Topic: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings - page 136. (Read 658701 times)

Havelock is a passthrough.

Transfer to Havelock?  Can we have another free transfer period?

So, Bitfunder is shutting down, what's the plan?

To be fair I don't think that's true either. Neobee is another interesting experiment with Bitcoin but it's failure is unlikely to change anything. Success would but failure would really be down to why it failed. Lack of customers is not going to affect Bitcoin at all while losing customer money would be different but still of limited damage to the ecosystem in my view. Nothing like this is going to set it back years.

Bitcoin actually has 2-5 years of technical and regulatory changes/improvements before it's a world player in anything other than the commodity market in my view. An exception may be banking in selected countries, however - and this is where Neobee comes in. That is unless a Facebook or PayPal jump on board.

It's common for people to over emphasise aspects of Bitcoin or Bitcoin businesses. It's really very incomplete as a system, brilliant though it is. No one company is going to break Bitcoin at this point (Mt Gox have tried, twice!), although a successful one could make it.

Tat: crumbs is here now. All we need is Ice and the downhill slope will be complete. Why these guys haven't been banned for making the securities section near useless I can't fathom. It's a forum admin fail when a tiny number of trolls are allowed to repeatedly trash threads.

kingcrimson - to equate my post to the likes of the one just made by crumbs is an absurdity. Finally these questions are being discussed sensibly not least by ffsixty. Again, I want this to succeed, but is that more or less likely with a blind acceptance of everything the company proposes to take to market? Or do you investors need to start understanding the products you are backing and start thinking about real world scenarios, customer expectation, and make a positive and considered contribution to the dialogue on here with the company.

Every btc holder aware of the bigger picture of the impact of crypto currency must want this bank to work. Failure could set back btc, delay wider adoption, which helps no-one except the status quo. The major problem on here right now is the conflict between narrow minded neo investors focused on their own quick profit and others like ex-trader who see that a failure of neo could set back crypto currencies for years. Neobee has to succeed for everyones benifit while the super fans on here just want it to succeed for themselves and their own portfolio - that's why they are terrified of asking difficult questions. This helps nobody in the long run and might mean this bank, with good intent, brings products to the market that nobody wants.

Please don't turn this thread into another next 600-page monster of filler nonsense and bickering.

Let's stick to specific, relevant, questions and updates please. We're all adults here, I assume.

Hyperbolic commentary, greedy speculation, re-wordings of the same questions, and unsatisfiable expressions of discontent - all might be best left for another thread or forum.

Thanks!

This is actually pretty funny 

Judging by how badly you guys have blown it with banking, i'd suggest you hold off on cloning brains.

Mmmmmmmmmm, it's because we (and Italy, and Spain, and Portugal, and Greece etc.) do not have "balance sheet experts".

Please "balance sheet expert", lend us your brain for cloning!

That was the point about reading the prospectus that I made a few days earlier. However, detail detail, the devil is in the detail. There needs to be a compelling case for the accounts to be opened up. From memory, there are to be multi-sig accounts with Neo, user and a 3rd party lawyer having access. It's also not clear whether this is the case for all accounts although I presume so - multi-sig implies these exist on the blockchain and that Neo will adjust the balance on a daily basis. Presumptions aren't the same as knowing.

However, surely the government would impose restrictions on what the lawyer/neo sign for just as with regular banks? That's where I have queries as the benefit for locals must be that they can get the money and the government can't. Multisig is great but not so great if the gov can just pass arbitrary laws to prevent you accessing your money again by hampering the other signatories.

Good luck with the regulators. They could make or break Neo.

I'm also totally supportive of this, I was more trying to get across what ex-trader is getting at as I found his posts awkward and rather trolly in the way they were written (is that a word, trolly?). No offence ex-t. There are fair questions waiting to be answered even if they can't be answered today.

Also, have you guys all seen Coinkite's fee structure and offering? Thoughts?

Coinkite pricing: https://coinkite.com/faq/pricing

Mmmm, now I understand why Cyprus is in crisis................

Here's the TL;DR of this ex-trader topic:

"The people will have full access to their bitcoins."

"why?"

"Because that's the right thing to do"

"why?"

"Because it's not nice to keep peoples' money from them."

"why?"

"Because they worked for it and deserve it."

"why?"

"Because they need money in order to live."

"why?"

::puts gun in mouth::

You will have to wait for that level of detail until the legal reviews have been completed on all of our marketing materials relating to Neo pegged wallets. At no point has there ever been an indication that it would be impossible for the customer to get their BTC, surely the part that states 'even without Neo, the customer can get their Bitcoin' would have cleared that up....

I am a Cypriot and I work in the treasury department of a bank.

I can say that I am satisfied by the business case of the company and the answers given by Danny on the questions of the "balance sheet expert".

