Topic: Is Avalon mining with customer hardware? Answer is here. - page 18. (Read 44419 times)

Quote from: dropt on June 17, 2013, 01:11:17 PM

Until there are companies that can deliver existing inventory at the drop of a hat, there is nothing to hold these ASIC companies honest.
At least ASICMiner is up front about it. Tongue

ASICMiner is such a company. You get your order delivered within a few days.

I thought that the Eruptor Blade sale was a one time offer of a fixed number of blades. It sold out, and now ASICMiner is not offering more blades yet.
The USB sticks are gimmicks that don't really add much to the hash rate (and are horribly overpriced).

Loredo

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

AM Didn't set that price, the greedy free market did during AM's initial blade auctions.

That's right. But, as a guy named Edward Miller described way back in 1970's in Journal of Finance, when nobody knows what something is worth, it is the optimists who set the price.

The median consensus, which is where a real business needs to tap into to really make money, is somewhere below that. That's why there's a gap in the market that's going to fill, IMO.

dropt

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Rampion on June 17, 2013, 12:34:13 PM

Quote from: 01BTC10 on June 17, 2013, 01:07:02 PM

Until there are companies that can deliver existing inventory at the drop of a hat, there is nothing to hold these ASIC companies honest.
At least ASICMiner is up front about it. Tongue

ASICMiner is such a company. You get your order delivered within a few days.

Yes, for an amount of BTC that you will never ever mine back.

AM Didn't set that price, the greedy free market did during AM's initial blade auctions.

Loredo

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Very easy to spoof a MAC.

Oh, I know. I'm coming to you over a spoofed MAC right now.

EDIT: Not because I'm Evil Hacker. It just makes it a bit harder for the boys at GOOG to keep up with the ad campaigns they have in mind for me.

Loredo

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: ProfMac on June 17, 2013, 01:02:26 PM

To narrow the question down to OpenWRT, which is the router software running on the Avalon, I believe, but have not verified, that the MAC can be spoofed.

So, then, when you say "The MAC address in the TP-Link 703n router is a hard coded serial number that is already in place", that doesn't necessarily imply there might be some way to establish identity of a router instance unambiguously?

01BTC10

vip

Activity: 756

Merit: 503

Quote from: ProfMac on June 17, 2013, 01:02:26 PM

Quote from: Loredo on June 17, 2013, 12:55:47 PM

Quote from: Loredo on June 17, 2013, 12:55:47 PM

The MAC address in the TP-Link 703n router is a hard coded serial number that is already in place. It can be published very easily.

I suspect you are someone who knows the real answer to this: is not any MAC spoof-able at the firewall level? Or is it that at the router, it would actually have to entail firmware hacks that would be virtually impossible?

To narrow the question down to OpenWRT, which is the router software running on the Avalon, I believe, but have not verified, that the MAC can be spoofed. I think this is a standard feature of any commercial "router" today.

In a larger scope, I run lots of software inside a virtual machine. Those MACs can be easily spoofed. One of my VMs has completely cloned the original hardware environment, including the MAC addresses on the original hardware box.

The Cisco and Linksys routers can spoof the MAC address of a LAN side computer.

Very easy to spoof a MAC.

http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/lucid/man1/macchanger.1.html

ProfMac

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Loredo on June 17, 2013, 12:55:47 PM

The MAC address in the TP-Link 703n router is a hard coded serial number that is already in place. It can be published very easily.

I suspect you are someone who knows the real answer to this: is not any MAC spoof-able at the firewall level? Or is it that at the router, it would actually have to entail firmware hacks that would be virtually impossible?

To narrow the question down to OpenWRT, which is the router software running on the Avalon, I believe, but have not verified, that the MAC can be spoofed. I think this is a standard feature of any commercial "router" today.

In a larger scope, I run lots of software inside a virtual machine. Those MACs can be easily spoofed. One of my VMs has completely cloned the original hardware environment, including the MAC addresses on the original hardware box.

The Cisco and Linksys routers can spoof the MAC address of a LAN side computer.

infested999

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 500

The MAC address in the TP-Link 703n router is a hard coded serial number that is already in place. It can be published very easily.

