Topic: Is this merit system abuse - page 2. (Read 717 times)

I have already offered my view on this situation in my post above. It's interesting how you are avoiding to answer questions people asked you, and other forum users are the ones that are finding examples of bad merit habits when this is your thread and you are supposed to do that.

So far, nothing has been shared from your end. But according to you, you have observed many cases where legendaries abuse the system, and there are plenty of high-quality posts by newbies that aren't getting merited. But there isn't a single example that you have linked to.     

That's a bad example. It has already been discussed here showing that it was probably an alt account of the same member.
You still haven't shown any examples to prove your point. Please show me an example of a quality post from a newbie member that you think was under-merited.


So what exactly was the point of this thread? You accused senior members of abusing the merit system and being selfish, but now you say that wasn't your intention?

This isn't abuse, it's just an imperfection of the merit system. High rank members get merits for shitposts because they have recognition on this forum, but since they are already high rank, merit becomes purely a vanity stat for them. And despite merit points being a limited resource, it's not like newbies lose something when high ranked members get merited. There's plenty of spare merit in this ecosystem, I personally sit on over 120 sMerit and there's not enough good posts from newbies to give it away.

I see a lot of comments from members who really thinks I'm merit fishing, Honestly I'm sorry if you have this same thought, but honestly speaking that isn't my intentions, this post that senior member of the platform mentioned was actually one of them
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.61111015

Like I earlier said, My post isn't to attack Legendary members, If you feel this way, I'm sorry, I don't mean to upset you legends. It was just an observation which I didn't understand, and intentions here still remains the same, I'm here to seeking knowledge, And it's important that I gat all that leads me here. If possible members who meritted me can unmerit me as that isn't my target for coming here. I will prefer to remain a newbie and be wise than being a high rank member with empty skull. Once again members who feels offended, I'm sorry

If you seek knowledge then the first obstacle you need to overcome is caring more about how much merit others earn and how little you do.

One of the reasons you see people disagreeing with you it's that everyone is tired of this, the same discussions come up month after month, with the same flavor on it, I'm a newbie, I seek knowledge but why is somebody else getting merit and I don't? This is getting frustrating old, some of the legendaries you mentioned are not giving a damn about merit anymore, this is not a race for merit, this is not about having x posts merited, this is a forum about discussion, it's like some perks you're earning and that it, what you're doing here is just letting envy taking over you and I already know what's going to happen, from the hunt for knowledge it's going to turn into merit fishing.


If you think is low content report the post, do your part in cleaning the forum and be done with it.

OP you are not alone on this, every newbie at some point has had same thoughts as yours. When I was also a newbie I had a similar thought.
Sometimes you see a post that a lower rank member put much effort to present which is supposed to earn much  merits but it could end up not getting one but the first or second reply from a high ranked member will get all the merits. It gave me some thoughts as a newbie, not until I understood what was actually happening as I kept growing in rank.

What happens is newbies are not easily trusted with merits.
Some people would not want to send out merit to an account that could be banned the next week. People are also not comfortable sending out merits it to an account which might be an alt account of an established member while some genuine newbies are unmerited.
For you to be trusted with merit you need to spend some time and contribute positively to the forum. When you spend more time here, you will understand that those posts of yours that were previously ignored would be revisited and they will begin to get merits.
That's my observation over time.

Learn these two things from today henceforth:

1. A quality post is not judge by the magnitude of the content but the insight it gives, it is more convenient to read through short, direct and straight forward response that is on point than going through pages of articles you can't figure out a particular idea or taught from it.

2. The Merit system works such a way that you have the right to merit any post you feel gives you an insight, taught or lesson that you'll always remember, it's your judgement and decisions and i know quite alright that you wouldn't want to merit a low quality post since you know what it takes to get one.


When you get there too, be a change agent and Merit quality post regardless of rank, but i can assure you that if you check the low rank members merits statistics thread by LoyceV you would discover many newbies were being merited unknowingly to you, also know that newbie ranks don't last long except for those inactive ones, newbies easily get rank up within a short time.

That's not something I would ever merit, and I am pretty sure if you asked 10 merit sources if that post deserves any merits, all 10 would say it doesn't. But again, OP is talking about several examples he saw where legendaries merit legendaries, neglecting lower ranks. Neither of the two posts we have seen so far are examples of that. And like you said, the trust ratings of the merit sender in this case tells you everything you need to know about that person. This could be an example of purchased merits or meriting your own alt account. 

