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Topic: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings - page 140. (Read 658701 times)

sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
IIIIII====II====IIIIII
All kinds of bitcoin companies and investments would be in trouble if someone decided to waste 100s of millions trying to send the price right down. In practice that would be very difficult to do for long. Critique by all means, but be sensible about it. Yes it may happen but that is an extreme case. If one believes it too likely, one would not invest in bitcoin at all.

Asking about a basic hedging strategy is fine but there has already been a reasonable amount of discussion. The reality is that NEOBEE does rely primarily on a stable or rising exchange rate in the short and medium term. If bitcoin falls much in the medium term then NEOBEE will fail, but then it also likely means bitcoin has failed. It's also like asking what happens if lots of people decide to empty their bank accounts - a bank run will take any bank out. NEOBEE are no different. If the price falls too much for too long before they have got sufficient resources put away and then they can't fulfill the obligations, they will have a problem.

Your other question is a pure practical one awhich one can answer by properly reading the materials and posts.

This is beginning to read like an exercise in trolling. In the securities section. Again. For a change.

Good response but you are not seeing the big picture which is that neobee is not any other btc stock, and, global finance is a players game. If neo took a significant portion of peoples savings in Cyprus then it will be a globally significant event. Neo would be destroyed over a period of months through market manipulation of the price of btc while the banking system created its own neobee type infrastructure and made plans to adopt btc into the mainstream.

It might well cost a few hundreds of millions but have you seen how much a global bank turns over never mind the funds available to the Fed. All that money could be made back with a pump on btc.

There may be room for new btc based banks to evolve into the fixed, monopolized market that is global finance but only if they are immune or safeguarded from attack from the old guard. Neobee is not safe because a temporary dive in btc can kill it. It has no firewall.  For the big boys a temporary dip would be child's play. So if neo is a success it will be crushed into dust. They are playing in the big boys sandpit. And these boys are amongst the dirtiest, most ruthless and immoral operators on the planet.
N_S
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
I think your standards are unrealistic.

Bingo. This is the right answer.
legendary
Activity: 1025
Merit: 1000

Where in the prospectus does it say NEOBEE will withhold the information about the business model?  The customer has a choice in having a BTC or EUR denominated account.  The customer is going to be offered a fixed interest rate on EUR denominated account so they will benefit from a BTC/EUR increase.

Go back and read the prospectus(hint:this is where the shareholders are informed of the business model).



Show me exactly in the prospectus where it says that retail customers will be told explicitly that their money will be invested in BTC, but that the majority of the upside is kept by Neo, but in the event of BTC falling that Neo will be unable to pay them back.

Customers are not stupid and they'll work this out over time as Neo keep 'adjusting' how many Bitcoins they own via a nonsensical 'peg'......

That isnt the industry standard. Do you think banks sit down and tell customers they gamble their funds on bad mortgages? I think your standards are unrealistic. No bank in the world operates how you expect neobee to.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
You guys are so quick to jump down ex-trader's throat. Slow down.

Yes this question has been posed many, many times, but the point still remains: the business model cryptocyprus is trying to pull off is HARD, and trading your way through heavy dips in price will be a site to see.

Even if they have what they think is a successful trading model (which they won't share because it's their secret sauce), there is still the possibility they will not be able to handle what they thought they could. Point being, pegged accounts are not a sure bet, no matter how good of a trader you are. This is a scary proposition, so no amount of spreadsheets with possible scenarios should quell the prudent investor.

People have to understand this business is a bet on 2 things:

A - Bitcoin's growth

and

B - A bet on the future of banking

You get exposure to both these 2, shooting two birds with one stone.

Ofc if A fails B will fail also, unless Neo uses some ace day traders that could make money in both bull and bear market playing the charts and using huge chunks of money to get the upper hand.
newbie
Activity: 37
Merit: 0
I've read the prospectus, I know the answer, I just want an official real answer to a simple question

yeah, you know the answer because they said it in the prospectus, ain't that official enough?

You seem like children who shouldn't even have money.

Holy fuck...I quit here.
If you don't believe in it I assume you don't have shares. If you don't have shares, get out. If you don't believe in it but have shares, refer to my first comment.

Cryptocyprus, please just find a new update medium with more intelligent creatures.

I concurr, cryptocyprus don't waste your time answering what you've been real clear about allready. As a shareholder I'm happier if you ignore the trolls
sr. member
Activity: 279
Merit: 250
You guys are so quick to jump down ex-trader's throat. Slow down.

