen to be a power struggle inside Europe itself
It may just happen to be a power struggle inside Europe itself
You can't compare the political situation which existed when Germany approved the Nord Stream, to the one which is existing right now. Back then, the Russia-EU relations were quite good. But now, it is under quite a lot of strain. It will be very difficult to get the EU approval, for any major pipeline project which will be undertaken by Russia.
But the question was how much of the US is behind the recent turmoil in the EU relations with Russia. It is beyond doubt that they have a hand in the events now transpiring, but I doubt that they are the prime driver (despite being the prime beneficiary)...
So you say that in present day conditions Germany wouldn't give its consent to build the Nord Stream?
Germany doesn't even have full sovereignty, but this didn't prevent it from securing its future by building the Nord Stream. So it still remains to be seen how much the US is mixed up in all this and what is the limit of their influence through Europe in such matters...
It may just happen to be a power struggle inside Europe itself
It may just happen to be a power struggle inside Europe itself
You can't compare the political situation which existed when Germany approved the Nord Stream, to the one which is existing right now. Back then, the Russia-EU relations were quite good. But now, it is under quite a lot of strain. It will be very difficult to get the EU approval, for any major pipeline project which will be undertaken by Russia.
This will be good for Greece.
It is in Europe's best interests to build the Turkish Stream (southern parts of Europe, at least)
There are multiple factors in play here. It might be Europe's best interests to build the Turkish Stream. But you should remember that almost all the Western European nations are simply vassals of the United States. They should seek the permission from the US first, to allow the construction of the Turkish Stream through Greece.
The US, on the otherhand want to prevent Russians from supplying piped natural gas to Europe. They want the Europeans to source their gas from either the American suppliers or from the Qataris.
Germany doesn't even have full sovereignty, but this didn't prevent it from securing its future by building the Nord Stream. So it still remains to be seen how much the US is mixed up in all this and what is the limit of their influence through Europe in such matters...
It may just happen to be a power struggle inside Europe itself
The future of Greece is together with Putin
Its no joke. Putin will be able to save the Greeks from Financial meltdown. The proposed Turkish stream pipeline will carry around 45 billion cubic meters of gas from Russia to Europe. If the pipeline travels some 1,000 km through Greece, the Greeks will earn around $30 for every 1,000 cubic meter as transit fees. That totals to 1.35 billion USD every year, which will be a huge relief to the debt-ridden nation. And who knows? Putin might even offer advance payments to the Greeks.
Couldn't aggree more.
Putin desperately needs a budy within EU to delay and abort the embargo.
It's not a big deal for Russia, asthe Greek economy is considerably small.
The Greek stream pipeline will compete with TAP.
USA don't like this, as they already tried to avert the Greek government mooves towards Russia.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/09/business/international/greece-us-russia-energy-pipeline.html?_r=0
But since they don't do something to help Greece other than saying "Do Reforms"(here, I don't think just cutting wages and increasing VAT is reforms!), the Greeks willnot stop...
It is in Europe's best interests to build the Turkish Stream (southern parts of Europe, at least)
There are multiple factors in play here. It might be Europe's best interests to build the Turkish Stream. But you should remember that almost all the Western European nations are simply vassals of the United States. They should seek the permission from the US first, to allow the construction of the Turkish Stream through Greece.
The US, on the otherhand want to prevent Russians from supplying piped natural gas to Europe. They want the Europeans to source their gas from either the American suppliers or from the Qataris.
well rusia can make a unlimited income to greece i doubt troika will stop those potencial incomes from the country that is loosing more and more all the time... the only way to avoid be out of europe that dindnt happened till the moment is wait russia to start the project .otherwise we will see greece taking more money or just out of eurozone in the next months... too many pression already
It is not that simple. If the EU allows Russia to build the Turkish Stream pipeline through Greece, then Ukraine will lose billions of USD worth of revenue every year in terms of lost gas transport fees. It will destroy the already damaged Ukrainian economy. The EU will have to make a very tough choice. Either it should allow Ukraine to collapse, or it should forget about the Greek debt.
I guess you are misguided about the real situation with respect to Ukraine. Actually, you are placing the effect where its cause should be. It is not Russia bypassing its gas pipelines around Ukraine that would kill Ukraine's economy (or greatly contribute to its demise). Ukraine's economy is already destroyed (the country lives, or, rather, lived off debts, since now it is in a phase of final meltdown), its gas pipelines are decrepit and falling apart (being a Soviet legacy), and it makes absolutely no sense for Russia to consider what will remain of Ukraine in a matter of months as a gas transporter...
