Topic: Israel's future war: War of God and Magog - page 5. (Read 2791 times)

Of course you don't "remember". It was never a part of your religious brainwashing Sunday School class.

Piefoot is correct in mentioning  that the Messiah will rebuild the Temple. That's Jewish tradition.

 Is just making this up as he goes according to whatever Christian bullshit artists he happens to be listening to at the moment.

As a nation?  I do.  At least, Zachariah is talking about the Jews turning to Him who they have pierced and mourning over it.

The temple - I dont remember if it is mentioned in Revelation.  But, you see in the epistles the writers referring to the Old Testament - they accepted it as the Word of God, as did Jesus.  So (and I am not familiar with the passages), if it does refer to a rebuilt temple in the future, I would not discount it simply because it is in the OT

I'm not real familiar with Zechariah, but i take it you think Israel will turn to Christ as a nation? Some say a new temple will be built but thats from Old Testament

Romans is referring to a believer; Zachariah is referring to someone who has not accepted the Messiah.

In this case, Jews who have not (many have of course, even in Israel, but still quite the majority).

On top of it, since even Paul refers to physical Jews in his writings, and thus context helps, the Zach passage also refers to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the House of David. Zach is referring to the Jews themselves.

An interesting passage discussing the repentance of the Jews as they look upon Him whom they have pierced.

just wonder which passage, but it still could mean something other then a blood jew

Romans 2-25-29
25For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Some speak about a new Jerusalem

An interesting passage discussing the repentance of the Jews as they look upon Him whom they have pierced.

8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Ah, ok.  Yeah, you are right, one does have to look at the context when the word 'Israel' appears - true for anything, really, though alot of things will mean what they say when isolated.

But, context does add flavor - sometimes alot - to a passage (and not just scripture).

I'm not an expert i just mix and compare what i read and understand. The term "Israel" has been defined in different ways not just as a nation, same as the word Jew. So just looking at this from the point that the nation of Israel will turn to Jesus as a national policy seems far fetched. They seem a combination of secular as well as old school. On the other hand Paul speaks about the Jews being grafted back into the tree or body, with the Gentiles and even warned the Gentiles the Jews could be favored again. I'm rarely dogmatic when i discuss scripture 

Where does Daniel say that Israel does not play a major role as suggested by his fellow prophet Ezekiel?

In the sense that he believes Israel becoming a nation plays a major role then yes in conflicts. The bible says when the fig tree is in leave, however they are not bearing fruits, or believing in Jesus. They are just a sign the time is near, because Jews have a homeland thats all, but they play no major role.

God's church is still scattered with believers all over, not the churches themselves so much because which denominations or sect leads? I think the larger churches, in particular the papacy, is where the false prophet may arise. This coupled with an alliance with other large denominations and political powers

That is interesting - are you saying that conflicts with what Joel is suggesting above?

I'm not so sure all this pans out with the current countries we see. In the book of Daniel the vision he saw in the kings dream was made up of 4 powers reinstating themselves in our day. Babylon, persia, greece and Rome. The last one Rome which was made of iron, and feet of iron and clay, would be a world empire made up of secular and religious power which would be the beast and false prophet lead by the anti-christ given power from satan
This evil trinity so to speak makes war with the saints. Powers from the north i believe is symbolic to represent evil, such an example would be when the south of Israel was the last standing, as northern part drifted toward idolatry

There's others examples of this north and south representing good and evil that i can't remember right now, if i have time i'll look for it  

And to finish (to the joy of some no doubt):

  1  While we know these events will all happen in the “last days” (38:16), we cannot determine whether the “War of Gog and Magog” will happen before the Rapture (when the Lord suddenly snatches born again believers in Jesus off of the earth, prior to the Tribulation) or not, because the text does not tell us one way or the other.
   
  2  That said, I believe it is very possible — not certain, but very possible – that these events will unfold within this generation, and possibly quite soon. We are certainly seeing geopolitical events unfolding in a way consistent with Ezekiel 38-39.
   
  3  Therefore, the most important question we must ask is this: Since the Lord in Ezekiel 38:7 told Gog, the enemy of Israel, to “get ready, be prepared,” then what should Israelis themselves and friends of Israel be doing?
   
  4  Shouldn’t we, too, get ready and be prepared — spiritually, emotionally, physically, financially, and in every other possible way?
   
  5  These prophecies are some of the most interesting and important descriptions of End Times events in all of the Bible. Unfortunately, too few people in the world are aware of them, or have read them, much less studied them carefully.
   
  6  May the Lord bless you and reveal Himself and His heart to you as you get yourself ready for the prophecies coming our way.

Really?  Russia, Turkey, etc attacked Israel?   Turkey was even on friendly terms with Israel at the time; that has only been changing recently.

I am not sure which objection paid less attention to what is being posted

As the forces of the Russian dictator (Gog) and his military coalition — including Iran, Libya, Algeria, Sudan, Turkey and other key Islamic nations — converges against the State of Israel in the last days, the Hebrew Prophet Ezekiel tells us that at the last moment when there seems to be know hope for Israeli Jews the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is going to supernaturally intervene.

That happened in 1973. Are you saying that Nixon was God?

Oops!

The Bible does not tell us exactly how this will happen, but it clearly describes a supernatural judgment. This is not a war started by the Israeli Defense Forces. These are not missiles from the Israeli Air Force. There no evidence in the text of Israelis defending themselves. Perhaps they are engaging in diplomacy. Perhaps they are hoping for the U.S. or the U.N. other nations to intervene. Whatever the case, the God of Israel steps in and defends Israel Himself, raining fire and brimstone down on the enemy forces and utterly destroying them.
As the forces of the Russian dictator (Gog) and his military coalition — including Iran, Libya, Algeria, Sudan, Turkey and other key Islamic nations — converges against the State of Israel in the last days, the Hebrew Prophet Ezekiel tells us that at the last moment when there seems to be know hope for Israeli Jews the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is going to supernaturally intervene.

Carry on talking to no one but yourself rigon.   You're like the little girl having a tea party with her stuffed animals....except she knows that her playtime is full of fairy tales.

    Could Israel currently be secure enough to fulfill this prophetic prerequisite? Honestly, I am not sure. Perhaps events soon will lead Israelis to being and feeling even more secure. But there is no question that even with emerging new threats on the horizon, Israelis feel more secure today than ever before its their modern State’s existence.
    .
    Given the fact that the major End Times prophecies of Ezekiel 36 and 37 have essentially come true in our lifetime, does this mean that we will see Ezekiel 38 and 39 come true in our lifetime as well? To me, it is too soon to say so definitively. Certainly we are seeing geopolitical events unfold in recent decades and in recent years that are strikingly consistent with what the Bible describes as preparations essential for the “War of Gog and Magog.” So we should be ready. We should be prepared — not caught off guard — if events accelerate in the near future. But we must also remember that the Lord in His sovereignty could also decide to delay events for quite some time for His own purposes.
    .
    That said, it should be noted that when the Russian dictator finishes building his military coalition in Israel and begins to move his forces to surround Israel in the “last days,” Ezekiel gives us no indication that any country will come to Israel’s defense. There are not indications that the United Nations, or the European Union, or NATO will defend Israel. Nor is there any indication that the United States will defend Israel. Rather, Israel will be — and will feel — all alone in the world.

Next, I will describe what the Bible tells us will happen to the forces of Gog and Magog.

Now, back to the prophecy and its analysis: It could be reasonably argued that Israel is living more securely today than at any other time in its 63 years. The Israeli Defense Forces are widely considered the strongest and most effective ground fighting force in the Middle East. The Israeli Air Force is widely considered dominant in the skies. Israel has peace treaties with two major neighbors, Egypt and Jordan (though the future of the treaty with Egypt is increasingly in question). Yasser Arafat is gone. Saddam Hussein is gone. Osama bin Laden is gone. Palestinian suicide bombings are not a daily part of Israeli life since 2004. Rockets are occassionally fired from Gaza at Israeli civilians living in the south, but this is not nearly as bad as it was prior to Operation Cast Lead in January 2009. Moreover, Israel has just deployed a short-range rocket defense system called “Iron Dome” that is very effective. Meanwhile, Israel has submarines, ballistic missiles, and first rate intelligence services in her defense. Israel has also enjoyed decades of a close strategic partnership with the United States, has a strong and vibrant economy, and is widely believed to have defensive nuclear weapons, though the government maintains a policy of “strategic ambiguity” on the subject, neither confirming nor denying the existence of those weapons.

But while the Bible clearly explains that the Lord will bring the Jewish people back to the Land of Israel and allow them to reclaim their God-given ownership of the Land, nowhere in the Bible are Jews (or any group of people) given a license to commit injustice. To the contrary, the Bible teaches Israel to love her neighbors (Leviticus 19:18 and Matthew 19:19). The Bible also teaches Israel to love her neighbors and pray for those who persecute them (Matthew 5:44). The Jews do have rights to the ownership of the Land, but they also have responsibilities to govern justly and compassionately, in accordance with the Scriptures. In Leviticus 19:33-34, for example, the Lord says: “When a stranger [non-Jew] resides with you in your land,  you shall not do him wrong. The stranger who resides with you shall be to  you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the Lord your God.”