Topic: If Greece defaults - page 28. (Read 45224 times)

The question is, will it be days or weeks, or can the ECB release more money while hiding the fact, thus drag it out a month or two.

Why you think are not effective. Ofcourse they are. Ten years ago, no one in Greece and in many other countries, thought is totally normal to spend more then you produce. Now majority at least in Greece realized this.  Mental reforms were effective.

Greece has always been i dept but in the past 2 years it has got way to high and i can see bankruptcy coming soon.

I want Greece to do a nice phat Grexit..they can tell Germany pay Greece back for war reparations then we pay you back from what you owe us since WW2 for the loans you took from Greece called OCCUPATION LOANS..also all the gold reserve as well. Greece needs to start building its agrarian sector, get all the peeps out of the tavernas and all the universities..where they land up in debt and can't even get a job in mcdonalds after that  and get them ploughing in the fields, out of Athens and Thessalonika and back into the villages. Open ccoperatives so everyone who works can have a stake in the industries that will open once there is food security in place.  A village in China did it and they are all rich in that village..
If the Chinese can do it at the height of Communism so can Greeks, but they really need to change their mindset..we need a Grexit but with a fresh belief system..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHI8KzdpR8Q

Well there is only 1 thing that is better than democracy, and I believe the change point is gonna be in our lifetime, which is : Freedom

Yes, freedom =/= democracy, its far from it, but we are going toward that path. We have seen enough tyrants and dictators, its really time coming to be free.

Bitcoin is only a six-year old currency,  to be accepted by a country requires more time for credibility and confidence building.  a decade or two IMHO.  

The inflection point will come.  

He may very well be. The least we can do is allow him to take his own decisions.
He may be digging his own grave, but at least it is his choice.

The average person is a complete fucking retarded.

Still not sure about it. I have seen enough democracy. Don't want to be part of democracy now. It's making me die everyday.

As the saying goes, if you lend someone a little money, you have power over them. If you lend them a lot of money, they have power over you. 
Greece has a lot of power over the EU and world bank, because they have forced Greece into this stupid 'kick the can down the road' idea for the last 5 years, if and when Greece decides not to pay back the debt, they will have to answer for thei sub-prime lending!

I think it could happen today.  The whole situation is inevitable, hopefully someone has the guts to make it happen today, instead of after another 5 years of hurt for the Greek people.

Well dont get me wrong, its a relatively good thing compared to what was before.

Ancient Egypt: Slaves carried huge stones and were chained and whipped
Ancient Rome: Slaves could marry but they were bound to the household like servants and got no pay
Feudal Europe: Serfs could buy now land but only near their lord and they got payments but not much
Today: Serfs  today can work anywhere, but work 12 hours and the maffia government taxes them 70-80% (direct+indirect tax) and they are illusioned that every 4 year stamping on a fucking piece of paper is going to change society.

So it's better and better but not quite there yet don't you think?

You see, democracy is the best mirage among all the mirage. That's why most countries are moving towards it. Even, look at the Middle East Spring...they all are running for it.

I`m not communist bro, i`m voluntaryst/libertarian like Mike. I`m against democracy because it's just another scam of the tyrants to fool people into subjugating their individuality before the collective.

The tyrants always like to pull up mirages before their slaves to make them think they are free, when they are obviously not. Democracy is one of them. It's very far from freedom.

For freedom to be achieved the collective must be dismantled.

You underestimate the intelligence of people. 
In this globalized world, people can look at different countries and see how capitalist / socialist economies have fared. One of the reasons why communist regimes collapsed is that people realized life in capitalist countries was much better.

Its democracy, what did you expected. Every idiot who can put a stamp on a piece of paper can project his own insecurity and foolishness onto the other people, therefore every democracy will fail as a result.

You know my guess is that every fucking democracy on earn will end up leftist/socialist, because the ever growing debt thats accumulated by bribing voters, will result in a perpetual tax increase to pay off the interest on the bonds.

An ever increasing tax always hurts the middle class, the poors dont pay taxes they get subsidies and welfare, and the rich also dont pay coz they bribe the politicians.

So every democracy will eventually eliminate the middle class, and when it is eliminated the rich people flee the country, and only the poor is left so you need to steal from eachother through a socialist/communist regime.