It is in Europe's best interests to build the Turkish Stream (southern parts of Europe, at least)
well rusia can make a unlimited income to greece i doubt troika will stop those potencial incomes from the country that is loosing more and more all the time... the only way to avoid be out of europe that dindnt happened till the moment is wait russia to start the project .otherwise we will see greece taking more money or just out of eurozone in the next months... too many pression already
It is not that simple. If the EU allows Russia to build the Turkish Stream pipeline through Greece, then Ukraine will lose billions of USD worth of revenue every year in terms of lost gas transport fees. It will destroy the already damaged Ukrainian economy. The EU will have to make a very tough choice. Either it should allow Ukraine to collapse, or it should forget about the Greek debt.
well rusia can make a unlimited income to greece i doubt troika will stop those potencial incomes from the country that is loosing more and more all the time... the only way to avoid be out of europe that dindnt happened till the moment is wait russia to start the project .otherwise we will see greece taking more money or just out of eurozone in the next months... too many pression already
its not the fact that greece can be out of euro that makes it more reliable for using bitcoins i do wish greece can overcome this risk and be less nervouse in bussiness and porfit for the all good fo euro and for the good sake of bitcoin in greece cause euro makes bitcoin comparation a good example to use just less currencies fiat in order to trade from euro to btc and vice versa.
If Greece pays the outstanding debts and exits the EU with other countries following it, and the fuck finally happens, their debt may evaporate faster than that of the US may grow...
If there are only debtors around, who owes whom?
The new Greek FM and PM must have seen this coming...if the people rally around them and the Russians or Chinese write a cheque...this will be a walk in the park...couple of weeks from now....If there are only debtors around, who owes whom?
Bye bye EUR!
Let the breakdown of EUR begin.
Other nations will be idiots if they do not follow suit in salvaging whatever national self interest remains instead of listening to the Germans or ECB or whoever runs the asylum in EU.
Ha-ha, nice turn!
If I were Tsipras I would pull a Goldman Sachs and take the last billions out of the Central Bank and lever them up to buy a couple of trillion dollars worth of Euro/$US currency swaps from Deutsche Bank and then very publicly tell the Troika to go fuck themselves.
Goldman Sachs was the perpetrator of the fraud that has resulted in this current predicament. Not only did Goldman commit fraudulent acts, the bankers received healthy bonuses for doing so. Nice work if you can get it....and live with a clean conscience.I agree, the combination of corrupt politician, the rich Greeks taking all their money out and not paying taxes, the borrower's lifestyle and the stupid derivatives the Govt bought from wall street is what made the country collapse along with the most stupid EU policies that helped destroy the agrarian sector and small manufacturing sectors..Greeks need to wake up, use their brains and carve a new future for themselves..best of all is a debt write off for now and let the Greeks grow the country again. After that, any bit of surplus left over they can pay back to the creditors as a token of good will..The Germans still owe Greece war reparations..so let them pay off some of the debt..
If Putin steps in now, he will demand his pound of flesh.
Putin has already received his pound of flesh.
Remember that a few months ago, Tsiparas had agreed to route a section of the Turkish Stream pipeline through Greece. The Macedonians have also approved routing the pipeline through their territory, and Putin has finally got the replacement for the South Stream pipeline. And know what? The troika can't do anything about it.
even with some countrys facing huge problems,putin can really save greece problems ,but when it will start if will start those program..
The Turkish Stream is currently under construction. So in normal scenario, it will take many years for the Greeks to receive their first revenue from the pipeline. I just hope that the Russians will give an advance payment for the transaction fee, thereby reducing the chances of Greece defaulting on its debt. But I am not sure about it, as Russia is struggling financially right now.
If Putin steps in now, he will demand his pound of flesh.
Then the troika won't be amused. Greece can't afford to do that. No matter how helpful Russia is, they still need to humour the troika.
It's been clear now that the Greeks will never be able to pay the debt, no matter what the fuck happens:
That is how hell looks like. Unfortunately lots of other countries out there will end up with a perpetual debt too. The USA too, but since they are the USA and they can print infinite money, then can get away with anything.
That is how hell looks like. Unfortunately lots of other countries out there will end up with a perpetual debt too. The USA too, but since they are the USA and they can print infinite money, then can get away with anything.
If Greece pays the outstanding debts and exits the EU with other countries following it, and the fuck finally happens, their debt may evaporate faster than that of the US may grow...
If there are only debtors around, who owes whom?
It's been clear now that the Greeks will never be able to pay the debt, no matter what the fuck happens:
That is how hell looks like. Unfortunately lots of other countries out there will end up with a perpetual debt too. The USA too, but since they are the USA and they can print infinite money, then can get away with anything.
That is how hell looks like. Unfortunately lots of other countries out there will end up with a perpetual debt too. The USA too, but since they are the USA and they can print infinite money, then can get away with anything.
even with some countrys facing huge problems,putin can really save greece problems ,but when it will start if will start those program..
The Turkish Stream is currently under construction. So in normal scenario, it will take many years for the Greeks to receive their first revenue from the pipeline. I just hope that the Russians will give an advance payment for the transaction fee, thereby reducing the chances of Greece defaulting on its debt. But I am not sure about it, as Russia is struggling financially right now.
Jump to: