Quote from: radiumsoup
This is not the same as making profit. Your upfront cost is realized immediately when purchasing your share of the pool of risked capital, the same as purchasing mining equipment.
No, it is not. Not even nearly.
Topic: Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game - page 165. (Read 435360 times)
This is the best done bitcoin gambling site I have seen so far, but there is a problem with the game. It becomes boring very quickly. Why not to make it like real dice? I mean, you make a bet, then casino rolls first, then you need to beat this outcome. The higher number you beat, the larger you win factor (up to some maximum). This would make the win factor a random number with higher probability for low numbers and lower probability for high numbers. This way x10 or x20 wins would eventually happen. Would this be cool?
Instead of getting snarky, you might boost your credibility by admitting that your earlier statement was poorly worded at best, rather than attacking someone for rightfully pointing that out. (I also took a beating from the whale at first before my fortunes turned.)
I think the sense of what you are saying is that the upside of J-D is you don't need to recover your investment cost before you profit; the potential for profit is immediate.
Sorry, the investment issue is not on my agenda anymore. I f..ed my investment up in gambling yesterday.
Sure - you *might* make profit 'immediately' - but you might make a loss immediately.
Thank you for reminder, Capitan Obvious. Let me in turn remind you, that this is true for almost any investment.
Instead of getting snarky, you might boost your credibility by admitting that your earlier statement was poorly worded at best, rather than attacking someone for rightfully pointing that out. (I also took a beating from the whale at first before my fortunes turned.)
I think the sense of what you are saying is that the upside of J-D is you don't need to recover your investment cost before you profit; the potential for profit is immediate.
This game is great!
Why bother with mining if you can invest into gambling and make profit instantly?
Why bother with mining if you can invest into gambling and make profit instantly?
Invest
Instant profit
Pick one.
I mean, in contrast to mining, you start to make profit immediately. You do not need to return equipment and electricity costs.
Wow. Aren't you in for a shock when the maths does what maths does!
Just so you know - at one point I was 15% *down* on my initial investment after just a few days. (Whales won big)
Sure - you *might* make profit 'immediately' - but you might make a loss immediately.
In the long run though - yes, the 1% edge will work in your favour. I'm now back at 10% in the positive.
quite. "You start to make profit immediately?", hmmmm.
I'm sorry, what are we arguing about?
Mining != Just-Dice
/thread
Mining != Just-Dice
/thread
Quote from: radiumsoup
This is not the same as making profit. Your upfront cost is realized immediately when purchasing your share of the pool of risked capital, the same as purchasing mining equipment.
No, it is not. Not even nearly.So, you admit that it it isn't the same. This difference makes difference for me.
Sure - you *might* make profit 'immediately' - but you might make a loss immediately.
Thank you for reminder, Capitan Obvious. Let me in turn remind you, that this is true for almost any investment.
Quote from: radiumsoup
This is not the same as making profit. Your upfront cost is realized immediately when purchasing your share of the pool of risked capital, the same as purchasing mining equipment.
No, it is not. Not even nearly.Look, if you had said that at this moment in time, you prefer gambling sites as a better return on investment for your risk tolerance, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation, because that's your opinion. But you made an assertion that mining is worse than investing in gambling sites because gambling sites give you instant profits, and that's simply not true.
I mean, I'm not trying to bust your balls or anything, man - it's just when I see stuff like that, I have this compulsion to correct it for the sake of other readers. It's totally OK for you to have that opinion about mining outright vs. JD - I actually share that opinion, in fact - but you can't go around saying stuff the way you did without expecting at least a little blowback on the logic from time to time.
This game is great!
Why bother with mining if you can invest into gambling and make profit instantly?
Why bother with mining if you can invest into gambling and make profit instantly?
Invest
Instant profit
Pick one.
I mean, in contrast to mining, you start to make profit immediately. You do not need to return equipment and electricity costs.
Wow. Aren't you in for a shock when the maths does what maths does!
Just so you know - at one point I was 15% *down* on my initial investment after just a few days. (Whales won big)
Sure - you *might* make profit 'immediately' - but you might make a loss immediately.
In the long run though - yes, the 1% edge will work in your favour. I'm now back at 10% in the positive.
When you send BTC to just-dice, you start to take risk immediately.
Yeah, I know that. I also risk much more when I gamble.
Quote
This is not the same as making profit. Your upfront cost is realized immediately when purchasing your share of the pool of risked capital, the same as purchasing mining equipment.
No, it is not. Not even nearly.
Dude, don't try to bulshit me. I am not interested in your theoretical insinuations
I wasn't. And I wasn't speaking theoretically, I was speaking practically.Quote
My point is simple: you submit btc to just-dice, you start make profit immediately. No upfront costs. I am not going to run neither a web site nor ASIC manufacturing and farming system. I am just happy that my bitcoins not only grow in value, but in number too, and that is almost for free.
You lose a bit of perspective when you oversimplify like that, but I'll play along and try and put it into the terms you're thinking of to make it easier. When you send BTC to just-dice, you start to take risk immediately. This is not the same as making profit. Your upfront cost is realized immediately when purchasing your share of the pool of risked capital, the same as purchasing mining equipment. The liquidation time is considerably faster (almost instant with JD), certainly, which means that you can jump out the very second you get ahead, if that's what you want to do. But that wasn't your assertion. You said that you could invest into gambling and make money instantly. I'm simply pointing out the flawed logic. You won't deny that ASIC mining have been *extremely* profitable for the very few lucky owners of early ASIC.
