Greece will not actually default. There's too much to lose for German, French, Austrian, and other banks for that to happen. What may occur instead is a 'haircut' or 'easing' or some other weak weasel word so that credit default swaps are not triggered. It won't be a default but a 'financial restructuring', or a 'temporary fiscal moderation'.
The rest of Europe is happy to keep helping Greece pay its debt by driving Greece further into debt. If it wasn't so insane it would be funny.
Topic: If Greece defaults - page 29. (Read 45250 times)
Have fun finding a solution that isn't basic welfare for the massive permanent unemployment due technological automation destroying more jobs than new jobs can be created that is going to be exponential forever.
Yes sure its never the regulation and the socialist welfare taxes that destroy jobs but always the nasty capitalists.
You live in a fantasy, capitalists create jobs, socialists steal the money earned there by hard working people!
The Euro is as flawed as the USD today, its part of the same rotten construct.
So don't jawbone about Greece until the cows come home.
Greece is nothing, the geoplolitics of financial war and reset vital to THREE generations of first world people IS the real agenda.
And that is more than some piddling principle on which people start frothing at the mouth.
Haircuts are invevitable and they will be painful for all.
So don't jawbone about Greece until the cows come home.
Greece is nothing, the geoplolitics of financial war and reset vital to THREE generations of first world people IS the real agenda.
And that is more than some piddling principle on which people start frothing at the mouth.
Haircuts are invevitable and they will be painful for all.
It's really time to end socialism and communism dont you think its been far too long...
It's economically impossible to sustain this ponzi scheme of welfare states, time to move on
Have fun finding a solution that isn't basic welfare for the massive permanent unemployment due technological automation destroying more jobs than new jobs can be created that is going to be exponential forever.
The Euro is as flawed as the USD today, its part of the same rotten construct.
So don't jawbone about Greece until the cows come home.
Greece is nothing, the geoplolitics of financial war and reset vital to THREE generations of first world people IS the real agenda.
And that is more than some piddling principle on which people start frothing at the mouth.
Haircuts are invevitable and they will be painful for all.
So don't jawbone about Greece until the cows come home.
Greece is nothing, the geoplolitics of financial war and reset vital to THREE generations of first world people IS the real agenda.
And that is more than some piddling principle on which people start frothing at the mouth.
Haircuts are invevitable and they will be painful for all.
It's really time to end socialism and communism dont you think its been far too long...
It's economically impossible to sustain this ponzi scheme of welfare states, time to move on
It is not exactly the ponzi scheme of welfare states. As you can see there are couple of welfare states that are doing exceptionally well, for example look at Scandinavia as a whole. Countries like Norway or Sweden are considered to be prime examples of great working welfare states. People who lives there are happy to be there and happy to pay high taxes to sustain that model of state. There is a problem when too many people are trying to exploit freebies of welfare states like Greeks did in the past.
The Euro is as flawed as the USD today, its part of the same rotten construct.
So don't jawbone about Greece until the cows come home.
Greece is nothing, the geoplolitics of financial war and reset vital to THREE generations of first world people IS the real agenda.
And that is more than some piddling principle on which people start frothing at the mouth.
Haircuts are invevitable and they will be painful for all.
So don't jawbone about Greece until the cows come home.
Greece is nothing, the geoplolitics of financial war and reset vital to THREE generations of first world people IS the real agenda.
And that is more than some piddling principle on which people start frothing at the mouth.
Haircuts are invevitable and they will be painful for all.
It's really time to end socialism and communism dont you think its been far too long...
It's economically impossible to sustain this ponzi scheme of welfare states, time to move on
We have €448m to the International Monetary Fund is due this Thursday (April 9th).
Then we have public sector wages and pensions, €1.7b in social security payments made by the state (April 14th).
Then we have a €200m loan repayment to the IMF (May 1st).
Now correct me if I am wrong, but if Greece cant pay any of these 3 bills we are talking about the first "western modern" country to be technically in default. If they resort back to the Drachma, it will be one of the most worthless currencies on the planet.
What I cant really figure out is the outcome, both worldwide financially against the Euro, and obviously against Bitcoin. Will we see BTC as safe heaven? Something tells me only a little, because the average Greek is not highly IT literate, but I could be wrong here.
Give me your thoughts people, as this goes down in about 3 days from now!
Then we have public sector wages and pensions, €1.7b in social security payments made by the state (April 14th).
Then we have a €200m loan repayment to the IMF (May 1st).
Now correct me if I am wrong, but if Greece cant pay any of these 3 bills we are talking about the first "western modern" country to be technically in default. If they resort back to the Drachma, it will be one of the most worthless currencies on the planet.
What I cant really figure out is the outcome, both worldwide financially against the Euro, and obviously against Bitcoin. Will we see BTC as safe heaven? Something tells me only a little, because the average Greek is not highly IT literate, but I could be wrong here.
