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Topic: IRS claims it has LOST two years' worth of emails from former official Lerner - page 3. (Read 22699 times)

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IRS mistakenly penalizes Christine O’Donnell a second time, placed levy on bank accounts


Adding to the long-running saga of IRS dealings with conservatives, former Senate candidate Christine O’Donnell says the tax agency punished her mistakenly for the second time in five years by imposing an erroneous levy on her bank accounts.

Ms. O’Donnell told The Washington Times that she discovered the levy when she couldn’t access her checking account as she was preparing to visit relatives over Thanksgiving.

“The day before I was heading out of town for the Thanksgiving weekend, my bank told me the IRS had frozen my accounts. They didn’t give me a reason why, just a phone number to call,” Ms. O’Donnell said in an interview this week.



She said she called the Internal Revenue Service and was told the agency had concluded she owed $30,000 in taxes from a 2008 house transaction, which was long ago accounted for on her federal returns. She said she implored the agency to check her tax records and eventually was told the levy was generated in error and her accounts would be freed up.

Although IRS officials removed the levy, they first withdrew all the funds from her account. They said that, too, was in error and the funds would be returned to her. The funds have not been replaced, Ms. O’Donnell said.

Ms. O’Donnell, who writes a column for the online Washington Times Communities, says her only current matter pending with the IRS is that she filed for an extension to pay her 2013 taxes but that the levy had nothing to do with that filing.


“They said it was a mistake, and they removed the levy. I’m grateful, but I also wonder what someone with less government experience might do when they find themselves frozen from their money because the IRS got its paperwork mixed up. It can be scary. You feel helpless if you can’t even buy gas for your car,” she said.
Asked where she thought her latest IRS run-in fit into the bigger controversy over the agency’s dealings with conservatives, she answered cautiously.

“While I don’t believe in coincidences, it’s possible that this was just bureaucratic bungling. But either way, the IRS has to be held accountable. It needs to do its job right and not target or inconvenience taxpayers unfairly,” she said.
IRS officials said federal tax privacy laws prohibit them from commenting on individual taxpayer matters.

Ms. O’Donnell, a tea party favorite who burst onto the national stage in 2010 when she upset a longtime incumbent and won the Republican nomination for U.S. Senate in Delaware, has been one of several high-profile conservatives to claim mistreatment from the IRS and other federal authorities.

Senate investigators continue to probe why Delaware state authorities accessed Ms. O’Donnell’s IRS tax file on a Saturday morning in spring 2010, right around the time she announced her candidacy and a story was leaked alleging that she owed back taxes to the IRS, which was later proved to be false.

Delaware authorities claim the records check was routine but that the computer records detailing what was searched have since been destroyed. Lawmakers in both parties have cited the episode in raising concerns about possible lax access for state agencies to sensitive federal tax records.

The first tax lien was placed on a house she had sold more than two years earlier, and it created headaches for her finances and her campaign. The lien was highly publicized and used to discredit Ms. O’Donnell’s candidacy just as it was getting off the ground, even though she no longer owned the home in question.

The IRS eventually removed the lien, blaming it on a computer error. Ms. O’Donnell sold the home in 2008, and financial documents from her lender show that her back payments were satisfied in July 2008, long before the IRS initiated the bogus lien.

Ms. O’Donnell also battled a three-year audit of her personal finances that ultimately ended with her repaying $1,100 to the federal government. She said friends and family also were subjected to intrusive audits, though they were cleared. She believes the first round of IRS intrusions were political and malicious, and she has called on Congress to rein in the tax agency.

The second erroneous tax lien was revealed the same week that House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Darrell E. Issa, California Republican, released a report highlighting emails he said showed a clear anti-conservative bias inside the IRS. It was also the same week that the House Ways and Means and Senate Judiciary committees confirmed they were still investigating the 2010 breach of Ms. O’Donnell’s tax records.



http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/25/christine-odonnell-tea-party-figure-says-irs-mista/



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BOMBSHELL REPORT: IRS Targeted ‘Icky’ Conservative Groups



Top IRS officials specifically targeted tea party groups and misled the public about its secret political targeting program led by ex-official Lois Lerner, according to a bombshell new congressional report.

The Daily Caller has obtained an advance copy of a House Oversight and Government Reform Committee report set to be released Tuesday morning that definitively proves malicious intent by the IRS to improperly block conservative groups that an IRS adviser deemed “icky.” (That’s right. “Icky.”)

“The Committee has identified eight senior leaders who were in a position to prevent or to stop the IRS’s targeting of conservative applicants,” the Oversight report states. “Each of these leaders could have and should have done more to prevent the IRS’s targeting of conservative tax-exempt applicants.”

Here are six major takeaways from the report:

1. The IRS admitted that the front office was “spinning” about the targeting rumors as early as 2012, after IRS commissioner Douglas Shulman denied the tea party targeting to Congress.

“This is what the front office and [IRS Chief of Communications and Liaison] Frank [Keith] are spinning about now,” an IRS legislative affairs office employee wrote in an email to co-workers, referring to a news article on Shulman’s dishonest testimony before the House Ways and Means Committee, in which he denied rumors of improper targeting.

2. Then-IRS commissioner Steven T. Miller almost broke down and told the truth about the tea party targeting at a July 2012 hearing, but Lerner’s sidekick Nikole Flax told him not to.

“I am beginning to wonder whether I should do [Chairman] Boustany[’s hearing] and affirmatively use it to put a stake in politics and c4,” Miller wrote in an email to Flax.

Flax replied, “If the hearing is as generic as I recall, seems like you are too senior.  Would be silly to think the c4 issues won’t come up – but I think Sarah [Hall Ingram] could handle it fine as well.”

3. The IRS definitely treated tea party applications by a different standard than applications from other (c)(4) groups.

“Normal (c)(4) cases we must develop the concept of social welfare, such as the community newspapers, or the poor, that types,” Lerner underling Stephen Seok said in testimony published in the report. “These [Tea Party] organizations mostly concentrate on their activities on the limiting government, limiting government role, or reducing government size, or paying less tax.  I think it[‘]s different from the other social welfare organizations which are (c)(4).”

4. Lois Lerner expressed her frustration about having to potentially approve a lot of groups, and her colleagues in the agency assured her that she wouldn’t have to.

“Lois [Lerner] would like to discuss our planned approach for dealing with these cases. We suspect we will have to approve the majority of the c4 applications,” IRS official Holly Paz wrote to colleagues.

IRS official Don Spellman replied, “This line in particular stood out: ‘We suspect we will have to approve the majority of c4 applications.’ That’s an interesting posture.”

Deputy Division Counsel Janine Cook replied, “[G]uess they are thinking they’ll have suspicions about reality but the paper/reps will pass muster.”

5. So the IRS reached out to outside advisers to help come up with ways to deny tax-exempt status to “icky” organizations.

“It appears that the org is funneling money to other orgs for political purposes,” a Cincinnati-based IRS agent working under Lois Lerner wrote to tax law specialist Hilary Goehausen in April 2013. ”However, I’m not sure we can deny them because, technically, I don’t know that I can deny them simply for donating to another 501(c)(4). . . .  Any thoughts or feedback would be greatly appreciated.”

“I think there may be a number of ways to deny them,” Goehausen replied. “Let me talk to Sharon [Light] tomorrow about it and get some ideas from her as well. . . .This sounds like a bad org. :/ . . .  This org gives me an icky feeling.”

6. A May 2011 email from a lawyer in the IRS chief counsel’s office made clear that the agency sought to use a new “gift tax” to target donors to nonprofit political groups.

The lawyer wrote that the “plan is to elevate the issue of asserting gift tax on donors to 501(c)(4) organizations to the Chief Counsel and the Commissioner.”



http://dailycaller.com/2014/12/22/bombshell-report-irs-targeted-icky-conservative-groups/








legendary
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IRS Watchdog Continues to Hide Records on White House Leaks

Of 2509 documents, government agrees to release 31



An independent IRS monitor announced Monday it will block the release of roughly 400 more pages of documents related to unauthorized leaks of confidential taxpayer information to the White House.

The Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA) told the watchdog group Cause of Action it would be withholding nearly all of the 2,500 documents it located that were related to unauthorized IRS leaks to the White House. Earlier this month, TIGTA told Cause of Action it was withholding roughly 2,100 of the documents and said it would take an additional two weeks to review the rest.

TIGTA released 31 pages of documents on Monday to Cause of Action, 27 of which were already publicly available. Most were responses to letters from Republican senators.

As previously reported by the Washington Free Beacon, Cause of Action filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit against TIGTA for the long-sought-after records after the agency refused to even acknowledge whether they existed or not.

A federal judge ruled in September that TIGTA could not hide the existence of its investigations into improper leaks. In response TIGTA identified 2,509 responsive documents to Cause of Action’s FOIA request but said it was barred by law from releasing them.

TIGTA has used a statute meant to shield confidential taxpayer information to block FOIA requests over the past several years that seek information on investigations into politically motivated IRS leaks by the Obama administration.

For example, TIGTA refused to confirm or deny the existence of an investigation into former White House economic adviser Austan Goolsbee in response to several FOIA requests from the Washington Free Beacon, Koch Industries, and Cause of Action.

Goolsbee sparked a mini-scandal in 2010 when said during a background press briefing that Koch Industries—the company of libertarian philanthropists Charles and David Koch—paid no income taxes.

“It is disappointing that more than 4 years later, we still don’t know what Mr. Goolsbee exactly did or what TIGTA’s investigation revealed,” Koch Industries general counsel Mark Holden said in a statement to the Free Beacon.

In a statement, Cause of Action said it will file a motion claiming TIGTA is violating public record law by refusing to release the rest of the records.

In response to a question about the case at a White House press briefing earlier this month, White House press secretary Josh Earnest said the Obama administration “has been very rigorous in following all of the rules and regulations that govern proper communications between treasury officials and White House officials and the Internal Revenue Service.”


http://freebeacon.com/politics/irs-watchdog-continues-to-hide-records-on-white-house-leaks/


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Judicial Watch Documents: Lois Lerner Met With DOJ Election Crimes Division One Month Before 2010 Midterm Elections



As result of a court order, the DOJ last month produced only two pages of heavily redacted emails (832 pages were withheld in entirety) that show the Obama Justice Department initiated an October 8, 2010, meeting between the IRS and top criminal prosecutors at the DOJ Public Integrity Section and Election Crimes Division “concerning 501(c)(4) issues.” On September 29, 2010, a DOJ official (whose name is blacked out) emailed a staff assistant at the IRS (whose name is also redacted):

"As we discussed this afternoon, we would like to invite Ms. Ingram [apparent reference to Sarah Hall Ingram former commissioner, IRS Tax Exempt and Government Entities] to meet with us concerning 501(c)(4) issues, and propose next Friday at 10:00 a.m. We are located in the Bond Building, 12th Floor, New York Avenue, NW, Thank you for your assistance."

The document shows that the unknown DOJ official setting up the meeting is with the Election Crimes Division of the Public Integrity Section of the DOJ’s Criminal Division. (Judicial Watch believes the redacted name of the DOJ official is Richard Pilger, Director of the Election Crimes Division.) The DOJ email setting up the IRS meeting is cc’d to the DOJ’s Public Integrity Section Chief, Jack Smith, and Principal Deputy Chief Raymond Hulser. The documents show that Ingram was not available but arranged for her deputy, Lois Lerner, then-Director of the IRS Exempt Organizations branch, to meet with the DOJ senior officials.

On September 30, 2010, the Election Crimes prosecutor emails Lerner:

"Hi Lois-It's been a long time, and you might not remember me, I've taken on [REDACTED] duties. I’m looking forward to meeting you, Can we chat in advance? I'm a [REDACTED]"

Lerner responded on October 2, 2010:

"Sure-that's a good Idea [sic]. I have a meeting out of the office Monday morning, but will try you when I get back sometime early afternoon. You can try me at 202 283-8848."

The Justice Department has withheld in full at least 832 additional pages of documents, citing various “taxpayer privacy,” “deliberative privilege,” and other exemptions to keep the records secret.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-lawsuit-forces-release-doj-emails-showing-irss-lois-lerner-met-doj-officials-just-2010-elections/




“These new documents dramatically show how the Justice Department is up to its neck in the IRS scandal and can’t be trusted to investigate crimes associated with the IRS abuses that targeted Obama’s critics. And it is of particular concern that the DOJ’s Public Integrity Section, which would ordinarily investigate the IRS abuses, is now implicated in the IRS crimes. No wonder the Department of Justice under Eric Holder has done no serious investigation of the Obama IRS scandal," Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton said in a statement. “It is shameful how Establishment Washington has let slide by Obama’s abuse of the IRS and the Justice Department. Only as a result of Judicial Watch’s independent investigations did the American people learn about the IRS-DOJ prosecution discussions of Obama’s political enemies and how the IRS sent, in violation of law, confidential taxpayer information to the FBI and DOJ in 2010. Richard Nixon was impeached for less.”

