You have to rethink the term Terrorist, who is doing the terrorising and is killing more civilians while trying to claim legitimacy.
Look at the outrage from around the world https://secure.avaaz.org/en/israel_palestine_this_is_how_it_ends_rb/?bZABTbb&v=42735
Topic: Israel: Operation Protective Edge - page 24. (Read 14700 times)
if people are really interested in continuing the debate I would urge you to listen to this lecture.
it explains the occupation in great detail from the perspective of an Isreali man who's entire family was instrumental in the creation of the state of Isreal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVBlNiD1XdI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtMpwvZ4qlY
if you put your preconceptions to one side for a moment, you might actually learn something...
it explains the occupation in great detail from the perspective of an Isreali man who's entire family was instrumental in the creation of the state of Isreal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVBlNiD1XdI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtMpwvZ4qlY
if you put your preconceptions to one side for a moment, you might actually learn something...
More than 20 members of one family killed in Gaza strike
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/21/gaza-hospital-shelling-air-strike-israel-idf
Can't really say this is a proportionate response to Hamas' homemade missiles.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/21/gaza-hospital-shelling-air-strike-israel-idf
Can't really say this is a proportionate response to Hamas' homemade missiles.
Listen to the voice of reason from a peace activist who is the son of an isreali general and grandson of one of the founders of isreal.
a very frank and candid discussion that restores some of my faith in humanity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SuuCa3CiXY
a very frank and candid discussion that restores some of my faith in humanity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SuuCa3CiXY
As for the Arab population already living in Israel, let's not forget that they are still treated as second class citizens, subject to a lot of discrimination, ranging from how they are portrayed in the public discourse, to an imbalance in the distribution of resources that leaves many Arab communities impoverished, and with limited access to education and healthcare.
The resource distribution they receive is equal to all other cities out there, whether arab or not. The reason their cities are sub par with non arab ones is their own doing.
Their majors and local representatives allocate the funds elsewhere (corruption and whatnot) and more so, a lot of arabs do not actually pay tax so whatever funds they suppose to get back from their tax they do not receive.
And as far as their public appearance, it's their own doing.
You can barely see any Israeli-arabs supporting the co-existence with Israeli-Jews whereas the ones that wish to spread hate, just hope on a bus and go from one arab city to another and spread the hate there without interference from local folks.
Actually, that was the case until for the first time, a few weeks ago, they were stopped at Akko by local merchants who did not want the riots to cause Jewish tourists not to come visit.
Hopefully more Arab-Israelis will stand up for the country they live in.
Also, their political representative do nothing for them at the Knesset. All they meddle with is the palestinians and not the people they should represent. Sad.
So basically, in your view, if they are discriminated against or effectively have worse living conditions than non-Arabs, it's all their own fault. Do you think your opinion could perhaps be a bit... biased? And you can argue that there is corruption and that accounts for some of the discrepancy, but to say they aren't effectively treated as second class citizens and afforded less resources directly by the central government is ridiculous. But don't take my word for it, go check the Human Rights Watch or the US State Department's country reports on human rights practices on Israel, for example. If you're into lighter reading, I believe Haaretz occasionally reports on this subject as well.
Still, and getting back to what I was saying (in the part you didn't quote), this is irrelevant to the point, as Israel doesn't want a one state solution to begin with, or for that matter a two state solution that would leave a viable Palestinian state.
Attacking the source doesn't disprove the accusations. Israel initially denied, but eventually had to admit to using white phosphorous rounds in Gaza in the 2008/2009 war, on densely populated areas, even ending up hitting a UN compound with them. In relation to depleted uranium and DIME rounds, it is widely believed that Israel used these types of weapons since at least 2006, and the cancer inducing effects of these types of ammunition have been studied for over a decade; Iraqi civilians, for example, are still suffering from these effects with the depleted uranium rounds used by the US.
Israel admitted using it according to the international law. The UN concurred this as well.And it wasb't dropped or used "on" densely populated areas (that implies that that's was its main intent).
It was used to mask soldiers in order to evacuate them.