Give me your thoughts people, as this goes down in about 3 days from now!
Nobody will default nowadays, because it will bring down the whole system, even if they want, they wont let them.
They will just print themselves out of all troubles!
Greece is positioned in a very strategic position. It would not benefit the U.S if there was a Grexit so this battle has higher powers..Greece is actually in a great position to pick and choose it's allies. It doesn't even need to grovel to the Eurozone for mercy. We always know the Media likes to hyper inflate news to get good ratings. There are powers also that want do demolish the Leftist Government of SYRIZA but the People are too strong and it has Big Friends too..Russia and China.. 
.. The do want to stay in Europe but they want to get the message across, Greece wants to be a apart of Europe but at the same time keep it's sovereignty intact and to fight corruption and tax evasion from within.
Im just thinking that if they do become allies with Russia and China, they'll become Russia and China's bitch. It's an exchange of who you owe stuff to. Their situation is not easy at all, debts always have to be paid. .. The do want to stay in Europe but they want to get the message across, Greece wants to be a apart of Europe but at the same time keep it's sovereignty intact and to fight corruption and tax evasion from within.
Greece is positioned in a very strategic position. It would not benefit the U.S if there was a Grexit so this battle has higher powers..Greece is actually in a great position to pick and choose it's allies. It doesn't even need to grovel to the Eurozone for mercy. We always know the Media likes to hyper inflate news to get good ratings. There are powers also that want do demolish the Leftist Government of SYRIZA but the People are too strong and it has Big Friends too..Russia and China.. .. The do want to stay in Europe but they want to get the message across, Greece wants to be a apart of Europe but at the same time keep it's sovereignty intact and to fight corruption and tax evasion from within.
.. The do want to stay in Europe but they want to get the message across, Greece wants to be a apart of Europe but at the same time keep it's sovereignty intact and to fight corruption and tax evasion from within. They certainly do not need to. But it's wether it will be more painful to continue the current path or strike out for instant pain and faster recovery. I'm very interested to see what the ultimate outcome will be. As an earlier post wrote, it's also about setting a precedent for the situation.
Either Greece should be given more time to pay back its debt, or it should be written off. It is painful to continue the current path, when a large part of the population can't even afford their basic needs.
I think that media is doing Greece a favor actually. Why? because people is going to react and work on ways for paying the debt, they will have to fix it one way or the other. It means they have to change a lot of things, not only in the government, but everyone has to change, from lazy couch potatoes to smart hard workers. In my country we had total economic devastation during the 1990s, the government made radical decisions and everyone had to work hard to restore the economy, we used to owe 30k million US$, 20 years after we now lend money to poor countries. A miracle called Peru!
In short, just let it go as deep as Greece people need to realize that the solution requires of everyone participation.
In short, just let it go as deep as Greece people need to realize that the solution requires of everyone participation.
That is an incredibly collectivist lens to view this situation through. I assume you are referring to Fujimori- his reforms were not miraculous (though they might seem so considering Peru's politcal history), simply reversing some of the collectivist madness that Peru had suffered up until then, many of his style of reforms will probably not be enacted in Greece any time soon. The Greeks likely feel cheated and resentful of the financial system that has allowed their government to mire themselves in this situation, there may be a will to work but the majority of young Greeks with any initiative have or will be trying to leave their home country.
I disagree with your collectivist viewpoint that everyone needs to pitch in for something that they really didn't understand or truly have a say in, but I agree that change will come when maximum pain is reached.
I think that media is doing Greece a favor actually. Why? because people is going to react and work on ways for paying the debt, they will have to fix it one way or the other. It means they have to change a lot of things, not only in the government, but everyone has to change, from lazy couch potatoes to smart hard workers. In my country we had total economic devastation during the 1990s, the government made radical decisions and everyone had to work hard to restore the economy, we used to owe 30k million US$, 20 years after we now lend money to poor countries. A miracle called Peru!
In short, just let it go as deep as Greece people need to realize that the solution requires of everyone participation.
In short, just let it go as deep as Greece people need to realize that the solution requires of everyone participation.
€448 million is not a huge amount for a country with 11 million people. But it needs to be seen whether they are willing to pay or not. Many in the governing coalition feels that these debts were created as a result of banker manipulation and Greece does not need to pay them back.
They certainly do not need to. But it's wether it will be more painful to continue the current path or strike out for instant pain and faster recovery. I'm very interested to see what the ultimate outcome will be. As an earlier post wrote, it's also about setting a precedent for the situation.
€448 million is not a huge amount for a country with 11 million people. But it needs to be seen whether they are willing to pay or not. Many in the governing coalition feels that these debts were created as a result of banker manipulation and Greece does not need to pay them back.
What they should do, is accept the fact that they are bancrupt (insolvent, not only illiquid), clear out the debt and start over. But they (probably) dare not do that.
