Topic: I'm Kevin, here's my side. - page 18. (Read 258592 times)
If the dealer could prove he didnt know the car was stolen, he likely wouldnt go to jail.
You people making the stolen property analogies are leaving out one critical factor. The middleman.
Let's say you go to a used car dealer, and you purchase a vehicle. Later it comes to light that the car was stolen. Would you then give the vehicle back? No. You wouldnt. The dealer would be responsible. Simple as that.
Let's say you go to a used car dealer, and you purchase a vehicle. Later it comes to light that the car was stolen. Would you then give the vehicle back? No. You wouldnt. The dealer would be responsible. Simple as that.
No, you'd lose the car, You'd be lucky to get your money back, and the dealer would go to jail for receiving and selling stolen property.
I'd say Kevin is getting off easy here, he's getting all his money back, and may end up +643 BTC.
I had around $3000 USD in the account before this started. They valued the bitcoins I received at $1000 when they were sent. I still had a positive cash balance when trading was halted, too. Both of us could be making demands of each other right now, and I don't think that's in our best interests.
I don't wanna argue the case with you.
all I'm saying: public statements when you MIGHT get sued are never a good idea, especially when you have nothing to gain.
toasty, just take the money and run I bet mt.gox would do the same if given half the chance.
You people making the stolen property analogies are leaving out one critical factor. The middleman.
Let's say you go to a used car dealer, and you purchase a vehicle. Later it comes to light that the car was stolen. Would you then give the vehicle back? No. You wouldnt. The dealer would be responsible. Simple as that. The dealer would have to re-imburse either the original victim, or give the car back and re-coup the buyer. It doesnt matter what price the car was, if I bought it for 5 dollars, it was an agreement made with a professional organization who decided to get into the business of selling these things.
Let's say you go to a used car dealer, and you purchase a vehicle. Later it comes to light that the car was stolen. Would you then give the vehicle back? No. You wouldnt. The dealer would be responsible. Simple as that. The dealer would have to re-imburse either the original victim, or give the car back and re-coup the buyer. It doesnt matter what price the car was, if I bought it for 5 dollars, it was an agreement made with a professional organization who decided to get into the business of selling these things.
It's quite possible that the person who was hacked still has no idea that it was them. For all we know, they were asleep when this happened and didn't have email notifications enabled. There's no way for them to login to MtGox to check.
Also: If you had this kind of money on MtGox, would you admit it? Although the user database was leaked, the balance sheet WASN'T. They'd quickly become a target on other sites if people knew what account's password they specifically had to crack to make big bucks.
Also: If you had this kind of money on MtGox, would you admit it? Although the user database was leaked, the balance sheet WASN'T. They'd quickly become a target on other sites if people knew what account's password they specifically had to crack to make big bucks.
If either of us tried that, it would be like scorching the earth behind us. There are very few actions any of us can take that won't cause huge disruptions.
I wouldn't rule out that you'll get sued for the 643.
it's just a matter of their "professionalism", if they have the means to pull off a lawsuit in another country or just 3 people in a basement.
if I was in your shoes I'd just shut up.
I had around $3000 USD in the account before this started. They valued the bitcoins I received at $1000 when they were sent. I still had a positive cash balance when trading was halted, too. Both of us could be making demands of each other right now, and I don't think that's in our best interests.
Kevin, are you going to join the chat on OnlyOneTV tonight? That will be more enlightening than last night's show. (Where all we learned was that the auditor was a "she")
My 2 cents. I say that Kevin keep the trade. I then say press charges on Kevin for reciept of stolen property. Its clear that he knows its stolen, now.
If I sell you a stolen gun so you may protect your home and you use it to shoot an intruder, do you think that you wont be charged with mere possession of stolen property? Of course you would. If you bought a stolen car and didnt know it was stolen and you got stop by the police do you think you would be going to jail? Of course you would. Even if your only the passenger. The law (in the USA) doesnt care if you knew the item in question was stolen. It only cares that it is merely in the possession.
So Kevin, I have some questions for you.
1) If your car was stolen and resold 10 times, would you still want your car back?
2) How long of a jail term is worth the btc you bought?
With that said, MtGox does have some culpability. You might look into getting a layer, but most layers will want payment upfront.
If it were me, I would have little issue returning the btc, tho it might be painful, I know I would want my stolen items back.
