Topic: If Greece defaults - page 24. (Read 45224 times)

In fact, that is an aristocratic point of view.  But there are other ways to finance public spending, than to take from the productive.

In fact, I can think of two simple ways which would allow for taxing, without being compulsory.

The first idea is that land and natural resources are, and remain, always property of everybody, and that nobody can own land or own natural resources.  The way to obtain them for private use, would be to rent them (to the highest bidder, over long periods - 100 years or so -  if you want to put some real estate on it for instance), and to give concessions to natural resources to the highest bidder.  The income from the rent on land, and the concessions for natural resources, could finance the state, without having to tax anything in a compulsory way.

Another way would be to require people to indicate those possessions for which they want to have state protection of ownership, and tax those items along an indicated scale.  So you're not obliged to indicate a possession, it would not be fraud, but it would imply that no state service is going to protect your property rights on it, no police, no judge.  If you don't want to indicate that you possess a house, then no problem, this is no fraud, but the day that you have a burglar in your house, police won't do anything.  If you want to sell your house, no legal way to prove that you own that house will be available.

The same way for financial and other valuable assets.  No way to coerce the counterparty in executing a contract you didn't declare.  But no fraud either.

I hate this kind of thinking because it's always those with no money that claim how the rich should be taxed more. They shouldn't. The vast majority of the time they worked hard for that money and shouldn't be raped by the government to pay for plebs who all they do is take take take. Would you be saying 'hey, tax me more' if you were rich? No.

lol, if someone worked really hard to get rich he need to give it back? What he "took" from you?

It is not completely clear what "exiting the euro" means. It does not mean that the people that happen to live within the borders of Greece will stop using euro automatically. It is more like that greece will have to leave the institutions that define the euro, the ecb and the eurogroup (and probably countless others), and the ecb's responsibilities towards the greek banks will end. What the people do is not dependent on that, and the state can if they want continue to use euro as a unit of account. The banks will immediately go bancrupt, as the only thing holding them up now is the ecb with its emergency liquidity assistance. (Which at this point should be renamed to "eternal insolvency denial assistance").

They are probably in lots of troubles now.
What they should have done 5 years ago was to exit the Euro - the longer they made it linger the more troubles they brought upon themselves.

Thing is you need to get taxes from somewhere. So or tax capital or tax work. Both are bad. But you need to do something or just decrease spending. What was and is trying to do in most cases in Europe. Of course many countries failed so governments will get reelected.

Generally. Greece is not that much in debts. But yes, if they would not do anything 5 years ago, they would be in deep shit now.

.... Many of them have created tons of jobs.. The gov has tricked you into thinking that some how taxing them will make your country rich.. it won't.

When your country spends 100 billion a year and is takingon debt to continue that spending.  Taking an extra 100 million from the people that built your ecom is dumb.

A) it won't do anything to help the govs insane spending
B) They'll leave hurting your ecom even more.

The idea that taxing the rich super heavily is going to help the ecom is hilarious.

Yeah I dot speak spanish but been following the elections this weekend and from I gathered, it seems that rightwing parties have lost like 50% of their votes and new leftist forces are coming up. It's a side effect of being buttfucked by shitty wages for a long time.

The thing is, with automation happening yearly we are all headed towards socialist policies being inevitable, like universal welfare. Socialism won at this level at the end, as we are seeing history unfold. Have fun keeping a society out of rioting on a daily unless you give them basic welfare once the robots kick them out of all their jobs.

Sorry but the rich should get taxed lol..they need to give something back to society not always take take take lol.. I do think though that Greece should have grexited right after Syriza won the elections and not pay the IMF squat any more, soon the U.K will Brexit and France on the way too and Spain looks like it's gonna vote in another lefiist Government..The Troika gonna have a lot of fun now WOW.hahaha 

Im not so sure anymore, i've seen weirder things happening. They may end up leaving the euro and going back to drachma, even after getting the money, just as revenge.

Greece will not default because the chance is very high that it becomes a failed state. And no one in the European Union and Eurozone is interested to have such a country in its union. Further, if Greece defaults it is becoming a backdoor for countries like Russia or China. So, keep cool, Greece will get all the money that wants 

Taxing sucks, but someone has to pay for the ones that cannot get any by themselves, that's life. And who is on the best position to deliver that? the stupid rich (anyone making more than 500K a year for example, should be taxed a bit more than the regular folk, and increasingly more if they make beyond that).

Yep, its pretty childing thingking about taxing the rich.

Why do you want to tax anybody at all? Why do you want people to extort money from you, at the face of gunpoint or jail, that is what taxation is.

They will just go else where.  The idea you can just raise the taxes on the rich and make money from them is amusing.

Past governments also made it this way that greek people out of borders couldn't vote. I even wonder how Syriza was elected with all these traps made from the previous government. And lot of propaganda from news.. every elections they were showing some immature stupid young people that were drinking coffees and didn't go to vote. They wouldn;t interview people that were really concerned about their country. And don't tell me that all these don't make a difference and don't tell me you expect all people to have critical thinking or be intellectual to overpass these obstacles.

The debt payment timeline for Greece shows that it has to pay back billions of Euros over the next months. For the upcoming week Greece has to pay 750 mln to IMF. The party could be over next week.

http://graphics.wsj.com/greece-debt-timeline/

That creates the hazard of seeming a soft touch to the other screwed up indebted economies dependent on ECB largesse.

If nobody is taxed, who pays for welfare and whatnot for those that do truly need it and cannot afford it?

Thats a very naive idea. You cant tax the rich, not because they avoid taxes, but because it's impossible to do so for 2 reasons:

1) They bribe politicians
2) They will just pass the cost down to their employees or raise prices (the customer gets it)

How about we tax nobody?

Good start may be to allow Greece to repay its loans without interest. Next week they have to pay 750 million in interest on a multi billion dollar debt. A few weeks back it was 200 million, so basically they've paid 1 billion euros in interest in this time. This is not to write off the debt, just suspend the interest payments to Eu financials and the IMF, who should stop acting like Wonga.