As for the 100K guarantee to all bank accounts, all Cypriots (and I will guess all Europeans by now) know that this is a fallacy. The whole GDP of Cyprus/Europe is not enough to "guarantee" the deposits below 100K in Cyprus/Europe.

All accounts both above and below 100K are frozen. You cannot access your "money". You have pieces of paper stating that you have XXX in your account but this is a fallacy, a psychological trick. The money simply isn't there.

All accounts both above and below 100K are frozen and compulsorily converted to deposit accounts with only 20% being made available; and out this you can withdraw only 300 euros per day, export max 3k per month or issue cheques max 15k per month.

Exactly, what I am trying to get to is clear explanation of each account, which has NOT been given, particularly in relation to access to wallets and Bitcoins. From this it will be clear what are the compelling reasons to place money into the accounts.

I don't think ex-trader expresses himself well but neither do I think his questions were answered for the most part.

A much clearer answer would be to list -precisely- the account offerings, including exactly how and when they can be accessed, and if each account is on the blockchain and maintained with a correct balance on a daily basis.

i.e. Can users withdraw the BTC equivalent of their Euro balance to a BTC wallet at absolutely any time whatsoever if they hold a regular Euro-pegged account?

This is important because there has to be a reason -why- people should use this bank instead of others. It does have Bitcoin exposure risk and the upside is definitely on the side of the bank rather than the user. Even the savings accounts - unless the interest rate is high enough to balance the risk then a significant lowering of BTC exposes the bank (IMV) which exposes the customers (who don't have enough upside/don't understand the risk). The more customers they have, the more they are exposed to an extended downwards period. Precise exposure depends upon the timing and extent of BTC fluctuations.

What you really want is a list of accounts with precise access rules and account limits (if any) so that we can ascertain the pros and cons of each account type. On top of that, there needs to be a sales pitch for why users should want these accounts. This, to me, is why having immediate and easy access to your actual BTC at any time is important. If you don't, why would I bank with Neo as opposed to anyone else? The govt could grab the money just as easily, I have exchange rate risk (through Neo being made insolvent due to Bitcoin issues), and currently I have no 100k guarantee regardless of how meaningful that is anyway.

Bank charges are also important to know, particularly since there aren't going to be loans made. If you're only making money from bank charges then it is tough going. This is why Bee is so important to them as another income stream. Whether the maths works or not I can't say.

Ex-trader - does that sound about right?

Just to add, I am interested - as a BTC holder - in storing my money somewhere which has genuine bank guarantees and multi-sig to help protect me from theft or losing my wallet. Where I say 'I', I mean a lot of future BTC holders who aren't techies who would pay a small fee for this.

No, the questions have not been addressed properly. The "balance sheet expert" (first time I saw a person who is "expert on balance sheets") wants the answer is swahili. Here it is

- Weka Euro yako katika akaunti zetu Bitcoin

Nafasi ya Euro yako katika mkoba wako Bitcoin

- Wewe wenyewe bitcoins , lakini huwezi kuwa nao, kuwadhibiti au kweli kutumia yao, tangu tunahitaji kupata kuwapeleka mbali na wewe kama wao kwenda katika thamani

Kwenye pochi ya kuchaguliwa , sisi ni tu kutoa usalama wa itifaki cryptographic Bitcoin , ndiyo ni zaidi ya kuhifadhi tu ya thamani. Wateja bado unaweza kutumia Bitcoin hata hivyo wanataka kuitumia.

- Sisi nitakupa kidogo ya ongezeko zao katika thamani badala

Sisi kuchukua juu ya hatari kwa baadhi ya wateja (si wote) , hivyo kwa nini wao kupata hakuna hatari na wote wa malipo?

- Wewe utakuwa kulindwa dhidi ya kuanguka kwao na maalum yetu unproven siri nyeusi mbinu biashara ya sanduku

Tutakuwa na wingi wa majukwaa inapatikana kwa ajili yetu na biashara ya akiba yetu wenyewe ili kuhakikisha kwamba tuna akiba ya kutosha ili kufidia juu- ups yoyote required , huduma zetu za ziada pia kuimarisha akiba yetu wenyewe.

- Hapana, huwezi kuwa na kawaida 100k ulinzi kutoka Benki ya Kupro kama akaunti ya kawaida

"Bima" yote ni moshi na vioo, lakini sisi ni katika majadiliano na wasanifu jirani hii , na au bila ya watu hapa nchini Cyprus kujua kwamba kimsingi haipo, hivyo si ameyapofusha kwa ahadi za uongo hivyo kuitwa 100k dhamana.

Geezes, this has been done. He literally, point-for-point, answered your questions. You had concerns, they were addressed. Come up with new concerns and voice them.

Your words gush bitterness, jealousy, frustration and irony. I LOVE IT!

Stay around. You are becoming amuzing

SAME PLAYER SHOOTS AGAIN.

OK thanks for the clarification.