Exactly, they are between a rock and a hard place. Only when the pain becomes unbearable will the option of default become a possible reality. The western banks are fighting tooth and nail against a possible restructuring, it's ironic considering Greece's financial history of defaults. I'm not familiar with the government as I should be to comment, but my understanding is that there is not much real will to reform in Greece- I suppose far too many people are dependant on the state.
Greece will default. It can be drawn out some time only if the EU can find undercover ways to lend them money. IMF will give them a few weeks peace before they send the damning letter.
Greece will give their government workers and pensioners a letter of debt in stead of wages and pensions. When they complain that they need to eat, that will be changed to sheets of papers with an amount of euros written on them, these can be used for payments, but with a discount. After a while, they will print proper money notes and call them drakmas, and they have their own money. The government can steal value from the holders of drakmas by printing more. They can only do that a short time before the drakmas go down, amounting to a few billion euros in value, maybe 5. After that, they will construct the new drakma. Many people will suffer losses. Anyway, this is the most probable chain of events.
What they should do, is accept the fact that they are bancrupt (insolvent, not only illiquid), clear out the debt and start over. But they (probably) dare not do that.
Greece will give their government workers and pensioners a letter of debt in stead of wages and pensions. When they complain that they need to eat, that will be changed to sheets of papers with an amount of euros written on them, these can be used for payments, but with a discount. After a while, they will print proper money notes and call them drakmas, and they have their own money. The government can steal value from the holders of drakmas by printing more. They can only do that a short time before the drakmas go down, amounting to a few billion euros in value, maybe 5. After that, they will construct the new drakma. Many people will suffer losses. Anyway, this is the most probable chain of events.
What they should do, is accept the fact that they are bancrupt (insolvent, not only illiquid), clear out the debt and start over. But they (probably) dare not do that.
no one is going to be carrying physical gold and silver to pay in shops.
how will people buy things over the internet with metals? they'll have to have gold banks which i doubt anyone will trust after a default.
bitcoin is the obvious answer but most people are too stupid to realize it.
how will people buy things over the internet with metals? they'll have to have gold banks which i doubt anyone will trust after a default.
bitcoin is the obvious answer but most people are too stupid to realize it.
Metals would be the best bet. Bitcoin is a good idea but as you have said you have to be pretty good with tech to use it 
.
.
I agree with many other posters. Greece will not default (any time soon), but will have to either have the debts restructured at some point in the future or default is a certainty further down the line. The current political class were elected in to play hard ball with the EU. If it goes wrong, the next successful government will be the ones that run on the platform of grexit. But Greece will have to go through more pain for that to be a reality IMO.
Remember that most of the money is being recycled straight back to Western banks. It's in the EU's (vested) interest to keep the can kicking going for as long as possible.
It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
Remember that most of the money is being recycled straight back to Western banks. It's in the EU's (vested) interest to keep the can kicking going for as long as possible.
It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
I think the Greece default if it really happens by right only have very little impact on the Eurozone considering the size of its economy. But the problem that lies within is the pressure coming from the currency traders and speculators that seems to pile up the pressure and outright sell the currency. I can't say what would be the impact on bitcoin. If the majority of greeks are tech savvy they should see the potential on what bitcoin offers in the first place.
We have €448m to the International Monetary Fund is due this Thursday (April 9th).
Then we have public sector wages and pensions, €1.7b in social security payments made by the state (April 14th).
Then we have a €200m loan repayment to the IMF (May 1st).
Now correct me if I am wrong, but if Greece cant pay any of these 3 bills we are talking about the first "western modern" country to be technically in default. If they resort back to the Drachma, it will be one of the most worthless currencies on the planet.
What I cant really figure out is the outcome, both worldwide financially against the Euro, and obviously against Bitcoin. Will we see BTC as safe heaven? Something tells me only a little, because the average Greek is not highly IT literate, but I could be wrong here.
Give me your thoughts people, as this goes down in about 3 days from now!
Then we have public sector wages and pensions, €1.7b in social security payments made by the state (April 14th).
Then we have a €200m loan repayment to the IMF (May 1st).
Now correct me if I am wrong, but if Greece cant pay any of these 3 bills we are talking about the first "western modern" country to be technically in default. If they resort back to the Drachma, it will be one of the most worthless currencies on the planet.
What I cant really figure out is the outcome, both worldwide financially against the Euro, and obviously against Bitcoin. Will we see BTC as safe heaven? Something tells me only a little, because the average Greek is not highly IT literate, but I could be wrong here.
Give me your thoughts people, as this goes down in about 3 days from now!
Actually Greece will not default. Politicians will find a solution again to give Greece more money.
Right now Greece plays hard, having discussions with China and Russia. This way they will either force EU to be more "merciful" with them, either will get a loan from China giving them something EU will not like.
stakes are way too high to let greece default. as you say it is more likely that they will find a solution. but the only solution they have is giving them more money. this won't stop. it will cost the tax payers billions in the comming years.
Jump to: