Is Avalon mining with customer hardware? Answer is here. - page 14.

erschiessen

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Activity: 322

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Quote from: crazy_rabbit on June 18, 2013, 04:00:55 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

There must be some lawyers amongst us.. can't you guys file a class action lawsuit against them for this? There is something very unfair about this type of business practice.

By rights, you should all have full rights to those BTC that were mined during that period, because those avalons were YOURS, not THEIRS
file a lawsuit

Is that really true though? If you buy a custom built car- the guys building your car can drive it around can't they? It's not like you would require them to drive it on a treadmill. As long as it came to you in new condition (dusty units aside- they said they don't have a clean room) wouldn't you be happy? In my mind the units are only yours once you get possession of them.

Transfer of ownership should come with tranfer of funds.

Your hypothetical sports car's back-seat is covered with load and used condoms... 'Oh well, it wasn't mine until it was mine'

crazy_rabbit

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Activity: 1204

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RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME

Quote from: ?? on ??

There must be some lawyers amongst us.. can't you guys file a class action lawsuit against them for this? There is something very unfair about this type of business practice.

By rights, you should all have full rights to those BTC that were mined during that period, because those avalons were YOURS, not THEIRS
file a lawsuit

Is that really true though? If you buy a custom built car- the guys building your car can drive it around can't they? It's not like you would require them to drive it on a treadmill. As long as it came to you in new condition (dusty units aside- they said they don't have a clean room) wouldn't you be happy? In my mind the units are only yours once you get possession of them.

glub0x

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Activity: 892

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Quote from: mem on June 17, 2013, 11:44:31 PM

I Hope to see them labeled as scammers unless all mined funds are shared among the pre-orders.

this seems quite a fair deal.
They use things that don't belongs to them to their own profit without the owner agreement.
also they use it in a way that it loses value when you receive without advertising it when they have other option (testnet would be the way to go)
I do not care about any law, for me it is clearly robbing.

Vicus

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ProfMac on June 18, 2013, 12:14:34 AM

Quote from: Vicus on June 17, 2013, 12:47:47 PM

Quote from: ProfMac on June 17, 2013, 12:39:27 PM

Quote from: Vicus on June 17, 2013, 04:00:35 AM

Today I finally received my units from Feb. 2 order. One unit was almost clean, while other one is moderate dusty. After checking all connections and desoldering F1 fuse, I started to configure units. First unit has been tuned to ozco.in and that is not surprise, cos same config was on my unit from batch one. Second unit has more interesting config:
http://puu.sh/3hrak.png
As you can see, first pool is eligius.st and most important is address: https://blockchain.info/address/1AYdAw8CcrQ2wx55LTbFHRn5bxgNZhaRLW?offset=0&filter=0
716.40851602 BTC was mined from April 22 by various units. And only gods know, how much was mined on ozco.in.
So, regardles what said Yifu, the answer is: YES, Team Avalon is mining with customer units.

PS: I'm don't have any problems with fact, that Avalon is mining with my units, if this is burn test and not introducing shipment delays.

Does your tracking information tell when the unit left Avalon's control?

May 24

Is there an SSH key in dropbear?

No. Nothing unusual but WiFi Network named something like "AVALON_???"

ProfMac

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Activity: 1246

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Vicus on June 17, 2013, 12:47:47 PM

Quote from: ProfMac on June 17, 2013, 12:39:27 PM

Quote from: Vicus on June 17, 2013, 04:00:35 AM

Today I finally received my units from Feb. 2 order. One unit was almost clean, while other one is moderate dusty. After checking all connections and desoldering F1 fuse, I started to configure units. First unit has been tuned to ozco.in and that is not surprise, cos same config was on my unit from batch one. Second unit has more interesting config:
http://puu.sh/3hrak.png
As you can see, first pool is eligius.st and most important is address: https://blockchain.info/address/1AYdAw8CcrQ2wx55LTbFHRn5bxgNZhaRLW?offset=0&filter=0
716.40851602 BTC was mined from April 22 by various units. And only gods know, how much was mined on ozco.in.
So, regardles what said Yifu, the answer is: YES, Team Avalon is mining with customer units.

PS: I'm don't have any problems with fact, that Avalon is mining with my units, if this is burn test and not introducing shipment delays.

Does your tracking information tell when the unit left Avalon's control?

May 24

Is there an SSH key in dropbear?