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/12/09/judicial-watch-documents-lois-lerner-met-with-doj-election-crimes-division-one-month-before-2010-midterm-elections-n1929418?utm_source=BreakingOnTownhallWidget_4&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=BreakingOnTownhall








legendary
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legendary
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Feds balk at releasing docs showing IRS sharing tax returns with White House


Less than a week after ’fessing up that it found some 2,500 documents potentially showing that the IRS shared taxpayer returns with the White House, the Obama administration has reversed course and won’t release the trove to a group suing for access.

In an abrupt decision, the Treasury inspector general’s office said that the documents are covered by privacy and disclosure laws and can’t be provided to Cause of Action, despite a promise last week to hand over some 2,500.

The decision coincides with publication by the Washington Examiner this week of "Watchdogs, lapdogs and attack dogs," a four-part series examining the successes and failures of the inspectors-general system, including multiple instances in which IGs provided cover for agency managers seeking to avoid more rigorous evaluations.

“All of the 2,043 pages of documents we have determined to be responsive were collected by the Secretary of the Treasury with respect to the determination of possible liability under Title 26 of the United States Code. These pages consist of return information protected by 26 U.S.C. § 6103 and may not be disclosed absent an express statutory exception,” said the office in a letter dated Dec. 1.

What's more, Treasury, which oversees the IRS, is still considering what to do with another 466 documents and said that they will provide a "response regarding" them.

Dan Epstein, executive director of Cause of Action, said Treasury was using “sophisticated” lawyering to weasel out of providing the documents. And he noted that their letter said that Treasury Secretary Jack Lew is now looking into “potential liability” that his tax aides broke laws in sharing taxpayer information with the White House.

Epstein said that either Treasury was “stonewalling” his group, or that Lew “is incompetent” for just now looking at potential lawbreaking by his team on the case that is two years old.

It is just the latest twist in the taxpayer advocate’s effort to prove allegations of political harassment of conservative taxpayers and groups. The documents are not related to the larger IRS harassment of Tea Party groups, but could show a pattern of targeting by the White House.

Cause of Action had won a Freedom of Information legal action to gain access to the documents and expected them to be redacted. Epstein said that he expects to fight Treasury's move in court.


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/feds-balk-at-releasing-docs-showing-irs-sharing-tax-returns-with-white-house/article/2556890



legendary
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IRS Gave White House Thousands of Taxpayer Documents


The IRS improperly turned over thousands of confidential tax documents to the White House for review, according to information obtained from a lawsuit filed against the U.S. Treasury Department’s inspector general by the legal advocacy firm Cause of Action, exposing a pipeline of communication between the two, the Daily Caller reports.

“The Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA) informed Cause of Action that there exist nearly 2,500 potentially responsive documents relating to investigations of improper disclosures of confidential taxpayer information by the IRS to the White House,” Cause of Action noted, according to the Daily Caller.

Such documentation, including the exchange of confidential information between White House policy adviser Jeanne Lambrew and former IRS official Lois Lerner, came to light after it was revealed that the the IRS had likely targeted conservative groups for review, including one that had sought in a 2012 lawsuit to overturn Obamacare’s contraceptive mandate, the Daily Caller noted.

The Justice Department has asked for a longer window under which to review the newly found documents before releasing them publicly, the Daily Caller said.

The Washington Examiner’s Paul Bedard, in his “Secrets” column, called news of the leaked documents a “shocking revelation.”

