Topic: If Greece defaults - page 26. (Read 45224 times)

As johan; very clearly put it, defaulting, or other major economical/social disruption event is waived as a threat, but the fact is that even the right to have those is taken away from people.
Have you thought about those to question marks? Why not taking on the very wealthy? Why not taking on the church?
Really, why is directly impacting the bulk of the population assets more reasonable than a handful. If they were going to say "well, it's not fair, but we need to put the hands on working class people's pockets" why is it always out of question simple take over a couple of strategic large companies?

If this is as serious as they want to make everyone believe, then they could simple gather a couple of hundred soldiers and in one single morning take over the largest bank, or the largest power company and nationalize it. This is the way it has been done since the dawn of human history.
The matter in question here is not country finance or other bullshit they come up with, it is: "how can we still make business".

A few years ago, Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez acompained by militar force, headed up to Santander Bank's office and demanded the to leave the country while paying them in cash the estimated value of the bank. You might not like him (he's dead anyway) but this is the difference between actually wanting to fix an economical problem and just giving you some bullshit so you work harder and get payed less while their business is not disruped or abruptly take out of their hands.

Now all those think bitcoin can have an important role here, I haven't looked at the numbers, but I don't think bitcoin provides enough liquidity right now, it would need to be worth some 100 times more or so. But you cannot expect it to arbitrarily being inflated that much in a short period of time. That would be even worse than bootstraping a new currency.

And yanis varoufakis is not a stupid man, hes actually fucking brilliant, academically speaking.

I'm positive he is very aware that bitcoin (because he's talked about it publicly so much) can subvert many of the international political fallout towards Greece in an event of a default.

I think you're dead wrong here.


The consequences of defaulting are literally haunting. If you think the world debt load looks bad and is a runaway freight train, the end game results of defaulting are literally worse.


They will have no currency that will be accepted by the surrounding european countries = no trade, no export, no import
They will have no natural resources = no commodity trades, they will already have to sell whatever commodities they have at a bigger loss (think iran selling oil to china while oil plummets in value)
They will be completely cut off from the international banking system = no ability to internationally transact


I mean, those things start the exact second they declare a default.

Who knows what punishments ensue, because they wont be allowed back into the international banking system.

Defaulting might bring structural changes that are desperately needed, but it could (likely) also send them bank into the medieval times for 10-15 years. A complete generation of people will have suffered because of it. And by suffering, I mean people literally dying in the streets from starvation.


The trick is that while their government wont hold EUROs, the citizens will. And it will create this fascinating micro economy where the Greek government begins issuing a new currency, which no one will prefer, while everyone backroom deals in Euro.

If you thought it was difficult to raise revenue through proper tax enforcment now, think about what happens post default. It will be even worse.

(for the record, the most practical decision is clearly to default. you preserve your sovereignty, but you lose a lot of lives in the process)

Don't forget all the politicians are put there by the country population. If the country is not complaining, why should anyone else?

Wow that was a good one, as a voluntaryst myself, i have never thought that there is a single politician out there that has its integrity.

Most of them are just parasitic, thief ,manipulator ,cockroach, sociopaths and some even psychopaths, acting as if they were God on Earth.

Well that guy seems different. Good luck for him, too bad he will be thrown out quick, the scum doesnt like honest people hanging around them.

It obviously takes more than just a single person to make the change even though that person holds the authority or power to decide the monetary policy. You know the system is rotten and the only thing they can do right now is to patch up a leak and open up another new hole in the process. It's destined to be doomed.

That day will never come, humans are just too stupid to know their enemy, and to be honest they really deserve it. If they are stupid, then let the banksters rob them perpetually, that is what they are good for.

In the meantime let us become rich with bitcoin and F the rest of them.

Yes, just read this one:

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/05/01/varoufakis-tells-attack-witness-he-might-be-expelled-from-greek-government/

“If you know that the system is rotten, why don’t you do something to change it?,” an anarchist asked Varoufakis to get a stunning reply.

“It’s not possible, simply. This is the current system, I tried, but I failed. It’s impossible,” admitted the Greek Finance minister according to the witness.
- See more at: http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/05/01/varoufakis-tells-attack-witness-he-might-be-expelled-from-greek-government/#sthash.rtZQnkFy.dpuf

This looks obvious to me too, and I find this whole discussion silly.

Thats bullshit. People would want to work in the fields but the government doesnt let them.

Do you know how many regulations you have to follow to be a farmer? Do you know how many taxes the EU puts on fucking farming equipment.

The tractors are taxed by m^3 of fuel consumption, and all the fucking safety regulation is bullshit.


How about throwing the greek commercial code , fiscal code and all other government regulation, in the trash can, and let people trade and produce freely without restrictions.

In 2 years Greece would be out of debt and will look like Hong Kong if you would do that

But are you praising socialists who want even more regulations and taxes? 

If greece defaults, the rest of the EU moves on, and continue what they been doing thats it.

Its a small country which they been lending bail out of money for years. They dont produce anything since its more based on a tourist attraction, and the people in greece are forced to move out on countries near by or where their family friends are located.

Unfortunately, it seems all of Varoufakis tricks are coming to an end. Tsipras has decreased his authority and now he will not be the main negotiator in the eurogroup.

like all crash ... they ramp to june or july, vote all security law and bankster freeze on august and then ... surprise append in september/october. 

Either that might happen or AMerica will just send in the Turks to take a few islands for free.. No one wants Greece to thrive and unfortunately I believe even the Greek people have acted too little too late because they were busy enjoying the lifestyle life on debt.  Ask this generation if they want to go and work in the fields? No way, they all wanna be singers and footballers now.. It's a shame..such a lovely country going to waste..I hope Tsipras can turn the country around and the People rally behind him. They really need that ministry of corruption to go into high gear and get all those relatives of Samaras on the lagard list.. If the Government gave me free land in Greece I would build crypto cooperatives all over Greece, am going to send them a whitepaper of my idea..see if anyone cotton's on..

Why not, sell every single terrirory, and privatize it. The age of governments is over, time to embrace real capitalism. Privatize everything!

There is no need for a plan B. The Greek government is still on track for its plan A:
Agree to any negotiation but never finalize anything. Start making silly claims (ww2 payments) yourself. In the mean time all of their personal assets are long safe. When finally nobody sends money to Greece anymore they'll go bankrupt.
Then tey'll blame it on everybody but thelselves.

Why they don't take on the chucrch ?
Why they don't take on the superwealthy Greek ?
Answer is easy, politicians from any party are very closely tied to both of those parties = corruption.

I don't believe privatization and selling off the islands would be a good choice, maybe leasing them out would be better to the Tourist trade but that's about it. We will see in June what happens when liquidity will run out. Varoufakis insisted there is no plan B although Soimble says otherwise..I am curious to see how it pans out and watching closely.

They just don't have the will to do it.
Countries have faced crises before and have come out of it. I don't see why Greece is making such a hue and cry about returning funds that they have borrowed.

Almost one in three Greek household had to make it through 2012 with an annual income below €7,000.

These shall be known as the good ole days in the not too distant future.

Selling a country's territory could cause a lot of implications. Greece already has a way to privatise islands in place but I doubt that this could be a way to erase part of the dept for many reasons. And the bureaucracy is one of them.