Topic: It's Happening .... The secrets of 21 inc revealed, and its what we hoped for. - page 7. (Read 11654 times)

let's say that every house can performs 20 x 5 = 100 gh/s, let's say that there are an average of 3 people per house, and let's assume 1B house

so we get 100B of gh/s, equal to 100 exabyte, not bad i guess, much higher than the current total hash

Someone with some sense.

Most others seem to think that "this is what Bitcoin needs".....

Something tells me that 21 Inc is gonna pull a scam.

Something like this is not feasible and I am surprised big names invested in this.

The problem is people generally have a cheaper source of heat than electricity. Back when I started mining altcoins in Jan. 2014, we were having a wildly cold winter in Illinois, spiking propane prices through the roof to the point that the governor waived all restrictions on propane delivery truckers. So I was glad to be heating half my house with my rig instead of paying $5-6/gallon of propane at its peak. But I also did the math and realized my breakeven point was $2.71/gallon for propane, and normal propane prices around here were under $2. So once the altcoin market withered it no longer made sense to mine, even this past winter. The propane was just cheaper. Natural gas is cheaper yet, wood and corn stove heating is real cheap, and increasing numbers of folks have geothermal or other low-cost systems.

So yeah, some people will see the benefit of it, or won't do the math and think they are benefiting by getting bitcoin miners. But they will have to hunt for those people. Until I can see some math on their projected earnings/device, I've got to be skeptical. I do like the potential for decentralization though, I admit.

Haven't read the whole thread but wouldn't this be perfect for renters that don't have to pay electric bills?

Seems like another IPO scam, just like Ethereum. Vitalik must be enjoying all that BTC that he criticized. As of right now the only worth IPO investing at was Maidsafe, the roadmap is going on great.

This isn't necessarily a ripoff.  This is for people who'd be using the power to generate heat anyway.  Any of these appliances that doesn't require the generation of heat for its own sake though, is going to be a dead loss when generating heat for the production of bitcoin.

I'm kind of liking this for some purposes, though mostly silly ones.  For example England now has a law that says you can't have hair dryers that are over 1 KWatt because that's a waste of electricity.  But if you can have a Bitcoin mining machine that, as a side effect, dries your hair ....  

Also?  Unlike a lot of the crap which people have released on the consumer market that wasn't really possible to secure against people hacking it to their own purposes, this is *COMPLETELY* secureable.  

It doesn't require simultaneous delivery of and obscurement of information, such as all the copy-protection crap.  It doesn't require keys the customer could use to spoof it to be present in the device, like so many other kinds of crypto snake oil.  I could easily produce these devices using a public key to check signatures on getwork and encrypt responses, bake it directly into silicon, and even if you reverse-engineer the silicon and extract the public key, you couldn't use it without the private key to get the device (or any other device using that key pair) talking to a different pool.  

As the consumer, your choices are to let it have network access, or not.  

Interestingly, if you let it have network access, and its communications are encrypted, there's no way to know what it's communicating FROM INSIDE YOUR HOUSE.  The power budget for hacking wifi passwords isn't much different from the power budget for bitcoin mining, for example, and a lot of these "appliances"  have subassemblies which provide side channels that could be used as microphones, etc.  

Nope.

It was actually discussed before - but I guess this thread gained better traction   Gotta use clickbaity titles.. "You Won't Believe What 21 Inc. Are Planning For Bitcoin!"

Is there any proof that any of this is true? I can't find a shred of it.

What about getting that free TV, or whatever, then rip out the ASIC?


If they gave out free laptops, I'd totally get one.

I don't think Antarctica has cheap electricity, though.

I don't know why everyone's hung up heating shit is even in the discussion. I doubt the intent is to integrate a 2Th/s miner in a fuckin' toaster, moreso a collection of 20GH/s devices in multiple appliances in households across the world. Imagine living in a world where literally every one of your neighbors and friends is contributing to the security of the BTC network and not even thinking about it.

I'm for this.  I really hope this happens.

....and the idea has got sold to raise anough money for them. The question is... will we see an execution or see the same fate as of ethereum ? If they come to public to raise more money without the product then I'd doubt their intention.

Hard to see how this idea will work for them. It really only makes sense for devices that we _want_ to produce heat (toasters, water heaters, space heaters, hair dryers, etc.) Getting a cheap TV that spews out excess heat during the summer months, driving up AC costs, would be silly.

Now for heat producing appliances, how many are used a high percentage of the time? In my household of six I doubt we average even 3 minutes/day using the toaster since we don't use it that often. Hard to believe that any ASICs packed into it will ever ROI if they are barely ever on (and network difficulty keeps going up).

So that leaves things like space heaters and water heaters. I guess I could conceivably see those making sense, if they can convince the consumer to go through the hassle of setting up the wireless connections or whatever that will be required to run them. I suspect when real world trials start they are going to be _very_ disappointed by the hashrate they get from their big giveaways.

It was a fascinating idea though....

I think you'll find there's miners in South America, Africa, Australia and New Zealand, too  Not sure about Antarctica.  Could be a nice PR stunt for Bitmain though

How do they marketing this toaster ?  I have never used any toaster since 10 years ago 

There is a great potential in heating devices at least 2000W or more, but that will raise the difficulty in winter and drop it in summer 

Well, I suppose you can say that we are speculating based on what we know so far.
Then again, only time will tell what this thing truly is.

i see too many assumptions in this thread. Or maybe you guys know something I don't.


1. Are the applicances going to make use of the heat generated by the ASIC, or, are they just bundling an ASIC with a random appliance?

2. Can you turn it off whenever you want?

It seems that people automatically assume that you can't turn it off or something. Which, in a sense is obviously not true since you can just unplug it. But assuming it's something that shouldn't be unplugged often like, I dunno, lights or something, you guys are assuming that it'll run forever costing you electricity.

If you can just turn it off whenever you want, then it's not really costing you electricity, since you would've spent that electricity anyway. Unless, of course, the ASIC uses additional electricity than what the appliance otherwise would use.

Anyway, too many assumptions, too many unknowns.

if this stupid idea to materialize, it has the potential to worsen the reputation of Bitcoin in people's

So The Register writes an article about an article from the Financial Times.

One of the opening lines from the FT is "All we do know is that the company, headed by Matthew Pauker, has raised more than $116m worth of venture funding"

There are no facts, no quotes from anyone from 21 or anyone who has a bleeding clue.

Their guesswork sounds like a pretty dumb idea. It's worth calling it a dumb idea if the people they're guessing about actually confirm it.

Yes, if I know about the extra charges, and let's not forget the potential dangers, then I wont.
I would rather pay that little extra and know that I can sleep more peaceful.