Yes this question has been posed many, many times, but the point still remains: the business model cryptocyprus is trying to pull off is HARD, and trading your way through heavy dips in price will be a site to see.

Even if they have what they think is a successful trading model (which they won't share because it's their secret sauce), there is still the possibility they will not be able to handle what they thought they could. Point being, pegged accounts are not a sure bet, no matter how good of a trader you are. This is a scary proposition, so no amount of spreadsheets with possible scenarios should quell the prudent investor.
newbie
Activity: 41
Merit: 0
Please answer with a simple yes or no.

I'll answer you: read the prospectus. More carefully if you have allready. You could even read the first 10 or so pages of the thread and save us all reading over and over the same questions that cryptocyprus has allready answered

I've read the prospectus, I know the answer, I just want an official real answer to a simple question, so I can make my point clear.

Either they can prove me wrong or right, I just want the truth and to get that I want them to answer the question. If they will not engage in a simple debate to attempt to prove me wrong with simple facts, then that alone speaks volumes to me.

Of course you cannot take possession of the bitcoin you numskull, at least not while your account is valued at your EUR deposit amount. otherwise you as the depositor would have access to 100% of the short term upside potential (withdraw the bitcoin) with none of the short term downside risk (leave the deposit in).  
If you want to abandon your EUR pegged position than buy a bitcoin and be done with it.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000

Since Neo still refuse to answer my simple questions with simple answers let me ask it again in a very simple way.

One Bitcoin is currently worth 150euros. If I could open an account tommorow with my 150 euros, will I own one Bitcoin and be given the address/code for that Bitcoin that will allow me to transfer it to a place of my choice if required.

Please answer with a simple yes or no.

If the rate drops to $1 (Highly unlikely), we will buy every single Bitcoin available and use it all in Cyprus for our customers.
You are a good trader but you can't read? LOL

newbie
Activity: 38
Merit: 0
You seem like children who shouldn't even have money.

Holy fuck...I quit here.
If you don't believe in it I assume you don't have shares. If you don't have shares, get out. If you don't believe in it but have shares, refer to my first comment.

Cryptocyprus, please just find a new update medium with more intelligent creatures.
N_S
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
If they will not engage in a simple debate to attempt to prove me wrong with simple facts, then that alone speaks volumes to me.

So let's assume they don't respond to your question. Are you going to keep asking them to answer it?
sr. member
Activity: 298
Merit: 250
Please answer with a simple yes or no.

I'll answer you: read the prospectus. More carefully if you have allready. You could even read the first 10 or so pages of the thread and save us all reading over and over the same questions that cryptocyprus has allready answered

I've read the prospectus, I know the answer, I just want an official real answer to a simple question, so I can make my point clear.

Either they can prove me wrong or right, I just want the truth and to get that I want them to answer the question. If they will not engage in a simple debate to attempt to prove me wrong with simple facts, then that alone speaks volumes to me.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
All kinds of bitcoin companies and investments would be in trouble if someone decided to waste 100s of millions trying to send the price right down. In practice that would be very difficult to do for long. Critique by all means, but be sensible about it. Yes it may happen but that is an extreme case. If one believes it too likely, one would not invest in bitcoin at all.

Asking about a basic hedging strategy is fine but there has already been a reasonable amount of discussion. The reality is that NEOBEE does rely primarily on a stable or rising exchange rate in the short and medium term. If bitcoin falls much in the medium term then NEOBEE will fail, but then it also likely means bitcoin has failed. It's also like asking what happens if lots of people decide to empty their bank accounts - a bank run will take any bank out. NEOBEE are no different. If the price falls too much for too long before they have got sufficient resources put away and then they can't fulfill the obligations, they will have a problem.

Your other question is a pure practical one which one can answer by properly reading the materials and posts.

This is beginning to read like an exercise in trolling. In the securities section. Again. For a change.
newbie
Activity: 37
Merit: 0
Please answer with a simple yes or no.

I'll answer you: read the prospectus. More carefully if you have allready. You could even read the first 10 or so pages of the thread and save us all reading over and over the same questions that cryptocyprus has allready answered
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
IIIIII====II====IIIIII
Not sure what exchange you are using ex but you want to think about moving - 213 USD on mtgox right now and 203 on Bitstamp. Still, good question Wink

Opps you said Euros, my mistake.
sr. member
Activity: 298
Merit: 250

Since Neo still refuse to answer my simple questions with simple answers let me ask it again in a very simple way.