If I sell you a stolen gun so you may protect your home and you use it to shoot an intruder, do you think that you wont be charged with mere possession of stolen property? Of course you would. If you bought a stolen car and didnt know it was stolen and you got stop by the police do you think you would be going to jail? Of course you would. Even if your only the passenger. The law (in the USA) doesnt care if you knew the item in question was stolen. It only cares that it is merely in the possession.
So Kevin, I have some questions for you.
1) If your car was stolen and resold 10 times, would you still want your car back?
2) How long of a jail term is worth the btc you bought?
With that said, MtGox does have some culpability. You might look into getting a layer, but most layers will want payment upfront.
If it were me, I would have little issue returning the btc, tho it might be painful, I know I would want my stolen items back.
If either of us tried that, it would be like scorching the earth behind us. There are very few actions any of us can take that won't cause huge disruptions.
I wouldn't rule out that you'll get sued for the 643.
it's just a matter of their "professionalism", if they have the means to pull off a lawsuit in another country or just 3 people in a basement.
if I was in your shoes I'd just shut up.
Lol, the 643 the dude "stole" aren't his.
If you buy a TV from a thief, the TV is still not yours and you don't get your money back, if the TV is found.
Similarly, If someone steals YOUR TV and sells it to your neighbor, you're not going to throw your hands up in the air and say "ohhhh! you're right. you own it now!! how stupid of me"
If you buy a TV from a thief, the TV is still not yours and you don't get your money back, if the TV is found.
Similarly, If someone steals YOUR TV and sells it to your neighbor, you're not going to throw your hands up in the air and say "ohhhh! you're right. you own it now!! how stupid of me"
The problem is, that's the story they're trying to tell, but have offered no proof of any "theft" happening, want to play police and fix it themselves, and their story has holes in it. Their solution screws over many, and the problem was one they allowed to happen.
Also, nobody tracked me down. I identified myself immediately to MagicalTux the moment he was active on IRC.
Have no doubt... MtGox will use the full weight of civil and criminal law to retrieve what it believes it is owed. Cutting off communication with you is the first legal step.
They haven't even asked me to return those coins. You are generally required to pursue things out of the legal system first, and only use it as a last resort.
The problem is, that's the story they're trying to tell, but have offered no proof of any "theft" happening, want to play police and fix it themselves, and their story has holes in it. Their solution screws over many, and the problem was one they allowed to happen.
Also, nobody tracked me down. I identified myself immediately to MagicalTux the moment he was active on IRC.
Have no doubt... MtGox will use the full weight of civil and criminal law to retrieve what it believes it is owed. Cutting off communication with you is the first legal step.
Lol, I love you people like brothers. You are the light of my life until I get bored here.
I just, can;t express what joy you bring to my life with your innocence.
It's like a pack of fucking kittens up in here.
toasty, you, and many others, underestimate resilience of Bitcoin and overestimate it's dependence on mtgox. I mean medium and long term.
+1
The problem is, that's the story they're trying to tell, but have offered no proof of any "theft" happening, want to play police and fix it themselves, and their story has holes in it. Their solution screws over many, and the problem was one they allowed to happen.
Also, nobody tracked me down. I identified myself immediately to MagicalTux the moment he was active on IRC.
Have no doubt... MtGox will use the full weight of civil and criminal law to retrieve what it believes it is owed. Cutting off communication with you is the first legal step.
Edit: Never mind I got the decimal place wrong I thought you withdrew 64,300 not 643 BTC. 643 BTC is not enough money to get lawyers involved.
Edit: Ops MagicalTux thinks you are involved w/ the hacking..... GET A LAWYER!!!!!!!
1. MtGox will do whatever they want.
2. Numbers displayed on their website are not trades.
3. Nobody will sue MtGox, because who here can write a lawsuit in hiragana.
4. Bitcoins are not currency and formally have no value. Your wallet with bitcoins is just a file filled with some bits on your computer. Mr policeman, someone stole by bits! They really were here i swear. They were worth $20 each.
Okay everything is gonna be all right. Here put on the jacket we have for you.
2. Numbers displayed on their website are not trades.
3. Nobody will sue MtGox, because who here can write a lawsuit in hiragana.
4. Bitcoins are not currency and formally have no value. Your wallet with bitcoins is just a file filled with some bits on your computer. Mr policeman, someone stole by bits! They really were here i swear. They were worth $20 each.
