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Topic: It's Happening .... The secrets of 21 inc revealed, and its what we hoped for. - page 3. (Read 11620 times)

hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Sounds like I'll be giving toasters to my whole family for Xmas and all the coins will be mine!  Muabahahahahah

And this toaster scenario would be the equivalent to having the grille of your oven on 24/7, and you just put bread under when you want toast?

There is always the idea of value added form other things but the Blockparty social media, they state you can view your friends purchase histories. Seems odd, why would anyone take part under these conditions. How would a bank fare if it released an account where all your friends could review your purchase history?  Cheesy

This idea seems very naive to me. But for the millions they've raised, they must have something up their sleeves.
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
Sounds like I'll be giving toasters to my whole family for Xmas and all the coins will be mine!  Muabahahahahah
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1082
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
So the chips will use energy additional to a normal device or are they designed to work within the "energy footprint" of existing devices i.e. no net energy increase?

The latter doesn't seem likely.

It probably wouldnt make it worth creating the asics and the pcb needed for it.

Or will a really massive production be able to bring production costs down so far?
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
So the chips will use energy additional to a normal device or are they designed to work within the "energy footprint" of existing devices i.e. no net energy increase?

The latter doesn't seem likely.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1082
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile


How? I dont get it yet. Is there a business model that could be worth it for bitcoin? If you mean those stations being miners then i think that specialized miners still will have an advantage in price. So i dont see why this might be related.

We know that Qualcomm invested in 21 Inc. We also know that they are interested in and are developing millions of micro-stations to boost their network coverage and bandwidth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p2suMVsKow&feature=youtu.be

The question is who is going to buy their micro stations or pay the electricity and why would they? It would be ridiculous for them to require one for their devices.

Thus one can speculate that they may be interested in having 21 deploy millions of ASIC appliances for free where 2 extra chips are embedded one for mining BTC thus affording 21 to give away the appliances and the other own being a microstation for qualcomm where qualcomm subsidizes the price in exchange for cheaper bandwidth.

Interesting since WLAN and co are normally enabled all the time. But still economically probably not viable.

I really would like to know their idea. Either they have a really good idea we did not think about, they lied about the investment funds they received or they dealt with persons that dont know bitcoin.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
An article that's not based on the Alphaville piece, painting a rather different picture: Inside 21's Plans to Bring Bitcoin to the Masses

Wow, Okay. I changed my mind. If this really is what they're planning, this is NOT good for the general public. It would totally suck.

legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 3014
Welt Am Draht
An article that's not based on the Alphaville piece, painting a rather different picture: Inside 21's Plans to Bring Bitcoin to the Masses

That's a bit more like it.

This sentence in particular stood out for me - "By the time its chips were to be embedded into Internet of Things (IoT) devices, 21 projected its cost to produce 1 BTC could be as low as $7.45."

I wonder what their projections are as the block reward dwindles towards a trickle in the years to come.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
FUN > ROI
An article that's not based on the Alphaville piece, painting a rather different picture: Inside 21's Plans to Bring Bitcoin to the Masses
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
What really stuns me about these devices is the security implications. 

You realize we're talking about a box controlled by someone else, with its own network access and sensors and probably also attached to your own home network, sitting inside your home? 

Hello? 

Does this sound like a Bad Idea to anyone else?

These chips are an absolute plum of a target for anybody who wants to do REALLY invasive snooping. And I would guarantee that those capabilities will be baked in; it is simply too profitable for these guys to not do. 
If you're worried, don't use the product. It's really that simple. For those who think the benefit outweighs the potential cons, they'll use it. That's all.
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1129
What really stuns me about these devices is the security implications. 

You realize we're talking about a box controlled by someone else, with its own network access and sensors and probably also attached to your own home network, sitting inside your home? 

Hello? 

Does this sound like a Bad Idea to anyone else?

These chips are an absolute plum of a target for anybody who wants to do REALLY invasive snooping. And I would guarantee that those capabilities will be baked in; it is simply too profitable for these guys to not do. 
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509


How? I dont get it yet. Is there a business model that could be worth it for bitcoin? If you mean those stations being miners then i think that specialized miners still will have an advantage in price. So i dont see why this might be related.

We know that Qualcomm invested in 21 Inc. We also know that they are interested in and are developing millions of micro-stations to boost their network coverage and bandwidth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p2suMVsKow&feature=youtu.be

The question is who is going to buy their micro stations or pay the electricity and why would they? It would be ridiculous for them to require one for their devices.

Thus one can speculate that they may be interested in having 21 deploy millions of ASIC appliances for free where 2 extra chips are embedded one for mining BTC thus affording 21 to give away the appliances and the other own being a microstation for qualcomm where qualcomm subsidizes the price in exchange for cheaper bandwidth.

