Topic: Israel's future war: War of God and Magog - page 4. (Read 2791 times)

It is clear, in Romans 11 for example, that he is talking about Israel the nation - as it was (when he wrote) rejecting Jesus.

It is not Christians here below that are experiencing the hardening.  Israel here below is not symbolic.

25 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in;
26 and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Christians are people who are christ like.  No man going about and killing others is truly a christian, stop letting their facade deceive you.

Religion is originally about love.  It has been severely basterdized over the years.  Those that practice fear and hatred in the name of peace and god are no more than satanic beings weather they are concious of it or not.

Romans speaks of Israel being "grafted" back into the olive tree or body, putting back what was natural to begin with, but included back into the new, not the old. I take it to mean a natural Jew, someone familiar with the old laws.

Not sure what you mean by prophecies still needing to be fulfilled by the nation of Israel, i see no clear language for that. I don't see a turning to Christ as a nation, or the boarders we call Israel....unlikely don't you think? with all the hardcore tradition and secular nature of the nation

That is pretty interesting, and probably has alot of merit.  Why wont the orthodox not fight in the army?

What is happening is because they breed like dogs with litters of more than a dozen per family, they are out-breeding the secular and other non-Orthodox citizens. There is pressure on the secular to emigrate which will further increase the Orthodox as a percentage of the population.  Remember, they won't don the army uniform and defend their state so the onus remains with a steadily decreasing number of non-orthodox Jews. There will come a time when there won't be enough taxpayers to fund the Orthodox lifestyle.  Will American taxpayers take up the task?

  Israel won't last long as a state as envisioned by Zionists under these circumstances.

Ok I think I need to revise that.   The nation of Israel coming into being - Truman recognizing it may have been influenced by prophecy, I dont know.  It was influenced, from what I understand, from the Bible, but also from what the Jews went through in Europe, etc.

And I was commenting on US foreign policy - Iranian foreign policy may very well be influenced by Shia eschatalogy.

I don't think the invasion of Iraq, or support of Libya, or giving bunker bombs to Israel recently (whatever the merits of those actions), were due to giving heed to any prophetic understanding.

OK, in Israel you have the Orthodox Jews who do nothing except study the Talmud and breed.  They don't work and live on money devoted to them by the state, ie taxes paid by non-Orthodox  members of society.  Nor do they figure in the armed forces.

I would disagree with you, about God having no more plans for the actual nation of Israel - he has some unfinished prophecies otherwise.  Including what Jesus says in Acts about restoring the kingdom of Israel, and Paul in Romans.

That does not negate God have a dual purpose to some of the passages.

But, either way, yes, one would want to exercise great care in foreign policy in seeking to bring about any such.  Nor do I think anyone generally has.

Matthew 24:22
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Niether do I, and i agree people will use their interpretations of prophesy to not only gain political power, but guide foreign policy. Israel isn't powerful enough on their own to do that, nor do i think they want to  .

Ancient prophesy ?That is just a lame excuse for continued hatred and prejudice.
I don't see the Jews declaring a holy war. No one really give a flying fuck about ancient prophesy. There are people with stone-age intellect with their fingers on nuclear weapons.

Notice the fig tree is withered by Christ and He says no fruit will grow on it forever, yet in the other verse its said it will be in leaf again, and then summer is near (meaning the last days)....1948 Israel becomes a nation

anyway on to those parallels of national Israel and Christ

In the Old Testament, a young man named Joseph had dreams and went into Egypt to preserve his family alive (Genesis 45:5). In the New Testament we find another Joseph, who likewise had dreams and then went to Egypt to preserve his family (Matthew 2:13).
When the young nation of Israel came out of Egypt, God called that nation "my son" in Exodus 4:22. When the baby Jesus came out of Egypt, God said, "Out of Egypt have I called my son." Matthew 2:15.
When Israel left Egypt, the people went through the Red Sea. The apostle Paul says they were "baptized unto Moses ... in the sea." 1 Corinthians 10:2. Jesus was also baptized "to fulfill all righteousness," and immediately afterward God proclaimed Him, "my beloved Son" (Matthew 3:15-17).
After the Israelites went through the Red Sea, they spent 40 years in the wilderness. Immediately after His baptism, Jesus was "led up of the Spirit into the wilderness" for 40 days (Matthew 4:1, 2).
At the end of their 40-year wilderness wandering, Moses wrote the book of Deuteronomy. At the end of Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness, He resisted Satan's temptations by quoting three Scriptures-all from Deuteronomy!
In Psalm 80:8, God calls Israel a "vine" that He brought "out of Egypt." Yet Jesus later declared, "I am the true vine." John 15:1. In the Old Testament, the name "Israel" first applied to one man, to Jacob. It represented Jacob's spiritual victory over sin. Even so, in the beginning of the New Testament we discover that Jesus Christ is the new Israel who came "out of Egypt." He is the one victorious Man who overcame all sin!
http://www.bibleprophecytruth.com/topics/israel-in-prophecy.aspx

Any time it looks like Israel is going to war, everyone screams "Gog & Magog!!!"

And what's so stupid is that's it usually the idiot Christians who scream the loudest, especially since they think they know more about Hebrew scripture and prophecy than the Jews do.
Pretty silly that ingorant people reading the English translation of the greek translation of the Aramaic translation of a Hebrew scripture think they know more about the Hebrew scriptures than the Hebrews themselves do.

Talk about the epitome of hubris and arrogance!!? But, that's what Sunday School will do to you. You get the quality education you pay for.

some ideas you might want to look at as far as this thing about Israel being the center of attention in the last days. The basic idea i'm putting forth is national Israel was only one aspect of the spiritual Israel, and parallels Christ and His church as the New Testament (and in some cases the Old too) point to that as the new Israel. I'll post those parallels and give a link i found that explains further. Also if you ever did word searches such as 'fig tree' which is identified with national Israel these verses are then interesting

Matthew 21:19
And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

Matthew 24:32
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

The current confrontation with Iran does not seem to fit in with the scenario described by Ezekiel (though it may be one of the steps along the way).

And, on a related note, Rosenburg wrote a fctional book called the 12th Iman - some of the overlapping themes with the news lately is interesting.

Considering the same thing has been happening ever since anyone ever heard the words "Gog and MAGog" even when it was thought the Scythians (oddly enough who were Iranian!) Then the Romans; Attila the Hun; etc...etc.....  none of those came true either.

That is what is so interesting about several of his points - many of the prophecies he points to are far from obscure, etc.  Which is why several political leaders have found them of interest, given today's current events.

That is not unusual (spiritual Israel), both in prophecy and application.  I think (I am not sure though) that it also somehow applies to how some Christians view the US (how they approach the Old Testament).


As far as Joel Rosenberg, he has written some interesting and popular fiction - fiction that seems even some political leaders have taken an interest in (it being fiction based on biblical prophesy).  But, it is only recently that I am reading a non fiction book by him, a quite interesting one, on today's Moslems, and the struggles going on between three main groups.

That's the thing about obscure, unspecific, nonsensical "prophesy", you can make it say anything you'd like.

I guess i lean more toward a spiritual Israel, but i don't think i have much more to add right now. I never heard of Joel Rosenberg but have heard this idea. I don't think its wrong to study from people or denominations who have been down the roads one is currently driving on, just don't listen to one only, and stay objective seeking your own answers
I'll probably visit this forum more often 

Zolace do understand that Rigon's version of Gog & MaGog carries as much intellectual weight does Winnie The Pooh getting his nose unstuck from  of a honey jar.