Technically, using data that runs up to last Friday, these would be the possible candidates that the OP saw, if he is referring to recent sMerit TXs with over 30 sent sMerits:

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/ddmrddmr/viz/shared/C5GY3CHP8

My favourite candidate on the above list would be this post, which is a bad example of what the Merit System should be like in practice. The Trust ratings on both Sender and Receiver tell a story there too, so examples such as this one should be interpreted in their context, and are likely more in line with exceptional misuse than the norm nowadays.

Hey, merit source here.

I'm going to speak out of my personal experience: I was a newbie once. I did earn merits. Apparently, there is something most newbies don't do right.

Would you like to share us some examples? Also, note that some legendaries had a thousand merits airdropped when the merit system was introduced, so these shouldn't be counted.

Feel free to judge my sent merits.

I might like a pair of jeans, while you find them ugly. You might consider the shoes you wear fashionable, but maybe I wouldn't wear them if you gave them to me for free. Posts can be similar to that. I merit whatever I think is good and if I have the needed amount of merits. I don't merit what I don't like or if I don't have the needed merits at the time. So just because I didn't merit a post, doesn't necessarily mean it's bad and I don't like it. It's subjective. Legendary accounts with 3k, 5k, or 10k merits didn't get there by accident or by share luck. Their contributions, quality, and quantity of posting got them there. Each well-thought post is a new chance to get merited. Each new shit post isn't. It just adds to the numbers and nothing else.

It's hard to comment on what you consider a low or a high quality post unless you show proper examples of that. I can then tell you if I agree with those merits or not.

Again there are no examples, which makes it impossible to improve this discussion. Maybe your interpretation of what a quality post should look like is just wrong. 

Link to the post, and let's talk about it. 

Good questions also attract merits. I merit questions and OPs that foster quality discussions. But of course, the solutions to those questions are worth more.     

Try to find a few examples and I will merit them if I find them merit-worthy and have the needed merits.

That post is 4 years old, and it was written just one month after the merit system was implemented on Bitcointalk if I am not mistaken. At the time, people were still getting the hang of it trying to understand how it all worked. And with the airdropped merits, there was a lot to pass along. I am not familiar with the topic of discussion, but the post is not what I consider a shit post. It's something I might merit with 1-2 merits, for example. Not 50 by any means.

I can't comment on the intentions of the merit sender, but I certainly don't agree with the number sent. But that's just me. This example you and someone else mentioned doesn't work in your favor. The whole OP is about how legendary members merit other legendary members and abuse the system. But the receiver in that example is just a Full Member. His rank was even lower at the time the merits were awarded. And the person who sent the merits is a Hero.   

I completely disagree with you, my Legendary member, And it's funny how you draw your conclusion honestly.

The person who introduced me to this platform is a Legendary member, there's nothing stopping him from meriting my post whenever he reads them.

What lead me into Bitcoin talk forum, was simply my zeal to know more about BTC, as well as the trading aspect, Succeeding in the crypto world. I've asked a lot of questions which eventually led to LordB, telling me you know what, there's a place to get all Answers to your questions. That's how I arrived here

If you could read through my explore history, you will realized I've spent so much time in various places and section of the forum, And whenever I found something new or strange I ask questions.

As you know, Questions don't attract merits, Contribution did, do you think I will continue to enclose my self in something I know that yields nothing and still continue. You've got to give it a thought before concluding.

In as much as I also want to be ranked, and share my ranked journey just as every other person,  Knowledge is important and I will definitely go for it, If I wanted a merit or rank, I will simply purchase rank, But what gain does it yield buying a copper member rank, Without proper knowledge of what BTC is.

Going forward, I've encountered lot of random response, which even goes on to get 50, 30, 25, and more merit, at the same time, you will found a newbie account with a superb, Constructive, and informative response, yet no single merit, my only wrong doing is not puting the links together and thanks to the member who brought this one here

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.30856756

I've seen a lot of low quality response like this from ranked members getting so much merit, but a newbie with far more, recieves nothing, My target is to learn as much as I can, so I can also impact someone else, so with all due respect, your Observations and conclusion is totally wrong 100% Respect to you.

A lot of times high ranks get a bad rap of only mostly giving merits to other high ranks. But in the end — why are most of them high ranks in the first place? Because they contribute a lot to the forum in the first place hence why they receive merits!

Of course this doesn't apply to 100% of high ranks; there are definitely abusers, but they're minuscule in the grand scheme of things as far as I know.

Apparently, you read a lot, but understand very little of it all. If you see a post that is of low quality by your standards and that same post has received a lot of merits, then know that the post does not necessarily have to be of high quality in order to receive a merit.