Okay everything is gonna be all right. Here put on the jacket we have for you.
WTF??? why does everyone keep thinking that it was one users bitcoins that were stolen?
It was definitely all our bitcoins that mtgox had in one account!
I remember a few days before, people saying that some big bitcoin movements on bitcoin monitor were from mtgox, and the quantity being moved was around 400 000 to 500 000 bitcoins.
No single user lost that quantity, it was our coins, from all of us!
It was definitely all our bitcoins that mtgox had in one account!
I remember a few days before, people saying that some big bitcoin movements on bitcoin monitor were from mtgox, and the quantity being moved was around 400 000 to 500 000 bitcoins.
No single user lost that quantity, it was our coins, from all of us!
I just wanna say: Everyone who is saying he stole that 643 btc... Shut up, youre just jelly.
This is all a bunch of bullshit.
Kevin stepped up. Now it's time for the bitcoin loser to step up, and if no bitcoin loser shows to claim the loss, then it was Mt Gox all this time. Who owned the 500,000 bitcoins?
I think it was Mt Gox!
They either owned them first, or stole them and then tried to sell off, and buy back, but Kevin got half of them. Who else got the others, exactly in their orders? Could it have been Mt Gox that got many of them?
Kevin stepped up. Now it's time for the bitcoin loser to step up, and if no bitcoin loser shows to claim the loss, then it was Mt Gox all this time. Who owned the 500,000 bitcoins?
I think it was Mt Gox!
They either owned them first, or stole them and then tried to sell off, and buy back, but Kevin got half of them. Who else got the others, exactly in their orders? Could it have been Mt Gox that got many of them?
And isn't it odd that no-one has steeped up to comment about this?
I guess that's the power of bitcoin, all anonymous and shit.
Could have been Al Quaida, or some REALLY prolific child pornography collector...
Who knows?
Could have been an abandoned account from when bitcoins were worth $0.01c that was just forgotten about...
BUT TAKE IT TO COURT, BEST ADVICE.
Shit, it could have been you. Considering how anti-bitcoin you have been, I think you are the hacker.
Prove me wrong, conspiracies activate.
You got me.
Come claim your prize, 10 billion Linden Do...I mean Floo...I mean Tuli...I mean Bitcoins.
My guess is that the selling account that was hacked was the mtgox owner's account itself. If you're thinking along those lines that should answer a few questions.
Who has that much money? The exchange that profits from every trade.
Why would they roll back the trades? It was their account that was selling at $0.01.
How did they decide to break their own rules so quickly and make it public? Their own money was at stake.
Good luck getting them to not reverse the trades. That would probably put them out of business and negatively effect the bitcoin itself. I had a standing order at $0.01 and managed to pick up $14 worth of coins at that price. But even I realize that these trades must be rolled back in order to prevent a loss of confidence by the investor group. Anyone who deals with real trading will tell you that. I also lost out big when they reversed trades on the NYSE after the flash crash 15 months ago... But I understand why these things happen. Get over it and be glad that you got the BTC you did out of the market. I wish I had been as smart, but I got greedy and withdrew nothing. People like you who did get $ out of the system will probably cause mtgox to have some losses, but that is probably what they deserve for allowing this to happen. At the end of the day, you made a little easy money and mtgox will restore confidence and keep the bitcoin economy alive. It's a win-win.
My $0.02.
Who has that much money? The exchange that profits from every trade.
Why would they roll back the trades? It was their account that was selling at $0.01.
How did they decide to break their own rules so quickly and make it public? Their own money was at stake.
Good luck getting them to not reverse the trades. That would probably put them out of business and negatively effect the bitcoin itself. I had a standing order at $0.01 and managed to pick up $14 worth of coins at that price. But even I realize that these trades must be rolled back in order to prevent a loss of confidence by the investor group. Anyone who deals with real trading will tell you that. I also lost out big when they reversed trades on the NYSE after the flash crash 15 months ago... But I understand why these things happen. Get over it and be glad that you got the BTC you did out of the market. I wish I had been as smart, but I got greedy and withdrew nothing. People like you who did get $ out of the system will probably cause mtgox to have some losses, but that is probably what they deserve for allowing this to happen. At the end of the day, you made a little easy money and mtgox will restore confidence and keep the bitcoin economy alive. It's a win-win.
My $0.02.
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