Topic: Israel: Operation Protective Edge - page 20. (Read 14700 times)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbHSiQyCPTw

when there is bad news for bitcoin, it will become headlines in the mainstream media around the world; when there is good news for bitcoin, the mainstream media keep quiet
until today, many ignorant people still think bitcoin had gone bankrupt when mtgox collapse

wake up people, don't trust everything you read in the mainstream media

History of the Israeli Palestinian Conflict

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9Q_8ZrYku4

U.N.: 1 child killed in Gaza every hour
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/palestinian-child-killed-every-2-hours-in-gaza-un-israel-hamas

w?

Jihadi cleric calls for Muslim fighters to join the fighting in Gaza By ARIEL BEN SOLOMON

"Our heart yearns to arrive and fight the sons and brothers of the apes and pigs," says rebel fighter. isis caliphate

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Jihadi-cleric-calls-for-Muslim-fighters-to-join-the-fighting-in-Gaza-368628

More and video...http://news.yahoo.com/world-suspension-israel-flights-great-victory-hamas-161508458.html

this is completely off topic and complete garbage.
Frankly I find the suggestion that Genocide is a solution to be very offensive.

WWII was resolved with finality because there were only 2 empires that controlled half of the world.
German and Japan..

both Germany and Japan were controlled from the top, they were both dictatorships with rigid hierarchies so once you removed the will to fight from the top the war was over.

This is not how insurgencies and guerrilla wars like vietnam and afghanistan operate.
the power structure is divided into cells there is no central control.

the Americans did try scorched earth in vietnam and it failed. it failed because it only fuelled the resolve of people of Vietnam to resist the invasion. and by the way Vietnam never attacked america.. they had no business being there at all..

movements like Hamas and now the problems in Fundamentalists in Iraq are like Hydras.. you cut off one head and another one grows.
it doesn't matter how many people you kill the more violent path is always doomed to fail because the more innocents you kill the more it turns the people against you and the people are the ones providing the soldiers not the military.

frankly Isreal are recklessly ignorant for not knowing this... but then again.. most right wing politicians are.. they stoke war because it is the warmongers that vote for them in the elections.

the way to deal with any insurgency is to convince the insurgents that life is better on your side.
this is how Communist Vietnam while having defeated the USA was actually eventually won over by them in the end.

this is how china and russia moved away from stalinism to embrace the free market.
the cold war was won with carrots not with sticks. The russians knew that they couldn't keep building weapons as their standard of living was declining.. and the Chinese knew they were falling behind economically.

if the Irealis really wanted lasting peace then they would help the people of gaza.. and I mean genuinely help the people.. but they do not want lasting peace they just want status quo. Which is: a state of the jews, for the jews and encompassing all the lands that were once held by jews 2000 years ago. they don't want Palestinians to come and live with them as equals with full equal rights and they don't want to give up the settlements in the west bank... neither of those options is acceptable to the Zionist movement.  An Isreal where the jews are in the minority is unthinkable and so is an isreal on only half of gods land.

Isreal has no carrot to give the Palestinians that is why they always use the stick.
and this is why they will eventually lose.

because what they are doing is immoral, unjust, unethical and unsustainable.
as for Hamas, they will lose too for the same reasons.

And the Groznyy bombing was a complete failure. Ordered by that drunkard Yeltsin, the bombings killed tens of thousands of civilians, most of whom were ethnic Russians with anti-separatist leanings (esp. children and the elderly). One of the reasons why more than 75% of those killed during the Chechen wars were ethnic Russians.

The bombings had no effect on the rebels, as very few ethnic Chechens died during that.

Not really. You can fight an insurgency with the same weapons one would use in a conventional war. Russia did so quite nicely in Chechnya by using massive conventional firepower on Grozny and other insurgent-held, civilian-populated targets. Indeed, the sheer indiscriminate nature, destruction, and terror imposed on the civilian population helps to deter their resistance.

I’d suggest the fact that the Allies demonstrated a pretty clear resolve that killing civilians to achieve victory was acceptable is the entire reason why World War II was so successful while Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan were not. Perhaps if America had opened up the war by turning Kandahar into a firestorm like Dresden, it would have sent a clearer message of what the price of attacking America is.

It took 26 years because they kept getting distracted by Western bleeding hearts forcing them into peace talks. When they finally decided to just crush the Tamils, it worked fairly quickly. Sudan doesn’t have anything remotely close to Israel’s overwhelming conventional force either, so it’s a bad example.

You can’t realistically hope to stop insurgencies by providing a “legitimate alternative.” It’s basically never worked in a situation like Israel-Palestine. OTOH, the brute force method worked well in the North Caucasus in the 1940s and has been a lot more effective at pacifying Chechnya compared to American efforts in Afghanistan. It also did pretty well in 1991 when Saddam crushed Shia uprisings against his rule that, at their peak, caused him to lose control of the vast majority of Iraq.

that's just it.. they aren't in a neighboring country Isreal / Palestine is the same land and the same country.

If one day you were happily sitting in your house and someone came along at gun point and forced you and your family onto the street.. what would you do? stand there and hold up a sign saying "can I have my house back please?"... even if you did that.. could you do it for 50 years?

Now clearly the violence is not getting anyone anywhere but you cant really blame them for being frustrated considering they have been forced to live blockaded and surrounded on all sides by walls, fences and guns pointed at them.

its not like they have a choice to leave. Its not like they can tell the extremists in their group to "go away".. its not like they can store their weapons "away from civilians" they are all locked in together in a very densely packed tight space.

Collective responsibility merits collective punishment. Gaza's population supported Hamas, and acquiesces to, if not outright supports the Salafists. It makes absolute sense to hold them collectively responsible for allowing terrorists to operate amongst them.

Of course using collective punishment like that in the Congo is stupid. It would be stupid to kill civilians in Herat or other non-Pashtun regions of Afghanistan in response to the Taliban’s insurgency for the same reason. In either case, they’re far removed from the conflict and don’t really have the ability to intervene.

In contrast, the Salafists are operating amongst civilians in Gaza. The civilians aren’t making any serious attempt to stop them and in all probability, are actively aiding them. If the M23 were getting support from particular villages, then it would make sense to target those civilians. Similarly, Pashtun villages that collaborate with insurgents should be demolished by carpet bombing. Gaza’s civilians must be taught to stop supporting people who attack Israel, so it makes sense to collectively punish them.

Personally, I’d be far less restrained than the Israelis were being if insurgents in some neighboring country were firing rockets at mine.

Half of Israel's six million Jews are from North Africa, Southwest Asia, and Ethiopia. The other three million are Eastern European.

I just had to clarify this.

No archaeological evidence exists that denies various groups of “sea people” were in Canaan long before the arrival of the main body in the early twelfth century B.C. (see Unger, 1954, p. 91; Archer, 1964, p. 266; Harrison, 1963, p. 32). To assume that not a single group of Philistines lived in Palestine during the time of Abraham because archaeology has not documented them until about 1190 B.C. is to argue from negative evidence and is without substantial weight. In response to those who would deny the Philistines’ existence based upon their silence in the archeological world before this time, professor Kitchen stated: “Inscriptionally, we know so little about the Aegean peoples as compared with those of the rest of the Ancient Near East in the second millennium B.C., that it is premature to deny outright the possible existence of Philistines in the Aegean area before 1200 B.C.” (1966, p. 80n). Likely, successive waves of sea peoples from the Aegean Sea migrated to Canaan, even as early as Abraham’s time, and continued coming until the massive movement in the twelfth century B.C. (Archer, 1970, p. 18).
https://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=6&article=671

By this logic since Israelis are mostly Russian and Polish and should be summarily sent back to their countries of origin.
Ignorant biased comment
200 Palestinians killed -> Human shields, missiles hidden in their houses
2 Israeli soldiers killed -> War crime

I think if you study the past you will find that Jews and Palestinians have a shared history of 3000 years..
education is the key to social harmony. what hamas and isreal are doing right now is filling their peoples heads with propaganda.

the only thing that can fix that is dialog and education.

You can thank Israeli conservatives for that. Meanwhile, the IDF is shelling Shajayea and has killed over 60 Palestinians there.

I really cannot comprehend how there is an "anti isreal" argument in this, let alone mass riots in other countries against them defending their citizens.

It pretty much is this is my mind... If you are against Isreal in this conflict, you are an anti-semitic piece of shit human who deserves to die choking on your own feces.

European countries do not want the baboons running wild in the streets. They're already suffering with riots in the likes of France - where Muslim riots seem like an annual event.

I think most Israelis believe that a two state solution needs to be tried, but also believe that it won't be the end of the conflict.

The question is, how big a price will Israel have to pay to try this two state solution out - and if it proves to be disastrous with continued attacks on Israel, will they finally be vindicated? or will they (as I suspect) still get the blame in some measure.
.....and 13 Israeli Soldiers have died in an operation in Gaza.