You're technically right in that white phosphorous rounds aren't illegal when not being used for their incendiary or toxic capabilities, but its "systematically reckless" use (Goldstone Report) on densely populated areas still had the predictable consequences on the civilian population: killing and wounding scores of civilians, property damage, the UN compound set on fire, destroying tons of humanitarian aid, and at least one hospital similarly being set on fire, forcing its evacuation. Further, in many cases which Human Rights Watch investigated its use, there were no Israeli forces nearby which would have required it be used, and further pointed out that there are far safer alternatives that can replace white phosphorus rounds.
And if you didn't like the article Chef Ramsay presented merely on account of its source, here's another from Haaretz, also commenting on Israel's likely use of DIME weapons in Gaza: http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/norwegian-doctor-israel-used-new-type-of-weapon-in-gaza-1.268394.
And Palestine is even smaller, your statement that Israel should never negotiate with Hamas then why should the Palestinians negotiate with Israel
You cannot have preconditions to negotiations. Israel thinks they entitled to some special status why should they be. Yasser Arafat was a dove compared to Hamas but Israel continually found excuses to dismiss him now look what they got. The complications Israel faces are self-inflicted and deliberate, Israel needs to get real and stop thinking the world owes it any special favours, engage with Hamas and all the Palestinians without any preconditions.This fact is undeniable.
When Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by an Extremist Zionist (Yigal Amir) the best hope for peace was lost. nobody knows who killed Arafat if anyone did at all, but together they were Isreals/Palestines best chance for peace.
the enemies of peace are inside Isreal as much as they are inside Hamas.
as the conflict continues the good people are killed or flee.. the only ones left are radicalized extremists.
Again what does Israel expect, they occupy Palestine build illegal settlements and the Palestinians must just accept their occupation without retaliation
Israel must stop drinking its own cool aid The Palestinians have the right to resist their occupation and the continued illegal settlements on their land. Do you think US or any other country would accept this behaviour on their soil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXRO1YFreNA
It stopped being their "soil" (never was) the moment they declared war and lost. Israel must stop drinking its own cool aid The Palestinians have the right to resist their occupation and the continued illegal settlements on their land. Do you think US or any other country would accept this behaviour on their soil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXRO1YFreNA
And if they choose to "resist", violently, than they need to accept that they're going to die.
Their instigation and support of violence is staggering.
And also, there's no occupation, gaza is an autonomy, with its own government and a border to Egypt, granted Israel blocks all of their borders on its side, but with a damn good reason - as history has shown, they use the good will to smuggle weapons for suicide bombers and rockets.
Israel using Flechette shells against civilian populations
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israel-using-flechette-shells-in-gaza
It is clear that Israel is the true aggressor here. They murder thousands of Palestinian civilians and then expect not to be hated? What a joke!
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israel-using-flechette-shells-in-gaza
It is clear that Israel is the true aggressor here. They murder thousands of Palestinian civilians and then expect not to be hated? What a joke!
Again what does Israel expect, they occupy Palestine build illegal settlements and the Palestinians must just accept their occupation without retaliation
Israel must stop drinking its own cool aid The Palestinians have the right to resist their occupation and the continued illegal settlements on their land. Do you think US or any other country would accept this behaviour on their soil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXRO1YFreNA
Israel must stop drinking its own cool aid The Palestinians have the right to resist their occupation and the continued illegal settlements on their land. Do you think US or any other country would accept this behaviour on their soil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXRO1YFreNA
Yes and Israel only knows occupation and violence
And Palestine is even smaller, your statement that Israel should never negotiate with Hamas then why should the Palestinians negotiate with Israel You cannot have preconditions to negotiations. Israel thinks they entitled to some special status why should they be. Yasser Arafat was a dove compared to Hamas but Israel continually found excuses to dismiss him now look what they got. The complications Israel faces are self-inflicted and deliberate, Israel needs to get real and stop thinking the world owes it any special favours, engage with Hamas and all the Palestinians without any preconditions.
You cannot have preconditions to negotiations. Israel thinks they entitled to some special status why should they be. Yasser Arafat was a dove compared to Hamas but Israel continually found excuses to dismiss him now look what they got. The complications Israel faces are self-inflicted and deliberate, Israel needs to get real and stop thinking the world owes it any special favours, engage with Hamas and all the Palestinians without any preconditions.Hamas only know violence, Israel is already negotiating with them in their language.