You have been on the forum for too short a time to draw any meaningful conclusions, but all these conclusions stem from the fact that you have received only 1 merit so far, which is obviously frustrating for you. You are not the first or the last to have such a problem, but by persistently presenting your observations, I concluded that you are not here for knowledge, but that you have something completely different in mind - convince me that I am wrong.

One important thing that obviously escaped your observations -> [TOP-200] Members who support newbies

The forum does not directly moderate the Merit System, each user can give Merit to posts objectively with high quality.

Maybe this is one example of what the OP meant https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.30856756.

Don't give up before fighting, I've never heard of the Merit system being unfavorable for Newbies before. Are you aware that there are many Newbies who have succeeded in becoming Legendary after the Merit system was implemented.
The forums have a very generous Merit Source, they will distribute sMerit on worthy posts. No one is excluding anyone if the post they own deserves merit, Merit Source never sees the post belongs to a Newbie or not, they will continue to distribute Merit to whoever has quality posts.

You have to be a quality poster on the forums, tell yourself "GOODBYE SPAMMERS". Improve the quality of posts to get some Merits, only you can determine whether your account level can go to a higher level or not, it all depends on the posts you have.

Since merit awarding is subjective, there is not overly right or wrong usage of them, although the moral compass does kind of point towards the merited posts being interesting in one way or another to the reader at least.

People likely, overtime, grow more keen to visiting certain sections, and may take a shine to some profiles the frequently encounter there for a variety of reasons. In my close to 5 years on the forum, I’ve merited 2.079 different users so far, having sent more than 24K sMerits to date (see data here). Now of course there will be some profiles amongst those I encounter frequently (i.e. on my local board) and others sparecely, despite being quite a few hours on the forum insofar. There is content I may be inclined to read, and other that I find unsubstantial and tend to skip, as well as areas that are not in the scope of my reading habits on the forum.

Of the posts that I do read, more often than not, the best answers are provided by profiles that have been on the forum for quite a while, which is seemingly logical since they know more both of the topics being discussed and the ropes to the forum itself. There are counter examples of course of all sorts, but that is their competitive advantage, built over time.
Lower ranks may find it hard to post something different, that does not reiterate what’s already been said, and therefore find it harder to earn merits. Many of the profiles here have been there, and it’s generally overcome with time and effort, although admittedly at different paces.

There are obviously going to be plenty of meriting examples people would not agree with, thus the intention of the forum to be diverse in criteria though multiple Merit Sources and individual Meriters. Could it be better? Sure, though no solid proposal has been seriously placed on the table that I can recall.

High rank members have been on the forum long enough to have built that network of "friends/colleagues " which means they already have an audience that recognizes them.

Then comes the issue of newbies getting little to zero merits for the so called constructive posts, well not getting any is simply trying to promote consistency in those good posts and lastly one has to go through the venting process to ensure you are a real user with good intentions and not a farmer. Put in the work it will sure pay, just hang in there mate.

Merit abuse is when you send smerits to your alt accounts, or you trade smerits for BTC or any other type of payment option, i do not consider sending a big number of smerits to a member as merit abuse because Theymos said:

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Not earning merits and seeing other users earn them doesn't make it merit abuse just because it is not in your favor then, it may be happening for many reasons. Post quality aside, this quote from Pmalek seems to be the main reason why member's may not get merits from merit sources and member's that aren't merit sources, you may not be showing up in topics that interest them:

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These threads help to make it easier if you are not showing up in topics that interest merit sources as it takes your post directly to them:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--5410264
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/self-moderated-report-unmerited-good-posts-to-merit-source-5093271
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/merit-share-your-best-poststhreads-with-fillippone-to-be-merit-assessed-5412657

Older members are more likely to stay here so I think that plays a big role in it. I've seen quite a few newer members with lots of merit and more merits than activity so I doubt it's a full "everyone's selfish" and more an "I'm a bad quality poster" or "I don't post in the boards where most merits are given" with the additional option of being someone who posts a lot of questions and doesn't contribute as much to topics or themselves by offering something interesting to the discussion.

A lot of merit sources would also rather use up their source merits than just have them burnt so there's probably a role that plays too in all this. If you're enjoying the forum, don't look at merits because they'll probably come soon anyway if you're a good poster or become one.

Some people like to give out merits to legendary members because they value their opinion more than for say, a newbie account. I don't think this is abuse because you own the merits so you can send it to whoever you want (unless you're a merit source).

Do you mind posting those low quality posts that got merited ? so that we can all see if it's true or not.