IMO a better solution would be letting people buy those devices and offering cell service to anyone who pays btc.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 501


How? I dont get it yet. Is there a business model that could be worth it for bitcoin? If you mean those stations being miners then i think that specialized miners still will have an advantage in price. So i dont see why this might be related.

We know that Qualcomm invested in 21 Inc. We also know that they are interested in and are developing millions of micro-stations to boost their network coverage and bandwidth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p2suMVsKow&feature=youtu.be

The question is who is going to buy their micro stations or pay the electricity and why would they? It would be ridiculous for them to require one for their devices.

Thus one can speculate that they may be interested in having 21 deploy millions of ASIC appliances for free where 2 extra chips are embedded one for mining BTC thus affording 21 to give away the appliances and the other own being a microstation for qualcomm where qualcomm subsidizes the price in exchange for cheaper bandwidth.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1082
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile

Does they speak about bitcoin too or only about a technique already widely used by big ISPs? I mean that normal persons allow other persons of the same ISP using their WLAN. So that the customers can have net outside often enough too.

Im not a native english speaker so i might have missed something.

they are not talking about bitcoin in this video. but it makes sense to see that video in that context.
[/quote

How? I dont get it yet. Is there a business model that could be worth it for bitcoin? If you mean those stations being miners then i think that specialized miners still will have an advantage in price. So i dont see why this might be related.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1011
In Satoshi I Trust

Does they speak about bitcoin too or only about a technique already widely used by big ISPs? I mean that normal persons allow other persons of the same ISP using their WLAN. So that the customers can have net outside often enough too.

Im not a native english speaker so i might have missed something.

they are not talking about bitcoin in this video. but it makes sense to see that video in that context.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1082
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile

Does they speak about bitcoin too or only about a technique already widely used by big ISPs? I mean that normal persons allow other persons of the same ISP using their WLAN. So that the customers can have net outside often enough too.

Im not a native english speaker so i might have missed something.
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1129

Hm.  There is a place to go with this now that I think about it, but it's a little weird.

With current process technology, if you are willing to design for half the speed, you can do it for a quarter of the power.  And if you're willing to go a quarter of the speed, you can do it for one-sixteenth of the power, and so on.

It sounds like if 21 wants to integrate small-scale mining into a host of consumer products, they're going to need tiny mining rigs that run on just a watt or two - but those rigs, although much slower, could be drastically more *efficient* in hashes produced per power consumed than what's filling up server farms today.

If you take a 200w mining chip and then design for slower speed - half speed is 50w, quarter speed is 12.5w, 1/8 speed is 3.25 watts.  The payoff would be very slow, but positive relative to the hashes/power tradeoff that miners are doing now.  A fair number of the things we have in our homes consume 3.25 watts just in standby currents to keep a little LED on and a little timer running and their program memory refreshed, etc... 

Of course, equilibrium will be reached; whether the market is saturated by 21 inc's devices or whether miners replace their current infrastructure with similarly slow/cool chips, ROI on the more efficient devices will approach zero just as surely as it already has for USB sticks.
hero member
Activity: 508
Merit: 500
Jahaha
http://www.ibtimes.com/21-inc-secret-bitcoin-startup-raises-116m-latest-funding-round-1842374
http://www.coindesk.com/21-record-116-million-funding-all-star-investors/

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/21e6-llc-secretive-asic-manufacturer-that-raised-5-million-334759

Secretive startup 21E6, another mining-machine seller, is believed to be backed by some of the wealthiest people in Silicon Valley; its co-founder is Balaji Srinivasan, a former Stanford University professor and data-mining expert.


https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/21e6

$116M / Venture
Mar 10, 2015
Investors:
Peter Thiel
Qualcomm Ventures
Data Collective
Khosla Ventures
Yuan Capital
RRE Ventures
Andreessen Horowitz

$5.1M / Series A
Nov 17, 2013
Investors:
Winklevoss Capital

That Qualcomm investment is what sticks out.




This is quite interesting. Has Qualcomm ever showed any interest in building miners or even Bitcoin ? Is it their first investment ? I always thought ASIC manufacturing is just for mid-size hardware factories.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509
Quote
21 is looking for an exceptional hardware engineer with demonstrable experience in designing ASICs that have been shipped at scale and expert knowledge of industry-standard design tools. You'll work with both internal technical teams and external customers on integrating our technology into novel Bitcoin-related products.

If it was another hardware Wallet (Already plenty of those and unlikely to attract so much VC capital so quickly) than the job specification wouldn't indicate integrating Internal ASIC technology in with multiple products and working with external partners.

It's safe to assume that they are working on a mining chip because of this: "Working with cutting-edge process technologies (sub-32 nm)"

There's no reason to use the cutting edge process tech for anything that is not used all the time.

As for the statement you quoted, I don't think that's evidence that they are integrating their ASIC's in appliances. I think it's more likely that the "bitcoin-related products" are just miners and the "external customers" are chip integrators. (building their own farms using 21 inc chips)
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