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/irs-taxpayer-documents-white-house/2014/11/27/id/609925/



---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shocking... But hardly surprising...


legendary
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Lois Lerner Refused Tax Exempt Status to Hundreds of Conservative Groups – But Granted Status to an Underage Prostitution Ring


This seemingly boring property tax story began when attorney Ron Pruitt filed nonprofit incorporation documents with Texas’ Secretary of State on 7/11/2003. These documents were then filed with the IRS, where Lois Lerner, the former Director of Exempt Organization Rulings and Agreements, decided the Royal Order of Jesters deserved 501(c)(3) status as a charity and, on July 24, 2004, approved their application that classified their new headquarters as a “museum.” The Jesters then filed as a foreign corporation business entity with the Secretary of State of Indiana to qualify their new Indianapolis headquarters for property tax exemption. Additionally, the Jesters were afforded other nonprofit benefits including reduced postal rates, possible exemption from state income, sales, and employment taxes, tax-deductible contributions and exemption from Federal income tax. According to About.com, “Tax-exempt means that a nonprofit (1) does not pay taxes to the federal government and (2) that its donors can take a tax deduction for their donations to the organization.”

When the Jester news broke four years ago, we learned from the Buffalo News that a New York state Supreme Court judge resigned after the FBI caught him and two other Jesters in a human trafficking sting. These included his law clerk and a retired Lockport police captain. A retired Erie County Sheriff pleaded guilty last April to driving a limo of prostitutes from the Buffalo New York airport to a national Jester convention in Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada in April, 2005 and not reporting the felony to authorities. The Judge testified in his plea agreement that he worked with national officials to make sure prostitutes got to a national Jester meeting in Niagara Falls, Ontario. The same plea agreement discloses that the Jesters are under federal investigation for sex trafficking, prostitution and child sex tourism.

The other story I broke four years ago reported that a group of 19 Jesters were on a witness list and were expected to testify about their first hand knowledge of sex with minor girls while on a fishing trip to Brazil. The list included national Jester director Samuel “Scutter” Newton.

The former fishing tour operator who organized the Jester fishing trip is currently being prosecuted by Brazilian authorities for trafficking underage girls into prostitution for his North American fishing clients. He is also under criminal investigation by a grand jury in Miami for child sex tourism and has been sued by four Brazilian women who claim he trafficked them into prostitution while minors.

The depositions of five Brazilian girls describe how one was left pregnant at age 13 after one such fishing trip. Fishing guides took pictures of Jesters having sex with minor girls and surrendered them to the Brazilian Federal Police. The fishing guides testified in the same case that the Jesters asked to be called “Masons” and for girls over 13. It is not yet known if these Jesters are among the twenty fishing customers currently under investigation by the Brazilian Senate.

Here is how the feds describe the Jesters in the Sheriff’s plea agreement.

“The Royal Order of Jesters (“ROJ”) is a worldwide fraternal organization whose membership is limited to individuals invited to join by other members. The motto of the ROJ is ‘mirth is king.’ The ROJ has local chapters or ‘courts.’ On occasion, a local court or group of local courts in the same geographical area sponsor social gatherings known as ‘books of the play’ or ‘books.’ The sponsoring courts organize the ‘books’ and arrange for food, lodging, and entertainment at the ‘books.’ The ROJ also sponsors a yearly national ‘book,’ the equivalent of a national convention. In April, 2005, the Jester’s national book was held in Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada. As set forth below, a typical feature of a ‘book of the play’ is the presence of prostitutes (‘Jester Girls’) who engage in commercial sex acts with members of the ROJ. Arrangements for the prostitutes are generally made by the organizer of the ‘books,’ or the region hosting the national ‘book.’ On occasion, individual Jesters make arrangements to transport prostitutes to ‘books.’”

http://sandyfrost.newsvine.com/_news/2012/02/14/10404340-the-reveal-part-7-jesters-lose-tax-decision

legendary
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Flashback: Commissioner Admits Missing Lois Lerner Hard Drive Was Melted Down




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30,000 missing emails from IRS' Lerner recovered


Up to 30,000 missing emails sent by former Internal Revenue Service official Lois Lerner have been recovered by the IRS inspector general, five months after they were deemed lost forever.

The U.S. Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA) informed congressional staffers from several committees on Friday that the emails were found among hundreds of “disaster recovery tapes” that were used to back up the IRS email system.

“They just said it took them several weeks and some forensic effort to get these emails off these tapes,” a congressional aide told the Washington Examiner.

The IRS, in a statement provided to the Examiner, said the agency and IRS Commissioner John Koskinen is fully cooperating with the investigation.

"As Commissioner Koskinen has stated, the IRS welcomes TIGTA’s independent review and expert forensic analysis." The IRS statement said. "Commissioner Koskinen has said for some time he would be pleased if additional Lois Lerner emails from this time frame could be found."

Committees in the House and Senate are seeking the emails, which they believe could show Lerner was working in concert with Obama administration officials to target conservative and Tea Party groups seeking tax-exempt status before the 2012 presidential election.

The missing emails extend from 2009 to 2011, a period when Lerner headed the IRS’s exempt-organizations division. The emails were lost when Lerner’s computer crashed, IRS officials said earlier this year.

In June Koskinen told Congress the emails were probably lost for good because the disaster recovery tape holds onto the data for only six months. He said even if the IRS had sought the emails within the six-month period, it would have been a complicated and difficult process to produce them from the tapes.

The IRS also lost the emails of several other employees who worked under Lerner during that period.

Lerner, who retired from the IRS, has refused to be questioned by Congress.

She provided a statement at a March hearing, but then clammed up, following the advice of her lawyer to avoid self-incrimination.

The House, led by Republicans, voted in May to hold Lerner in contempt of Congress.

Congressional aides said officials from the inspector general’s office said it could take weeks to get the recovered emails off the tape before sending them to lawmakers in Capitol Hill.

In all, investigators from the inspector general’s office combed through 744 disaster recovery tapes. They are not finished looking.

There are 250 million emails on the tapes that will be reviewed. Officials said it is likely they will find missing emails from other IRS officials who worked under Lerner and who said they suffered computer crashes.

Investigators said the emails could include some overlapping information because it is not clear how many of them are duplicates or were already produced by Lerner to the congressional committees.

Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., said the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee he chairs will be one of the committees that will examine the emails.

“Though it is unclear whether TIGTA has found all of the missing Lois Lerner e-mails, there may be significant information in this discovery,” Issa told the Examiner. “The Oversight Committee will be looking for information about her mindset and who she was communicating with outside the IRS during a critical period of time when the IRS was targeting conservative groups. This discovery also underscores the lack of cooperation Congress has received from the IRS. The agency first failed to disclose the loss to Congress and then tried to declare Lerner’s e-mails gone and lost forever. Once again it appears the IRS hasn’t been straight with Congress and the American people.”



http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/30k-missing-irs-emails-recovered/article/2556522



legendary
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Let's see, the IRS was technically savy enough to forward millions of pages of personal data about conservatives to Erick Holder to investigate... But somehow they lost 2 years of incriminating emails?
If the Justice Dept. under Holder and now some new minion, will not provide justice (translated, justice is meted out by Obama), then to an extent with the impeachment process, Congress and the Senate can take up that role.
Impeachment is not going to happen. A 2/3 majority needs to vote for impeachment in the senate which will never happen considering that impeachment trials will more or less always follow party lines and there are too many democrat in the senate as of this January
It was changed to 60 votes, no longer 2/3.  There are currently 52 Repubs, 2 "independants" IIRC. 

On an unpopular issue, it is NOT CLEAR that you will have a party line vote.
sr. member
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Doesn't seem like any further investigation is going to be done...  This is how it works here in USA, are you all not citizens (sarcasm)?
member
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Let's see, the IRS was technically savy enough to forward millions of pages of personal data about conservatives to Erick Holder to investigate... But somehow they lost 2 years of incriminating emails?
If the Justice Dept. under Holder and now some new minion, will not provide justice (translated, justice is meted out by Obama), then to an extent with the impeachment process, Congress and the Senate can take up that role.
Impeachment is not going to happen. A 2/3 majority needs to vote for impeachment in the senate which will never happen considering that impeachment trials will more or less always follow party lines and there are too many democrat in the senate as of this January
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386
Let's see, the IRS was technically savy enough to forward millions of pages of personal data about conservatives to Erick Holder to investigate... But somehow they lost 2 years of incriminating emails?
If the Justice Dept. under Holder and now some new minion, will not provide justice (translated, justice is meted out by Obama), then to an extent with the impeachment process, Congress and the Senate can take up that role.
hero member
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Let's see, the IRS was technically savy enough to forward millions of pages of personal data about conservatives to Erick Holder to investigate... But somehow they lost 2 years of incriminating emails?
full member
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Except it doesn't just go away.  It either remains as the "new normal", in which the IRS punishes and threatens political enemies/ideologies/opponents of the one in power or the Democrats (which is yet to be determined and might vary) or the IRS is forced to in no uncertain terms stay apart from partisian politics.