I suspect you are someone who knows the real answer to this: is not any MAC spoof-able at the firewall level? Or is it that at the router, it would actually have to entail firmware hacks that would be virtually impossible?

They could always use a ethernet-relay in between that will spoof the MAC

coinedBit

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

MAC spoofing is a fairly common thing, even without having access to the hardware, like you said.
Transparency would be a good thing, and I do agree that a company providing such a degree of transparency could attract quite a number of potential clients

Loredo

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: tinus42 on June 17, 2013, 12:45:39 PM

The MAC address in the TP-Link 703n router is a hard coded serial number that is already in place. It can be published very easily.

I suspect you are someone who knows the real answer to this: is not any MAC spoof-able at the firewall level? Or is it that at the router, it would actually have to entail firmware hacks that would be virtually impossible?

Loredo

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

You didn't mention them being affordable. Grin

The high prices are a direct result of them having no competition who can deliver quickly. They can set the price as high as the market is willing to accept.

Until somebody comes along who understands what a demand curve looks like in a bubble (as formed by greedy geniuses), and also understands the concept of pricing to sell all the way down to where marginal cost = marginal revenue. And when the risk is sufficiently controllable (or controlled) they will come.

ProfMac

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1002

Quote from: coinedBit on June 17, 2013, 12:37:59 PM

Quote from: ProfMac on June 17, 2013, 11:59:19 AM

I doodle with different ideas of how I might change the design.
Some options that came to mind are:
1. A GPS unit that sends it's location to a well known database.
2. IPv6 with a MAC based address that puts it's identity into a well known ntp servers logs.
3. A "power on" log across the AC power, similar to what lots of high end lab equiptment has.

Agreed, it wouldn't even be particularly difficult to have a "hard-coded" serial number and encode it as part of transactions, including successful mining (so that the complete history of a hardware node would become transparent) - but it isn't really in the interest of vendors obviously, just think about how pissed customers are going to be if they were to learn that their hardware had been running for a couple of weeks and was responsible for >= $1M USD profits at a time when difficulty was comparatively low.

The MAC address in the TP-Link 703n router is a hard coded serial number that is already in place. It can be published very easily.

I think a vendor that supplies this level of transparency will attract quality customers, so I think it is in their interest.

Loredo

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: ProfMac on June 17, 2013, 11:43:11 AM

Vendor: This device will make all the money you can ever spend.
Bitcoiner: I need two.

Lunch time in the US Mountain time zone. Out.

tinus42

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 501

Quote from: Rampion on June 17, 2013, 12:34:13 PM

Quote from: ProfMac on June 17, 2013, 11:59:19 AM

Until there are companies that can deliver existing inventory at the drop of a hat, there is nothing to hold these ASIC companies honest.
At least ASICMiner is up front about it. Tongue

ASICMiner is such a company. You get your order delivered within a few days.

Yes, for an amount of BTC that you will never ever mine back.

You didn't mention them being affordable. Grin

The high prices are a direct result of them having no competition who can deliver quickly. They can set the price as high as the market is willing to accept.

coinedBit

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

I doodle with different ideas of how I might change the design.
Some options that came to mind are:
1. A GPS unit that sends it's location to a well known database.
2. IPv6 with a MAC based address that puts it's identity into a well known ntp servers logs.
3. A "power on" log across the AC power, similar to what lots of high end lab equiptment has.

Agreed, it wouldn't even be particularly difficult to have a "hard-coded" serial number and encode it as part of transactions, including successful mining (so that the complete history of a hardware node would become transparent) - but it isn't really in the interest of vendors obviously, just think about how pissed customers are going to be if they were to learn that their hardware had been running for a couple of weeks and was responsible for >= $1M USD profits at a time when difficulty was comparatively low.

Rampion

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1018

Until there are companies that can deliver existing inventory at the drop of a hat, there is nothing to hold these ASIC companies honest.
At least ASICMiner is up front about it. Tongue

ASICMiner is such a company. You get your order delivered within a few days.

Yes, for an amount of BTC that you will never ever mine back.

tinus42

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 501

Until there are companies that can deliver existing inventory at the drop of a hat, there is nothing to hold these ASIC companies honest.
At least ASICMiner is up front about it. Tongue

ASICMiner is such a company. You get your order delivered within a few days.

Loredo

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100