One Bitcoin is currently worth 150euros. If I could open an account tommorow with my 150 euros, will I own one Bitcoin and be given the address/code for that Bitcoin that will allow me to transfer it to a place of my choice if required.

Please answer with a simple yes or no.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
IIIIII====II====IIIIII
I suggest you read it fully, its fairly scary once you start to consider what happens if BTC doesn't go up or goes down. Funnily enough thats not shown in the plan. Just the idea that they'll be able to cover these losses through some special secret 'trading'......

There are many institutions or sovereign banks that could destroy NeoBee if they thought it was a challenge to their interests. They would not be required to work as a consortium, some of these global players have Billions of dollars that they could use to manipulate the market into new low after new low. They would likely accumulate BTC over a long period, then continually dump on every new dip undermining confidence. The result is months of declining btc value. That alone could bankrupt NeoBee before you consider how they could manipulate the Euro to Neo's detriment.

Without a working hedge strategy for declining btc value NeoBee is doomed. Is there one? There might be in a few years when BTC market-cap is 20Billion, but not now.
hero member
Activity: 583
Merit: 500
Bitcoin for all & all for Bitcoin
Thank you TAT, that was mighty quick. I suppose its because I lagged until the final day - had to wait for that drop on BF though  Grin

Can't wait to hear the update later today, very impressive how everything is moving along.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
NEOBEE Bitfunder Migration Grace Period

In light of Bitfunder's recent announcements, we are enabling each Bitfunder shareholder ONE free migration to Havelock.

The following limitations apply:
1. You must initiate this migration request before November 1, 2013.
2. Due to a massive amount of requests, your migration might take anywhere from 1-14 days to process.
3. Beginning Nov. 1st, all transfers will go back to having the 1btc service fee.
4. We can make no guarantees that Bitfunder or Havelock will not impose additional limitations on trading in the future.

 How to Transfer Shares:
 1. Make the subject of your email: NEOBEE
 2. Push the amount of shares to the issuer account on Bitfunder: NeoBee
 3. Send an e-mail to [email protected] from your account email address registered with HavelockInvestments.com and include the following info:
  - Bitfunder account name (not email),
  - Bitfunder public wallet address
  - Quantity of shares
  - Havelock registered email address

Do NOT send your request more than once, and do NOT include other requests, questions or comments.

Transfers will be transferred in batches, and confirmations will ONLY be sent after each batch. Do NOT send emails requesting updates.

NOTE: TAT Investments is not responsible for any lost value, arbitrage, or trading opportunities due to delays in processing transfer requests. TAT Investments is not responsible for any limitations or discontinuations of services or access to liquidity imposed by the host exchanges.


UPDATE

The final batch of free migrations to Havelock have been completed.

The service is still available, but now reverts to the 1 BTC service fee.

N_S
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
On a less repetitive note, I will be releasing the information and a further update later today, as promised in the previous update.

Good man. Looking forward to it.
sr. member
Activity: 686
Merit: 250

Where in the prospectus does it say NEOBEE will withhold the information about the business model?  The customer has a choice in having a BTC or EUR denominated account.  The customer is going to be offered a fixed interest rate on EUR denominated account so they will benefit from a BTC/EUR increase.

Go back and read the prospectus(hint:this is where the shareholders are informed of the business model).



Show me exactly in the prospectus where it says that retail customers will be told explicitly that their money will be invested in BTC, but that the majority of the upside is kept by Neo, but in the event of BTC falling that Neo will be unable to pay them back.

Customers are not stupid and they'll work this out over time as Neo keep 'adjusting' how many Bitcoins they own via a nonsensical 'peg'......

Our marketing explicitly states that when a customer uses a branch or other point of exchange, they are exchanging their Euro for Bitcoin, we are educating the population on Bitcoin from the outset. I am still struggling to see the part where it becomes apparent that we are hiding this from the customer, we are merely allowing customers to use Bitcoin without any of the technical and security related hurdles. We will always be in a position to top up their wallets on a decrease in the rates of Bitcoin. Our local rate will be extremely close to the public market rate, whilst our reserves will be traded constantly and our additional income streams will add to our own reserves, our additional income will surpass the income derived through gains we achieve through the increased rate of Bitcoin, so any increase will become a bonus.

If the rate drops to $1 (Highly unlikely), we will buy every single Bitcoin available and use it all in Cyprus for our customers. If this decrease is due to a technical flaw, it will be resolved within hours as per the previous fork that occurred.

On a less repetitive note, I will be releasing the information and a further update later today, as promised in the previous update.
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