Seems the latter would require something like what I proposed, impeachment of officials, but would be a far superior outcome than the former.
The issue could easily go away. All that would need to happen is congress to stop investigating the scandal and the MSM would likely stop reporting on it (as there would be nothing/very little to report.

If the situation were to "go away" then the IRS would be able to continue what they were doing and he democrats would be able to have a political advantage as their opponents would be able to be silenced

This would be a win for the totalitarian fascists.

That certainly would transform the Democratic party.


Obama has shown a willingness of wanting to keep his opponents at bay, at any cost. He has done a lot to get people to not speak out against him, notably the tapping of journalists business phone lines while trying to find out who was leaking information about the adminsitration
legendary
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Except it doesn't just go away.  It either remains as the "new normal", in which the IRS punishes and threatens political enemies/ideologies/opponents of the one in power or the Democrats (which is yet to be determined and might vary) or the IRS is forced to in no uncertain terms stay apart from partisian politics.

Seems the latter would require something like what I proposed, impeachment of officials, but would be a far superior outcome than the former.
The issue could easily go away. All that would need to happen is congress to stop investigating the scandal and the MSM would likely stop reporting on it (as there would be nothing/very little to report.

If the situation were to "go away" then the IRS would be able to continue what they were doing and he democrats would be able to have a political advantage as their opponents would be able to be silenced

This would be a win for the totalitarian fascists.

That certainly would transform the Democratic party.

hero member
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Except it doesn't just go away.  It either remains as the "new normal", in which the IRS punishes and threatens political enemies/ideologies/opponents of the one in power or the Democrats (which is yet to be determined and might vary) or the IRS is forced to in no uncertain terms stay apart from partisian politics.

Seems the latter would require something like what I proposed, impeachment of officials, but would be a far superior outcome than the former.
The issue could easily go away. All that would need to happen is congress to stop investigating the scandal and the MSM would likely stop reporting on it (as there would be nothing/very little to report.

If the situation were to "go away" then the IRS would be able to continue what they were doing and he democrats would be able to have a political advantage as their opponents would be able to be silenced
legendary
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I think, though that instead of endorsing a "spirit of hopelessness" as to the realistic ability to enact significant change and a return to the rule of law, various IRS and AJ officials should be targeted for impeachment.

I am not suggesting any targeting of people who cannot be shown or proven to engage in unlawful behavior, though.  Offhand I don't know if IRS officials remaining have evidence against them that rises to this level.

Holder and Lerner have fled.  Many others would (and should) and perhaps this would set an atmosphere in which these administrative agencies would do better than just grovel at the feet of the wanna be king.
It is not easy to impeach a government official. Even when the evidence is there, the process will turn out to be a political one and the democrats will likely try to stonewall any impeachment (as they have the investigation into the IRS) and would likely vote against impeachment regardless of any evidence presented.

This is not necessarily true.  You are suggesting that rank and file Democrats would line up and protect IRS administrators, who (assuming guilt for the minute) acted illegally although on suggestion to do so by the White House.

The guilt is of the IRS administrator strictly.

Democrats should fear the possibility that the next administration may well be Republican and would use the same tactics against them.  It is only necessary to pick up 60 votes in the Senate to do this. 

I view it as appropriate and just if in fact IRS adminstrators can be proven guilty.

This is very different than suggesting impeach Obama.
You are assuming that it was not high ranking officials that ordered the illegal investigations. You are also assuming that the rank-and-file democrats were not made aware of the investigations ahead of time.

The chairman of the committee investigating the IRS in the senate has essentially said that nothing happened

AFRAID I'll just beg to differ with his sorry lying face.

We'll see what the new chair of that committee says.
The democrats generally want this issue to "go away" because they know it benefited them greatly and generally have a consensus that anything that is discovered as a result of any investigation would not be good for them
Except it doesn't just go away.  It either remains as the "new normal", in which the IRS punishes and threatens political enemies/ideologies/opponents of the one in power or the Democrats (which is yet to be determined and might vary) or the IRS is forced to in no uncertain terms stay apart from partisian politics.

Seems the latter would require something like what I proposed, impeachment of officials, but would be a far superior outcome than the former.
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