Loredo

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: ?? on ??

There must be some lawyers amongst us.. can't you guys file a class action lawsuit against them for this? There is something very unfair about this type of business practice.

By rights, you should all have full rights to those BTC that were mined during that period, because those avalons were YOURS, not THEIRS
file a lawsuit

Alas, there is a thing in law, not only in the USA, but in Europe as well, termed jurisdiction. One of the implications is that the same thing can't happen in two different places at once. *

EDIT: And given your handle, I'll add: presumably, Canada as well. It's essential for Federal systems.

ProfMac

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1002

Quote from: kevcoins on June 17, 2013, 11:53:26 PM

Now Avalon is getting messy, very messy, my my they can't even get all their orders in sequential number, even 8 year kids could do that .. all their email and orders have a date from all the orders were received, talk about support and admin work they are probably at par with butterfly. Don't tell me engineers can do simple support and admin work? The delay was blame on this and that but now should blame it on your guys doing the mining on your customer miners. in future every customers of yours should provide a unused pool accounts for you to test the machines, so all the benefit should go to them.

I thought they were going to ship in payment order, not by order number. I haven't found any list of block number vs shipping date anywhere so I can check this.

Loredo

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: Luke-Jr on June 17, 2013, 06:01:26 PM

Doing burnins on mainnet is not in any sense "stealing".
The burnings have to be done anyway, no point throwing that away.

Have to agree. And his stating (not quoted) that the pattern "discovered" looks like burn-ins to him carries some weight with me.

And what I keep coming back to is this: if you're smart - and both BFL and Avalon are smart guys - you don't want to get caught doing something that can cost you way more than you make on it. It's one of the most effective things to keep people honest.

That said, really bright people can do really dumb things. President Clinton is as smart as they come, and he nearly got impeached over a blow job. *

*EDIT: Actually, he did get impeached. He didn't get convicted and removed from office. There'll be a civics quiz tomorrow.

kevcoins

member

Activity: 117

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Now Avalon is getting messy, very messy, my my they can't even get all their orders in sequential number, even 8 year kids could do that .. all their email and orders have a date from all the orders were received, talk about support and admin work they are probably at par with butterfly. Don't tell me engineers can do simple support and admin work? The delay was blame on this and that but now should blame it on your guys doing the mining on your customer miners. in future every customers of yours should provide a unused pool accounts for you to test the machines, so all the benefit should go back to them.

mem

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 501

Herp Derp PTY LTD

As one of the first to accuse BFL of shenanigans and take a very hard line to Josh I have to say.

Im disgusted with Avalon, they are purposefully delaying beyond agreed delivery time client funded and owned hardware for their own gains.
Thanks Avalon, you just gave the worst bitcoin business (besides bitcoinica) something to be proud of "Hey at least we are not delaying your delivery so we can kill your ROI like Avalon".

I Hope to see them labeled as scammers unless all mined funds are shared among the pre-orders.

DoomDumas

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Activity: 1002

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Bitcoin

Quote from: tinoki on June 17, 2013, 10:32:35 PM

Quote from: Wayne_Chang on June 17, 2013, 10:15:00 PM

Quote from: DoomDumas on June 17, 2013, 10:00:17 PM

Quote from: chsados on June 17, 2013, 10:07:21 AM

Quote from: Blue777 on June 17, 2013, 05:09:19 AM

not suprised at all.every company will test their machines.maybe one week,maybe few month,who know

They should be using a testnet or sending the coins to the purchasers bitcoin address.

+1

Bought in february, was expecting units mining in my basement at least between mid april and mid may. That's a lot of coins I'll never see the color of..

I also believe Bitsyncom when he told us about production delays out of their control, so I think we dont have to be mad against them.. They seem pretty loyal to bitcoin AFAIK, and I like their philosophy as told by Yifu !

Go Avalon team, after all, you've been first to deliver Asic to customer, you still the winner, and hope you'll be winner again for Asic v2 !

Are you saying in opposite or are you just a 50 cents of Avalon team?

I am sure he has already received his miner, so he couldn't care about those that haven't

No Avalon at all yet... comming soon, I hope !