Here's my peace process plan:
Point 1: Israel withdraws from the West Bank. In exchange, Israel gets 2 Los Angeles Class submarines, 10 F-22s, and 20 F-35s. Afterwards, it annexes all of East Jersualem and gives Arabs living their equal rights as Israeli citiizens. It then annexes the Golan Heights and gives everyone there equal rights as Israeli citizens.
Point 2: Mahmoud Abbas cuts ties with Hamas in exchange for an Israeli guarantee to never expand territory, even after winning any future defensive wars.
Point 3: Israel agrees to never expand territory as long as the Golan Heights, pre-1967 Israel, and a united Jerusalem (East and West) are recognized as Israeli and Ramallah becomes the Palestinian capitol.
Point 4: Israel makes peace with the Palestinians and with all of its neighbors and they work together financially and politically.
That is my 4 point plan.
Israel would never agree to this, and even if Netanyahu had a stroke and said ok his government would collapse the minute he did so. His current governing coalition depends on continued occupation of the West Bank and continued settlement expansion. To give that up would be to resign as PM.Point 1: Israel withdraws from the West Bank. In exchange, Israel gets 2 Los Angeles Class submarines, 10 F-22s, and 20 F-35s. Afterwards, it annexes all of East Jersualem and gives Arabs living their equal rights as Israeli citiizens. It then annexes the Golan Heights and gives everyone there equal rights as Israeli citizens.
Point 2: Mahmoud Abbas cuts ties with Hamas in exchange for an Israeli guarantee to never expand territory, even after winning any future defensive wars.
Point 3: Israel agrees to never expand territory as long as the Golan Heights, pre-1967 Israel, and a united Jerusalem (East and West) are recognized as Israeli and Ramallah becomes the Palestinian capitol.
Point 4: Israel makes peace with the Palestinians and with all of its neighbors and they work together financially and politically.
That is my 4 point plan.
I feel that we should never negotiate with Hamas. Negotiating with Hamas is like negotiating with Ayman Al Zawahari. We do not negotiate with Al Qaeda just like we should not negotiate with Hamas. Hamas's control of Gaza makes it harder for Israel to do anything else other than what it is doing.
And Palestine is even smaller, your statement that Israel should never negotiate with Hamas then why should the Palestinians negotiate with Israel
You cannot have preconditions to negotiations. Israel thinks they entitled to some special status why should they be. Yasser Arafat was a dove compared to Hamas but Israel continually found excuses to dismiss him now look what they got. The complications Israel faces are self-inflicted and deliberate, Israel needs to get real and stop thinking the world owes it any special favours, engage with Hamas and all the Palestinians without any preconditions.We should try, at least. You should at least try before you say it didn't work.
I'm saying it wouldn't change anything if Abbas broke ties with Hamas. Netanyahu still wouldn't engage in meaningful peace talks with Abbas (we already saw that play out for years). In fact, that's exactly why Hamas and Abbas ended up moving forward with a unity deal in the first place. The unity government isn't preventing peace or reconciliation. 
We should try, at least. You should at least try before you say it didn't work.
The United States and its voters need to change their thinking. Pressure works and we simply aren't in a strong enough position domestically to be able to put pressure on Israeli administrations to adhere to a peace deal.
Only a western country can be stupid enough to put pressure on a good ally...
Then both sides really need to change their thinking.
The United States and its voters need to change their thinking. Pressure works and we simply aren't in a strong enough position domestically to be able to put pressure on Israeli administrations to adhere to a peace deal. Then both sides really need to change their thinking.
The United States and its voters need to change their thinking. Pressure works and we simply aren't in a strong enough position domestically to be able to put pressure on Israeli administrations to adhere to a peace deal. 
Then both sides really need to change their thinking.
The United States and its voters need to change their thinking. Pressure works and we simply aren't in a strong enough position domestically to be able to put pressure on Israeli administrations to adhere to a peace deal. Jump to: