Topic: Is escrowing for yourself using a secret alt OK? - page 4. (Read 13149 times)

Anyone wanting legitimate information on Quickseller's true identity can simply PM me. I see some people have been offering extraordinary sums of bitcoin for information on QS. Talk to me and show me you're serious and maybe I will give you her info for a price. 

It was not legit so it can be considered as a scam (in my opinion). The other part didn't know that Quickseller was using an alt during the escrow.

You can debate labels, but he did use a secret alt to escrow for himself to get fees.

Seems that at least on a micro level , that was a scam.

No?

Quickseller is not scammer. Vod is just really jealous guy. And he love to stick his nose in not his buisness.

This is because he has not yet scammed anyone. Many DT members have left him a negative rating due to this accusation but still don't believe he is a scammer as he has never attempted a scam. However, I don't trust him anymore and most others here don't trust him as well as his actions seem to be that of a scammer.

No one believes for one second that he would actually try to sue him.

Yeah, imagine him explaining in court: "Well, it was true I was escrowing my own deals but that doesn't make me a scammer."

I would imagine that all internet musings and trollings
fall apart instantly when you're in a real, actual courtroom environment.

Well he made this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1179238.20 and he is going to try to sue him in court. Although if he does, the identity he has been hiding for so long will be known.

Many people before have left negative feedback for shady behaver without any evidence. yet when its quickseller one of the biggest members on the forum and possible future staff member the majority defend the shady behavior even though they admit its shady and very scammy. especially since hes collecting fees for it too

How would you go about doing this? I think it would be more trouble than it's worth.

Maybe if the escrow has split personality disorder, and each of his personalities has his own account, this would then be plausible as ok.
I wouldn't say how that's scamming tho, but no doubt it's not ok to do.

Why would a potential trading partner care whose pocket an escrow fee ends up in? Out of spite? If you were somehow forced to utilize an escrow service, then the price you would be willing to pay for the item would decrease by the amount of the escrow fee, this is regardless of who is "paying" for the fee.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_public_participation

to censor/intimidate/silence critics of

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-dealing

by

OWNGRAVEDIGGER Quickseller

 

I give that threat the same credibility I give the rest of your posts - you are a dishonest thief and your words mean nothing.

Since you have so generously offered to refund the escrow fees of the people you scammed, I have created a ledger to keep track:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/you-are-entitled-to-a-refund-if-you-used-quicksellerpanther52-as-an-escrow-1179179

Why don't you explain how exactly that is me scamming? Both of the people who I refunded explicitly said that they did not feel that I was scamming.

I demand that you retract your statements or else you will be liable for libel.

You are a troll and a coward. You are afraid to stand behind what you say (or else you would have provided an address that I can serve you). You are afraid to make similar statements about tomatocage because you are afraid of him. This is despite the fact that he has engaged in the exact same activity.

You pick on those who you think are not able to counter any of your generalized arguments. You ignore any factual arguments yet instead rely on buzzwords to try to make a point. You consistently take the easy way out. Why do you think it is that you have huge amounts of negative trust when viewed from depth 3 or 4? It is because you were able to troll others hard enough for them to appear to be a scammer, but have no way of fighting back and left you retaliatory negative trust and eventually abandoned their accounts.

You are against people making informed decisions for themselves, you are against free markets, you are a disgrace to bitcoin, and most importantly, you are a disgrace to this community.   

It's been my unfortunate reality that I've had to experience this very closely over the past 5 or 6 months.  I think you can see this again and again if you look at how his reasoning works and his behavior.  Even now, he seems to think that the only way I could have discovered his alt is through some secret tip from an unknown newbie account---I have no idea how he's convinced himself of this.  I find it very strange how little he seems to be able to put himself into anyone else's shoes.  Why didn't he realize how obvious it would be to bring in a sockpuppet account into a thread and repeat the exact same things as the Quickseler account?  You'll note that he continues to suggest that nothing was wrong with his escrow scam because in the "<1% of the cases" where there was a dispute he just "handled it fairly".  He seems unable to comprehend that it's impossible to claim that you're being fair if you're both the judge and the appelant.  

I think he's also making it apparant just how unstable he is.  He goes from chest-thumping (I have other accounts on DT, I will have you removed if you cross me; I'll sue you for libel), to distractions (but tsp is not cool; Vod is an horse's arse), to these incomprehensible justifications (I did nothing wrong, I will never do anything wrong), and then repeats.  These are the same strategies he used in his "argumentation" against me why I asked him to justify his abusive behavior.  The only difference is that he seems to have finally stopped pulling in the sockpuppets (ostensibly).  Obviously these kinds of behaviors are disturbing, and I certainly think that the community here is better off for having seen them first hand, but I actually think there's a bigger lesson to be learned here.

QS made a meal-and-a-half out of quick neg-reps, snap-decisions, and never looking back.  He did this to my account.  I definitely saw him do this to at least a couple of other people.  In each case, because QS was respected, people either wouldn't our couldn't cross him.  He'd follow up with posts about how he's doing a great job and that's why he's right, and in the echo-chamber of an internet forum, it because a kind of self-fulfiling prophecy.  QS' reputation continued to be built on the backs of the accounts he neg-repped.  I know that after I had seen him extrapolate wildly about my own case into a kind of stupor about what he "knows without taking any word from TF", I started to look twice at those untrusted negative feedbacks in his trust page: people that pointed out that he was abusing them, people who called him out for over-obsessing about blockchain "evidence" which could be explained otherwise, people who said he didn't know anything about the situation but had somehow appointed himself judge and left neg reptuation on one or the other party.  Quickseller's inability to put himself into other people's shoes makes him a particularly poor judge, but the real question to me is why so many people blithely followed his self-aggrandizing manouvers.  Why was it the case that you had to actually get falsely neg-repped by Quickseller in order to take a close look at his way of being?

1) I think the lesson to be learned here is twofold: when a reasonable explanation exists for some behavior, people should be given the benefit of the doubt.  I don't think this guilty-until-proven-innocent M.O of QS and alts is helpful.  I think it creates a stifling culture of fear.

2) I think people need to take a close look at mob-mentalities and to check into facts for themselves.  So many people around here traffic in reputations, but reputations are merely histories.  Each new case has facts, and facts can be examined and each person needs to do this for themself, not to rely on the pronouncments from the mighty Quickseller or the Almighty dooglus, or the Great Vod, or the God Theymos or any other such figure.

I also have argued in the past for more decentralization of the trust network, I think it would do a great deal to alleviate the kinds of reputation trafficking abuses that we see Quickseller epitomizing.  I think talking about that too much here would afield of the main topic.  But I hope that people will think a bit about what the Quickseller lesson teaches us about what kind of culture we should seek to establish on this forum.  And what kind of culture leads to toxic schemes and nastiness.

Just my 2 (or 3) satoshis.

--TSP

Quickseller you are full of shit and the constant worming around and twisting of words is doing you no favors at all, I think you have lost more respect on the forum by doing this than just holding your hands up and admitting it was an error in judgment as you never intended to scam anyone and just did it to speed things up.


When someone doing a trade with you asked to use escrow were you -

a) Open and honest that you were Escrowing your own trade.

or

b) Deceptive, leading the person to believe that a 3rd party was acting as escrow and charged them extra for the privilege.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12404224

There you go.  You scammed, you got caught, you returned the money.  And we know there are many more out there that aren't aware you scammed them and they are entitled to a refund.

Do you think if you robbed a bank, got caught and returned the money, they would let you go?

(Proof has been presented yet again to QS.  But I'll take bets that QS will ask for proof yet again...)   

If proof has been presented then you should have no issue pointing to the person who I have stolen from, nor advising the amount I have stolen.

If you are unable to present this evidence then kindly provide an address where you can accept service so I have you served with a libel suit if I choose to do so.