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Topic: IF the NSA wanted to take control over Bitcoin, how would they do it? - page 5. (Read 5943 times)

newbie
Activity: 29
Merit: 0
Wow, sorry for your loss bro Sad
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1136
All paid signature campaigns should be banned.
Don't know about the NSA but here is how "Homeland Security" and the "Justice" department do it:

1) Find a person trading Bitcoins

2) Investigate that person for 18 months, get all their bank records, all their text messages (including all the deleted ones) from their cell phone carrier, and try to build a case, even the flimsiest pretense of a case will do

3) Put a tracker on their car and follow all their movements for 45 days to try to locate all their secret stashes of Bitcoins and cash

4) No matter how flimsy a case take it to a rubber stamping grand jury and use the patriot act to get SEALED search warrants, SEALED arrest warrants, and SEALED indictments and be sure to SEAL all the grand jury testimony (SEALED is key here so you can lie all you want to and no one will ever be able to find out what lies you said in order to convince the grand jury you had a case)

5) CRITICAL:  make sure the indictment is for a charge which allows civil asset forfeiture to attach

6) Arrest them, take everything of value you can get your grubby hands on:  all their personal and business computers, all their Bitcoins and cash, even their daughter’s piggy bank containing her birthday and Christmas gift money

7) Throw them in solitary confinement in a Federal holding facility for a few days to soften them up

Cool Offer to let them go and give them their stuff back if they pay a large sum of cash and Bitcoins to the Federal asset forfeiture slush fund

9) Use the money stolen in step Cool to go to step 1), rinse and repeat

Read all about it here:  
http://www.burtw.com
http://www.jmwagner.com
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/follow-the-bitcoins-taken-from-me-by-homeland-security-1182005
(and many other threads here on this forum)
legendary
Activity: 3416
Merit: 1142
Ιntergalactic Conciliator
fork it with Classic...
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1368
They would borrow huge sums of money from the Federal Reserve Bank, and buy all the bitcoins up.

Cool
newbie
Activity: 45
Merit: 0
^^USD is a world reserve currency, and NSA can just ask their bankster puppet masters to print up as much as they need right out of thin air?
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 520
I don't actually think it is possible even for the NSA to control bitcoin. From my understanding, the only way of controlling Bitcoin was to successfully implement a 51% attack, and that this point it would cost trillions of dollars just to do that.

You're telling me miners have trillions invested in their gear? Shocked
Well, I think he might be saying that they would spend hundreds of millions of dollars to try and get 51% of the network, but it might go beyond that if miners constantly buy to scale along with the added hashing power of the NSA.

Definitely won't cost a sizeable portion of the US debt though.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
I don't actually think it is possible even for the NSA to control bitcoin. From my understanding, the only way of controlling Bitcoin was to successfully implement a 51% attack, and that this point it would cost trillions of dollars just to do that.

You're telling me miners have trillions invested in their gear? Shocked
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1027
I don't actually think it is possible even for the NSA to control bitcoin. From my understanding, the only way of controlling Bitcoin was to successfully implement a 51% attack, and that this point it would cost trillions of dollars just to do that. So, other than that was to try to flood the network with spammy transactions making the network very slow and ultimately starting to fail. I don't really think that is possible...
Or else They would need to shut off the internet of pull out the power lever all over the world. Do you think the powers that be would be willing to do that just to kill bitcoin?
AGD
legendary
Activity: 2069
Merit: 1164
Keeper of the Private Key
Some historical stuff:
http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/money/nsamint/nsamint.htm

Quote
HOW TO MAKE A MINT: THE CRYPTOGRAPHY OF ANONYMOUS ELECTRONIC CASH

Laurie Law, Susan Sabett, Jerry Solinas

National Security Agency Office of Information Security Research and Technology

Cryptology Division

18 June 1996

and

https://realcurrencies.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/is-the-national-security-agency-behind-bitcoin/

Quote
Conclusion
Even today it’s too early to come to conclusions about Bitcoin. Perhaps it’s still a well-intentioned try, destined to failure by its faulty design, or destroyed by the agencies. Or it was designed from day one as a tool to help maintain control of the money supplies of the world.

But it is amazing how the NSA report addresses the ‘need’ for privacy with transactions as the main monetary issue, ignoring all the far, far more important problems we have with our money, and how Bitcoin answers exactly the challenge put forward.

Knowing the ways these people think and operate, this NSA report basically puts to rest the notion that Bitcoin was a completely innocent ‘free market’ or ‘human action’ kind of thing to begin with.


edit

Quote
Bitcoin architecture
The NSA report goes deeply into the challenges a crypto currency faces and lists the various security and implicated regulatory risks. Both from the point of view from regulators and developers of such schemes.

Amazingly, a key writer of the report is called Tatsuaki Okamoto. In the Bitcoin community this has been picked up as remarkably similar to Satoshi Nakamoto, the pseudonym of the enigmatic developer of Bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 3431
Merit: 1233
I'd prefer to be controlled by the US or EU (my personal "big brother" fave btw) rather than China
I don't want to be controlled by anyone but if its inevitable I'd prefer China. US and EU is one and the same. EU is a subsidiary of US when it comes to control and surveillance.
AGD
legendary
Activity: 2069
Merit: 1164
Keeper of the Private Key
Assuming that there are several forces with different political agendas, which could compete in controlling Bitcoin core and I could make a vote, I'd prefer to be controlled by the US or EU (my personal "big brother" fave btw) rather than China (edit: or Russia, North-Korea, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Jordania or whatever). Just my personal opinion.
copper member
Activity: 1442
Merit: 529
I hope in the Chinese don't let NSA or CIA to make a 51% network attack, as they will be losing the most in this situation. Still why would NSA want to block Bitcoin? For now its not a threat but maybe in future if Bitcoin goes mainstream, then if its not by the government its not legal by definition may really take place as a situation.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
Shit, did I leave the stove on?
Not going to happen.  They would have to deal with the Chinese on this and this is an American agency.  The good part about bitcoin is that it is global and there is no global agency that can take control of it.