Everybody is trying to catch the small profitability window, so they enter in the arms race. Its true that the vast majority of newbie miners are blinded by *impossible* returns, but that does not mean that ASICminer or Avalon batch #1 customers didn't do an excellent ROI.
Investing in mining right now? Pretty much pointless IMO, I agree.
Yes, this is what I am talking about.
Mmmm... Did you know that you can get returns on bank deposits? Still, the risk is very low and thus the return is lowish too, and you still have to commit X amount for X time. The potential profit in mining is *supposed* to be higher, if done right.
Yes, I have bank accounts. Profit is piece of shit there. Problems with mining are a) upfront costs; b) you need to deal with guzzling electricity, heating your house, noisy hardware; c) a window in time since new mining hardware is released until mining with this hardware is not profitable anymore, is damn short.
The potential profit in mining is *supposed* to be higher, if done right.
Source on that? I've never seen a credible source claim that mining is "supposed" to be profitable (the design never addresses profitability). Just loads of idiots assuming that and throwing their BTC away.
You won't deny that ASIC mining have been *extremely* profitable for the very few lucky owners of early ASIC.
Everybody is trying to catch the small profitability window, so they enter in the arms race. Its true that the vast majority of newbie miners are blinded by *impossible* returns, but that does not mean that ASICminer or Avalon batch #1 customers didn't do an excellent ROI.
Investing in mining right now? Pretty much pointless IMO, I agree.
The potential profit in mining is *supposed* to be higher, if done right.
Source on that? I've never seen a credible source claim that mining is "supposed" to be profitable (the design never addresses profitability). Just loads of idiots assuming that and throwing their BTC away.
Sure you do - it's just that the costs are hidden from you in the form of commissions on profit taken by doog. Don't kid yourself - you are paying for upkeep in that you do not get a cut of gross profits, but instead you get a percentage of net.
Commission is applied to profit, not to investment. Investment does not cost me anything except microbitcoin transaction fee. Nothing compared to multi-thousand $ mining rigs.
Those (mining/investing) are two very different things, which are not incompatible, and each one carries their own risks/benefits set.
Specifically: by investing in just-dice, you get a reasonable 1% profit (aprox.), but you need to hold your money for some time in there too, and you are trusting it to a third party.
I know for sure I have more trust in dooglus than in most other "online casinos" around.
Would love to hear your news on any other investment where you DON'T have to trust a third-party or where the profit is immediate. If you can point me to some investment where my cash isn't tied up for any period of time and noone else can steal it then I'd be eternally grateful. And infinitely rich.
Sure you do - it's just that the costs are hidden from you in the form of commissions on profit taken by doog. Don't kid yourself - you are paying for upkeep in that you do not get a cut of gross profits, but instead you get a percentage of net.
Commission is applied to profit, not to investment. This is true either in prepaid costs from a subscription, or a set fee per transaction, or from a percentage deducted on the back end, or from the fact that you're getting a smaller percentage than you would be getting if costs were not a factor in the calculation of the owner's take. It doesn't matter how you think you're getting paid, you are not receiving as much as you would if costs were not factored in. Just because you can't see the costs deducted doesn't mean they aren't a factor.
Quote from: yvv
Investment does not cost me anything except microbitcoin transaction fee. Nothing compared to multi-thousand $ mining rigs.
The cost of running a website is not comparable to the cost of running an ASIC manufacturing and farming system. Then again, the profits are not comparable, either.Dude, don't try to bulshit me. I am not interested in your theoretical insinuations
My point is simple: you submit btc to just-dice, you start make profit immediately. No upfront costs. I am not going to run neither a web site nor ASIC manufacturing and farming system. I am just happy that my bitcoins not only grow in value, but in number too, and that is almost for free.
Mmmm... Did you know that you can get returns on bank deposits? Still, the risk is very low and thus the return is lowish too, and you still have to commit X amount for X time. The potential profit in mining is *supposed* to be higher, if done right.
Those (mining/investing) are two very different things, which are not incompatible, and each one carries their own risks/benefits set.
Specifically: by investing in just-dice, you get a reasonable 1% profit (aprox.), but you need to hold your money for some time in there too, and you are trusting it to a third party.
I know for sure I have more trust in dooglus than in most other "online casinos" around.
Of course, I understand all the risks.
Sure you do - it's just that the costs are hidden from you in the form of commissions on profit taken by doog. Don't kid yourself - you are paying for upkeep in that you do not get a cut of gross profits, but instead you get a percentage of net.
Commission is applied to profit, not to investment. This is true either in prepaid costs from a subscription, or a set fee per transaction, or from a percentage deducted on the back end, or from the fact that you're getting a smaller percentage than you would be getting if costs were not a factor in the calculation of the owner's take. It doesn't matter how you think you're getting paid, you are not receiving as much as you would if costs were not factored in. Just because you can't see the costs deducted doesn't mean they aren't a factor.
Quote from: yvv
Investment does not cost me anything except microbitcoin transaction fee. Nothing compared to multi-thousand $ mining rigs.
The cost of running a website is not comparable to the cost of running an ASIC manufacturing and farming system. Then again, the profits are not comparable, either.Dude, don't try to bulshit me. I am not interested in your theoretical insinuations
My point is simple: you submit btc to just-dice, you start make profit immediately. No upfront costs. I am not going to run neither a web site nor ASIC manufacturing and farming system. I am just happy that my bitcoins not only grow in value, but in number too, and that is almost for free.
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