DoomDumas

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Activity: 1002

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Bitcoin

Quote from: Wayne_Chang on June 17, 2013, 10:15:00 PM

Quote from: DoomDumas on June 17, 2013, 10:00:17 PM

Quote from: chsados on June 17, 2013, 10:07:21 AM

Quote from: Blue777 on June 17, 2013, 05:09:19 AM

not suprised at all.every company will test their machines.maybe one week,maybe few month,who know

They should be using a testnet or sending the coins to the purchasers bitcoin address.

+1

Bought in february, was expecting units mining in my basement at least between mid april and mid may. That's a lot of coins I'll never see the color of..

I also believe Bitsyncom when he told us about production delays out of their control, so I think we dont have to be mad against them.. They seem pretty loyal to bitcoin AFAIK, and I like their philosophy as told by Yifu !

Go Avalon team, after all, you've been first to deliver Asic to customer, you still the winner, and hope you'll be winner again for Asic v2 !

Are you saying in opposite or are you just a 50 cents of Avalon team?

Saying I'm disapointed it take so long to be at my doorstep, but I also think Avalon have been the best in the Asic scene so far ! Whitout Avalon, no Asic for me in summer 2013, except maybe few Jalapenos who will never make their BTC back.. Batch 2 Avalon should at least return me the BTC invested, and some more.. This is fine. Jalapenos that is a complete lost forever, this is not fine !

Avalon = the best so far.. I hope some other company will make good stuff for the Bitcoin Asic, maybe KnCMiner if they can produce and deliver enought.. and I hope several more asic seller, within a year or two, the market should stabilize, and it will be more fair for everyone.

Wayne_Chang

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: dan99 on June 17, 2013, 10:37:46 PM

Quote from: Wayne_Chang on June 17, 2013, 10:15:00 PM

Quote from: DoomDumas on June 17, 2013, 10:00:17 PM

Quote from: chsados on June 17, 2013, 10:07:21 AM

Quote from: Blue777 on June 17, 2013, 05:09:19 AM

not suprised at all.every company will test their machines.maybe one week,maybe few month,who know

They should be using a testnet or sending the coins to the purchasers bitcoin address.

+1

Bought in february, was expecting units mining in my basement at least between mid april and mid may. That's a lot of coins I'll never see the color of..

I also believe Bitsyncom when he told us about production delays out of their control, so I think we dont have to be mad against them.. They seem pretty loyal to bitcoin AFAIK, and I like their philosophy as told by Yifu !

Go Avalon team, after all, you've been first to deliver Asic to customer, you still the winner, and hope you'll be winner again for Asic v2 !

Are you saying in opposite or are you just a 50 cents of Avalon team?

to a certain extend we understand Wayne frustration, because he is probably from China where the Avalon was built and assemble but others have a later order number than his and not from China but already got their Avalon Miner happily mining, now you could imagine how he feels.. very mad

Thanks for your understanding. In fact, I am not the only victim. Many people paid on Feb-2 and 3 are also waiting. Some of them even have no order information in Avalon's web page.

tinoki

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

I never heard any issues with the bitcoin FPGA suppliers on using their customer miner for their own evil deeds maybe the monetary rewards is not there, compares to Asic where they could get much more, is all because of Greed

PaperClip

newbie

Activity: 56

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Some time ago I was trying to estimate ASICs impact on difficulty in time (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2461310)
I ended up with conclusion that a lot of unknown ASICs are mining starting from March. If this unknown miner is Avalon - then half of batch #2 devices are already used for mining. And recent difficulty jump can be caused by batch#3 devices, like 75% of them.

Assuming that Avalon is only one company that produces ASICs, and CPU/GPU/FPGA total power remained in average the same starting from February, then Avalon's impact on difficulty could be following:

(just keep in mind that BFL and any other company can do the same, so this chart cannot be used as ultimate proof)

dan99

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: Wayne_Chang on June 17, 2013, 10:15:00 PM

Quote from: DoomDumas on June 17, 2013, 10:00:17 PM

Quote from: chsados on June 17, 2013, 10:07:21 AM

Quote from: Blue777 on June 17, 2013, 05:09:19 AM

not suprised at all.every company will test their machines.maybe one week,maybe few month,who know

They should be using a testnet or sending the coins to the purchasers bitcoin address.

+1

Bought in february, was expecting units mining in my basement at least between mid april and mid may. That's a lot of coins I'll never see the color of..

I also believe Bitsyncom when he told us about production delays out of their control, so I think we dont have to be mad against them.. They seem pretty loyal to bitcoin AFAIK, and I like their philosophy as told by Yifu !

Go Avalon team, after all, you've been first to deliver Asic to customer, you still the winner, and hope you'll be winner again for Asic v2 !

Are you saying in opposite or are you just a 50 cents of Avalon team?

to a certain extend we understand Wayne frustration, because he is probably from China where the Avalon was built and assemble but others have a later order number than his and not from China but already got their Avalon Miner happily mining, now you could imagine how he feels.. very mad

tinoki

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Wayne_Chang on June 17, 2013, 10:15:00 PM

Quote from: DoomDumas on June 17, 2013, 10:00:17 PM

Quote from: chsados on June 17, 2013, 10:07:21 AM

Quote from: Blue777 on June 17, 2013, 05:09:19 AM

not suprised at all.every company will test their machines.maybe one week,maybe few month,who know

They should be using a testnet or sending the coins to the purchasers bitcoin address.

+1

Bought in february, was expecting units mining in my basement at least between mid april and mid may. That's a lot of coins I'll never see the color of..

I also believe Bitsyncom when he told us about production delays out of their control, so I think we dont have to be mad against them.. They seem pretty loyal to bitcoin AFAIK, and I like their philosophy as told by Yifu !

Go Avalon team, after all, you've been first to deliver Asic to customer, you still the winner, and hope you'll be winner again for Asic v2 !

Are you saying in opposite or are you just a 50 cents of Avalon team?

I am sure he has already received his miner, so he couldn't care about those that haven't

Wayne_Chang

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: DoomDumas on June 17, 2013, 10:00:17 PM

Quote from: chsados on June 17, 2013, 10:07:21 AM

Quote from: Blue777 on June 17, 2013, 05:09:19 AM

not suprised at all.every company will test their machines.maybe one week,maybe few month,who know

They should be using a testnet or sending the coins to the purchasers bitcoin address.

+1

Bought in february, was expecting units mining in my basement at least between mid april and mid may. That's a lot of coins I'll never see the color of..

I also believe Bitsyncom when he told us about production delays out of their control, so I think we dont have to be mad against them.. They seem pretty loyal to bitcoin AFAIK, and I like their philosophy as told by Yifu !

Go Avalon team, after all, you've been first to deliver Asic to customer, you still the winner, and hope you'll be winner again for Asic v2 !

Are you saying in opposite or are you just a 50 cents of Avalon team?

tinoki

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: DoomDumas on June 17, 2013, 10:00:17 PM

Quote from: chsados on June 17, 2013, 10:07:21 AM

Quote from: Blue777 on June 17, 2013, 05:09:19 AM

not suprised at all.every company will test their machines.maybe one week,maybe few month,who know

They should be using a testnet or sending the coins to the purchasers bitcoin address.

+1

Bought in february, was expecting units mining in my basement at least between mid april and mid may. That's a lot of coins I'll never see the color of..

I also believe Bitsyncom when he told us about production delays out of their control, so I think we dont have to be mad against them.. They seem pretty loyal to bitcoin AFAIK, and I like their philosophy as told by Yifu !

Go Avalon team, after all, you've been first to deliver Asic to customer, you still the winner, and hope you'll be winner again for Asic v2 !

We all know they deliver about on time for the 1st batch, but 2rd and 3rd some delays. Now they were found(until proven guilty) using our miners for their own mining, not days, but weeks and months. The most you need to test is 3 days on the average. If they are using for their own mining would they tell you? Yifu seems humble and honest but you don't know the inside and those around him?

DoomDumas

legendary

Activity: 1002

Merit: 1000

Bitcoin

Quote from: chsados on June 17, 2013, 10:07:21 AM

Quote from: Blue777 on June 17, 2013, 05:09:19 AM

not suprised at all.every company will test their machines.maybe one week,maybe few month,who know

They should be using a testnet or sending the coins to the purchasers bitcoin address.

+1

Bought in february, was expecting units mining in my basement at least between mid april and mid may. That's a lot of coins I'll never see the color of..

I also believe Bitsyncom when he told us about production delays out of their control, so I think we dont have to be mad against them.. They seem pretty loyal to bitcoin AFAIK, and I like their philosophy as told by Yifu !

Go Avalon team, after all, you've been first to deliver Asic to customer, you still the winner, and hope you'll be winner again for Asic v2 !

Topic: Is Avalon mining with customer hardware? Answer is here. - page 14. (Read 44379 times)