But an agency backed by the government surely has the resources to build a supercomputer that can do a 51% attack on the Bitcoin network. The Chinese have most of the hashing power only because the electricity there is very cheap but that doesn't mean any other country in the world couldn't emulate the Chinese mining farms hashing power. Bitcoin has no headquarters anywhere in the world but it still is dependent on the Internet to function.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1012
vertex output parameter not completely initialized
I think they would start by buying a bitcointalk member account (at least hero level) and making a post asking for ideas... something like "How could NSA take control over Bitcoin?"  Smiley
hahaha  Cheesy
AGD
legendary
Activity: 2069
Merit: 1164
Keeper of the Private Key
Still, my question remains:
Quote
Are core devs discussing this possiblility of a large scale infiltration and how to avoid?
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
The figures build on previous statements from the agency regarding cryptocurrencies as a key factor in the development of the so-called "crime-as-a-service" ecosystem."
This is the way it is supposed to be. Every service that is not under government control is a crime. Bitcoin separates money from state. It is a crime by definition!

You're misattributing. Fix pl0x.
legendary
Activity: 3431
Merit: 1233
The figures build on previous statements from the agency regarding cryptocurrencies as a key factor in the development of the so-called "crime-as-a-service" ecosystem."
This is the way it is supposed to be. Every service that is not under government control is a crime. Bitcoin separates money from state. It is a crime by definition!
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
When was the last time you audited the code? Do you even code? And sure, devs have much more control than everyone.
It has been months since I looked at it closely. I compile from source but it's true that I don't check every distro. I also know C++ but I'm not good enough to call myself a coder and do relie on the community to discover malicious code  to some degree.

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You think NSA can't raise millions, billions, or trillions of dollars? You think NSA is poor? The sort of money needed to buy out the miners is probably in their petty cash drawer Smiley
They struggle to make their budget like every other agency. While they have big money they also have huge expenses. The annual budget is about 11 Billion. They are not stupid and anyone proposing to spend 10% of the budget on an operation with no logical purpose will be looking for a job soon.
Quote
It would not require every provider, just your provider. Also see the Great Chinese Firewall, Easily done on nationwide level.
Then my new provider in Panama gets the worm. China may be a different story. They are a totalitarian state and could do whatever they want to their people.
Quote
Please. You really think American people accept strip-searches before boarding a plane, no smoking in bars, but will somehow revolt when the currency already responsible for 40% of criminal payments on the internet Shocked gets banned? Just lol.
I fly all the time and have never been strip searched, and I commute from the middle east. They do not support a strip search and that is why it is not happening.
Banning smoking in bars was a decision by society because few people smoke anymore. It doesn't bother me, but most people support the ban. When most Americans smoked it was unthinkable to have such a rule.
Now where did you come up with this 40% figure?

So you don't think NSA can raise a few million bucks? Just lol.

Re. not having been strip searched: I have. Had a coin in my pocket. NY to LA flight.

Re. 40%: "Europol said that, according to its data, bitcoin accounts for as much as 40% of criminal-to-criminal payments online, with PayPal accounting for 25% of those reported. The figures build on previous statements from the agency regarding cryptocurrencies as a key factor in the development of the so-called "crime-as-a-service" ecosystem." -- http://www.coindesk.com/europol-bitcoin-european-cybercriminals/
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
When was the last time you audited the code? Do you even code? And sure, devs have much more control than everyone.
It has been months since I looked at it closely. I compile from source but it's true that I don't check every distro. I also know C++ but I'm not good enough to call myself a coder and do relie on the community to discover malicious code  to some degree.

Quote
You think NSA can't raise millions, billions, or trillions of dollars? You think NSA is poor? The sort of money needed to buy out the miners is probably in their petty cash drawer Smiley
They struggle to make their budget like every other agency. While they have big money they also have huge expenses. The annual budget is about 11 Billion. They are not stupid and anyone proposing to spend 10% of the budget on an operation with no logical purpose will be looking for a job soon.
Quote
It would not require every provider, just your provider. Also see the Great Chinese Firewall, Easily done on nationwide level.
Then my new provider in Panama gets the worm. China may be a different story. They are a totalitarian state and could do whatever they want to their people.
Quote
Please. You really think American people accept strip-searches before boarding a plane, no smoking in bars, but will somehow revolt when the currency already responsible for 40% of criminal payments on the internet Shocked gets banned? Just lol.
I fly all the time and have never been strip searched, and I commute from the middle east. They do not support a strip search and that is why it is not happening.
Banning smoking in bars was a decision by society because few people smoke anymore. It doesn't bother me, but most people support the ban. When most Americans smoked it was unthinkable to have such a rule.
Now where did you come up with this 40% figure?
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
Not going to happen.  They would have to deal with the Chinese on this and this is an American agency.  The good part about bitcoin is that it is global and there is no global agency that can take control of it.
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