Yes socialism is the deathbed state of democracy, and they will both fall eventually.

Greece will either shape up and pay back the money they owe, losing their sovereignty in the process to their debtors, or give up getting loans and segue into a centrally planned economy.  Neither are particularly positive for the Greeks but hey, you get what you voted for.

If they do the former, they can manage to pay off their debtors over a very long period of hard work and sacrifice, who can then pay off their own debtors, on and on.  If they do the latter, they're fucked long-term (see: Venezuela), and their debtors won't be able to repay the loans they owe to other nations, which reportedly will have a "domino effect" where more and more nations go under because the money they were hoping to get back from their loans will be completely gone.

Imagine loaning your friend 2000$ expecting a 2100$ return by the end of the month; however, instead of doing something with this money, your friend decides to live off it for a while and when it comes time to pay back, he asks you for another 2000$ and for the previous debt to be forgiven--he wants to be bailed out.  Foolishly you forgive this debt on the condition that he shape up and get his life together, so he agrees, you give him another 2000$ loan w/ interest, and when the end of the month comes, he again says he does not have the money and wants another bail-out.  You tell him to go fuck himself and if he doesn't come up with the money he owes you in another month he's gonna get his kneecaps blown to pieces (jk you just won't like him anymore and will stop giving him any more money.)  Your friend (loose use of the term anyway) is pretty upset but understands, he asks for some time to get the money together.  You say okay, and give him this time.  However, the guy you owe debt to is now knocking on your door asking for the money he lent you, with interest; you tell him that you'll have this money by the end of the month, when your friend pays you back.  He says okay and so the end of the month comes: your friend still doesn't have the money and is now telling you to go fuck yourself, you capitalist pig you.  The guy you owe money to is now in the hole as well; he tells you that if you don't pay him back, he's never gonna loan money to you ever again.

Thing is, you really need this money your debtor has been lending to you, you are dependent in some way on these loans; if he stops lending you money, you're completely fucked, too.  Tensions rise: you start banging on your friend's door demanding he pay back what is owed to you, but he has no money; he has resorted to living in a commune with a bunch of stoners who are broke as broke can be, and they all laugh at you for giving any of them any money you freaking moron.  You can't pay back the guy you owe money to; your livelihood is at stake to some degree; you may have to lower your quality of life and get into further debt with someone else, assuming you can find anyone who will lend to a man who won't pay his loans back (check out the lending subforum for what this looks like.)  The guy who you owe money to can no longer pay the guy he owes; he, too, is completely fucked.  This guy also has a guy he owes money to; that guy, you can probably guess, is completely fucked too.  That's the domino effect: everyone's getting fucked because someone down the line was a lazy douche.  Not everyone gets affected; some people can survive without the loans, but others are totally dependent on them and will be in a heap of shit if they can't keep getting those loans.

If Greece defaults, other nations may also default, and depending on how much they needed those loans to sustain their way of life (political favors and whatnot; welfare ain't free kiddos), this can be a massive issue for economies and political entities the world over, since everyone and their moms are in debt nowadays.  Not necessarily a bad thing; maybe it'll be a wakeup call for people to take control over their money and stop letting politicians and banks play with it.  Anyway, someone's bound to die from it all; someone always dies from something this massive.

I don't think that Greece should get more time to pay off the debt because there is no point to waste more time, Greece will never repay its debt and it will probably default soon as s country.

Only by loaning MORE money to a Bankrupt, can the Emperor keep the illusion he is not naked.  Can Greece possbily repay the original terms of the loan.  NO.   What will happen.   Some one will screw up and push the other side too far.  Will it be the EU or GREECE.  Don't matter, the consequences are the same and if fact still the same to the West if Greece is pushed into the East/Eurasian/Bricky camp of Russia, China, et al.

I seriously doubt Greece will end up defaulting.  Despite the hard-lined stance their leadership has tried to portray these past few weeks I have a sneaking suspicion that they will end up capitulating in the end.  Don't they all?

You can be sure that bondholders will go to court with the argument that any kind of haircut is indeed a default. The CDS sellers sold the bondholders protection against Greek defaulting. No reason why they shouldn't be made to pay.